NFR Barcelona humiliated, what will the consequences be?

[Bassey the warrior]

Both for Barcelona and for football in general.
I didn't watch the game but nevertheless I feel sufficiently knoweldgeable and/or pompous to discuss the implications of their defeat.

Firstly, they need Messi to make their tactics work. Messi plays the false number 9 role, drifting across the pitch with no defined role and they simply don't have another player who can do this as effectively. Without him they lack any real direction. I think they have gone rather stale over the past couple of years, they were a shadow of their former selves last season.
Can they continue with the same tactics simply by bringing in some good players, or do they need to reinvent themselves?

I personally think they can, Borussia Dortmund play a very similar style but were far more effective. The only noticeable difference is that they do play with an out and out striker. Barcelona need to be willing to have a plan B, namely to play with a recognized striker and adapt their game to accommodate him.
This poses a further question, is the false number 9 dead? It's worked well for Swansea this season with Michu and Barcelona have still dominated La Liga, but it is difficult to make it work because by dropping into midfield to aid possession, the said false number 9 fails to provide an outlet for quick attacks thus making the attacks easier to defend. Notably Michu and Swansea have struggled for goals of late, this could simply be the 40 points effect or it could be a sign that they've been worked out. The real test will be see if they can be as effective next season.
We have tried this Berbatov and Ruiz and it has admittedly failed. I feel that Ruiz and Berba are better suited to playing more advanced roles and hope that if we can sign someone like Huddlestone they will be able to do that.
Why has this failed? Well the difference between us and Swansea is off the ball movement, Michu makes superb runs and Berbatov most of the time doesn't, although he's started doing so in the past few games. Also the wingers make superb runs behind the lines and they have three creative central midfielders to supplement the attacks.

I hope that the tiki-taka style will not die because of Barcelona's failure, I'm a huge fan of it.

I know it's a bloated thread but it's interesting to think about.

[God The Mechanic]

The problems this season with Barca are in large part due to the lack of manager for huge portions of the season.  That combined with an unsettled back 4 in recent months, Villa not fully recovering from his broken leg 18 months ago and Pedro and Alexis not being up to it.
Remove a functional defence and any support attackers from any team they will struggle - the fact that Barca have done so well domestically this year is pretty staggering considering all that.

Oh, and Xavi has been playing on borrowed time this year.  He's starting to look like he has hardly had a break (other than through injury) for nearly 5 years.

[Lighthouse]

Well reasoned out and interesting and I think the a huge question in where football and the style of the game is going. As important as the 'wingless wonders' and the 'total football' style that dominated the game at different times. I feel teams that try it are not always ready for it and haven't the personel to play the game that way.

I am not a fan of the false number 9. I am outdated I know. But the game becomes less exciting to my eyes with this tiki taka style unless you are watching the players at the top of their game playing it. I prefer the game when it is less dominated by possession of the ball and more influenced by penalty area duals.

Very much a modern against an older style of football. No doubt the same way some fans felt about the Dutch total football style. Also very much why I feel frustrated in watching much of the modern game. However a topic that will dominate the game for a few years.

[God The Mechanic]

I am not a fan of the false number 9. I am outdated I know. But the game becomes less exciting to my eyes with this tiki taka style unless you are watching the players at the top of their game playing it. I prefer the game when it is less dominated by possession of the ball and more influenced by penalty area duals.

That's the thing, it's a VERY unforgiving style of play.  It's so based on incredibly accurate and intricate passes, that if you're even slightly off your game it's likely to end badly.  If you're more that slightly (or just not as good) then it's brutal to watch.

[fulhamfever]

LMFAO they can rely on there B team who are in the playoff spots in the Division below. 

[VB]

Perhaps UEFA will have to design a new set of rules (again) so Barca can rule football (again)
Ver Spron Dirk Leahman Technic....Im glad the Germans knocked the Spanish down a peg or two

[Bassey the warrior]

The problems this season with Barca are in large part due to the lack of manager for huge portions of the season.  That combined with an unsettled back 4 in recent months, Villa not fully recovering from his broken leg 18 months ago and Pedro and Alexis not being up to it.
Remove a functional defence and any support attackers from any team they will struggle - the fact that Barca have done so well domestically this year is pretty staggering considering all that.

Oh, and Xavi has been playing on borrowed time this year.  He's starting to look like he has hardly had a break (other than through injury) for nearly 5 years.

That's interesting. But I don't think it's just that. They looked very poor at times during the Champions League last year when with an almost full squad and their manager at the helm.It was down to tactics.

[Forever Fulham]

Moose, I think you are right about the importance of off the ball movement--it's a weakness at Fulham right now.  To be fair to Barca, way too many key players were injured and didn't play.  Makes a difference at that level.

[cmg]

I'd tend to put Barcelona's 'decline' more down to the passage of time than anything else (not having the services of one of the all-time greats can't have helped, but that's only short term). The system and the players needed to play that system get a bit worn round the edges and the new kid on the block takes over.

I wouldn't worry too much about Barca, though. They, probably more than any other team, have shown, over the years, an ability to reinvent themselves. They have also been very bold and innovative about it. They have never been afraid of trying new managers, systems, players.

They are particularly well placed financially and have a fine junior system. If this is an end to one period of domination another will be along soon. From Kubala to Messi they have always gone for class and have always played with style.

[Riverside]

Some points from this thread

1) Swansea are always being touted as being so much better than us. They are 2 points above us !! ( and we could / should well have drawn when we played them at home leaving us 2 points ahead ). I do envy the Cup win

2) Barcelona will still walk away with the Spanish League and did reach the Champions semis. While their manager has been in hospital for much of the season .

3) Not only was Messi injured but so was Pujol .

4) They still need a Plan B and need to be refreshed. They will be back !

5) Give Bayern some credit . They are the best team in Europe this year.

[Bassey the warrior]

Some points from this thread

1) Swansea are always being touted as being so much better than us. They are 2 points above us !! ( and we could / should well have drawn when we played them at home leaving us 2 points ahead ). I do envy the Cup win

2) Barcelona will still walk away with the Spanish League and did reach the Champions semis. While their manager has been in hospital for much of the season .

3) Not only was Messi injured but so was Pujol .

4) They still need a Plan B and need to be refreshed. They will be back !

5) Give Bayern some credit . They are the best team in Europe this year.

Swansea may not have the results to show for it but most of their performances have been superior to ours. They play sexy football, I can only wish we played the way they do.

[Jack Fulham]

Wait for Messi to get fully fit.

[Jack Fulham]

Some points from this thread

1) Swansea are always being touted as being so much better than us. They are 2 points above us !! ( and we could / should well have drawn when we played them at home leaving us 2 points ahead ). I do envy the Cup win

2) Barcelona will still walk away with the Spanish League and did reach the Champions semis. While their manager has been in hospital for much of the season .

3) Not only was Messi injured but so was Pujol .

4) They still need a Plan B and need to be refreshed. They will be back !

5) Give Bayern some credit . They are the best team in Europe this year.

Swansea may not have the results to show for it but most of their performances have been superior to ours. They play sexy football, I can only wish we played the way they do.

If retaining the ball is sexy.

[Forever Fulham]

Swansea plays with courage.  Maybe it's a reflection of debt on the books.  They can afford to go down, as they didn't amass the amount of debt this club has, getting to the premier league in a more 'organic' way than Fulham did.  MAF has, what, $200M in loans to the club?  I wonder if, living under that loan burden, and being so dependent upon staying 'up' for our split of the crucial TV revenues, we play it safer than we might otherwise, while others feel free to take bigger risks.  We get the ball to midfield, go side to side with it, then back to Mark in the back when under any pressure.  Swansea is determined to get that ball in the final third.  No, that theory makes no sense.  After all, corporate shells aside, didn't MAF really just loan himself the $200M, standing ready to forgive the debt if need be?  He's reported to have so many more hundreds of millions at his disposal.  Have we spent the full proceeds from selling Dempsey and Dembele on new players, and in persuading current players to stay?  I don't think so.  I think the club hoarded a chunk of it.  All that talk about being the Manchester of the South.  He's only, maybe, 20 million pounds from getting two or three game changers on the team, and keeping a few loaners--which would free up and reinvigorate Berbatov and transform Ruiz's game--Mladen's too, probably.   But perhaps the club has, like actuarials,  gone through the risks of spending yet still getting relegated down, and has determined that it's better to run on a shoestring payroll budget and try to survive each year, rather than spend big and still risk being sent down. There, I've talked myself into a complete circle.  Never mind.

[nevzter]

Swansea plays with courage.  Maybe it's a reflection of debt on the books.  They can afford to go down, as they didn't amass the amount of debt this club has, getting to the premier league in a more 'organic' way than Fulham did.  MAF has, what, $200M in loans to the club?  I wonder if, living under that loan burden, and being so dependent upon staying 'up' for our split of the crucial TV revenues, we play it safer than we might otherwise, while others feel free to take bigger risks.  We get the ball to midfield, go side to side with it, then back to Mark in the back when under any pressure.  Swansea is determined to get that ball in the final third.  No, that theory makes no sense.  After all, corporate shells aside, didn't MAF really just loan himself the $200M, standing ready to forgive the debt if need be?  He's reported to have so many more hundreds of millions at his disposal.  Have we spent the full proceeds from selling Dempsey and Dembele on new players, and in persuading current players to stay?  I don't think so.  I think the club hoarded a chunk of it.  All that talk about being the Manchester of the South.  He's only, maybe, 20 million pounds from getting two or three game changers on the team, and keeping a few loaners--which would free up and reinvigorate Berbatov and transform Ruiz's game--Mladen's too, probably.   But perhaps the club has, like actuarials,  gone through the risks of spending yet still getting relegated down, and has determined that it's better to run on a shoestring payroll budget and try to survive each year, rather than spend big and still risk being sent down. There, I've talked myself into a complete circle.  Never mind.

I like the cut of your jib.

I like the cut of your jib

[Bassey the warrior]

Swansea plays with courage.  Maybe it's a reflection of debt on the books.  They can afford to go down, as they didn't amass the amount of debt this club has, getting to the premier league in a more 'organic' way than Fulham did.  MAF has, what, $200M in loans to the club?  I wonder if, living under that loan burden, and being so dependent upon staying 'up' for our split of the crucial TV revenues, we play it safer than we might otherwise, while others feel free to take bigger risks.  We get the ball to midfield, go side to side with it, then back to Mark in the back when under any pressure.  Swansea is determined to get that ball in the final third.  No, that theory makes no sense.  After all, corporate shells aside, didn't MAF really just loan himself the $200M, standing ready to forgive the debt if need be?  He's reported to have so many more hundreds of millions at his disposal.  Have we spent the full proceeds from selling Dempsey and Dembele on new players, and in persuading current players to stay?  I don't think so.  I think the club hoarded a chunk of it.  All that talk about being the Manchester of the South.  He's only, maybe, 20 million pounds from getting two or three game changers on the team, and keeping a few loaners--which would free up and reinvigorate Berbatov and transform Ruiz's game--Mladen's too, probably.   But perhaps the club has, like actuarials,  gone through the risks of spending yet still getting relegated down, and has determined that it's better to run on a shoestring payroll budget and try to survive each year, rather than spend big and still risk being sent down. There, I've talked myself into a complete circle.  Never mind.

That was a dizzying post. I agree with much of it though. I think Fulham need to add a few players to make Jol's tactics work, I have no doubt he doesn't want us to be so incredibly slow and toothless. I say keep Berba and Ruiz and add Huddlestone or similar to supplement the creative department and allow the other two to push up. Also sort out a regular starter for the left side of midfield, it's been a real mess this season. I expect Dejagah to progress further and to add goals to his game. I also hope Richardson can stay fit and we can keep Riether, this will give us pace on the flanks.
As for the question marks about Al Fayed's spending policy well that remains to be seen. We don't know what is going on behind the scenes. There are some good free players available this summer so with any luck we'll be able to get some of those in and perhaps buy on marquee player or two very good players as well.

[Bassey the warrior]

Some points from this thread

1) Swansea are always being touted as being so much better than us. They are 2 points above us !! ( and we could / should well have drawn when we played them at home leaving us 2 points ahead ). I do envy the Cup win

2) Barcelona will still walk away with the Spanish League and did reach the Champions semis. While their manager has been in hospital for much of the season .

3) Not only was Messi injured but so was Pujol .

4) They still need a Plan B and need to be refreshed. They will be back !

5) Give Bayern some credit . They are the best team in Europe this year.

Swansea may not have the results to show for it but most of their performances have been superior to ours. They play sexy football, I can only wish we played the way they do.

If retaining the ball is sexy.

They do much more than that. They have a real fluidity about their game, one touch passing, constant off the ball movement. It's a joy to watch.