Can we get this cleared up?

[TWFL]

I know we're all sick to the bone of this.. BUT, it keeps getting brought up and incorrectly imo.
Here's my take on it:

-The board is in control of the money, they say when and who we can sign.

-They are also in control of who goes, for how much and when.

-This means Jol has largely little to no say in it.

-Therefore when it came to Dempsey and Dembele leaving, Jol isn't to be blamed. He will have recommended players and then Mac would have tried to do something. Perhaps Mac tried to gamble and wait to see if Dembele would stay? Jol was told by Dembele he wouldn't be going.. Anyway I don't know but by then it was too little, too late to bring in anyone else.

So can we stop saying that it was Jol's fault and try and find something else to incorrectly stick on him for the next few months please? It's just getting ever so tiresome to read.

[SouthfieldWhite]

This isnt completely true, jol can say who he wants to sell who dosnt fit in his plans, he can also say who he  wants, its then down to the CEO to say what budgit we have and if we can afford a player.

Each club will know how much they can spend and if a player is worth it and in Fulhams case how much they will pay and if it will be a good deal for the club

[TWFL]

This isnt completely true, jol can say who he wants to sell who dosnt fit in his plans, he can also say who he  wants, its then down to the CEO to say what budgit we have and if we can afford a player.

Each club will know how much they can spend and if a player is worth it and in Fulhams case how much they will pay and if it will be a good deal for the club

Ok I did phrase it wrong. I meant that Jol has a say in who we want to buy and sell. But in reality it comes down to the board (mostly on the buying side).

But it has been known that clubs have gone behind managers backs to sell players (not saying it happened here). And in all fairness we had to sell Dembele because of the release clause.

[WayneKerrins]

It comes down to Fayed. He decides when to spend. Let's call it how it is instead of hiding behind the ridiculous notion that the power is with Macintosh and other hired helps.

[HatterDon]

I know we're all sick to the bone of this.. BUT, it keeps getting brought up and incorrectly imo.
Here's my take on it:

-The board is in control of the money, they say when and who we can sign.

-They are also in control of who goes, for how much and when.

-This means Jol has largely little to no say in it.

-Therefore when it came to Dempsey and Dembele leaving, Jol isn't to be blamed. He will have recommended players and then Mac would have tried to do something. Perhaps Mac tried to gamble and wait to see if Dembele would stay? Jol was told by Dembele he wouldn't be going.. Anyway I don't know but by then it was too little, too late to bring in anyone else.

So can we stop saying that it was Jol's fault and try and find something else to incorrectly stick on him for the next few months please? It's just getting ever so tiresome to read.

So ...
Jol's not responsible for who is in the squad.
Jol's not responsible for motivating the players.

So, exactly what IS Jol's contribution to the club? And, of course, just what part of that contribution is he responsible for?

I've seen this argument in the past and, when one of Jol's signings has a good run, we're told that were it not for Jol he wouldn't be at the club.

A little consistency is what I'd like -- mostly from Jol, but also from a lot of the posters here [and I say that will all due respect and a hey nonny nonny].

[JackyFulham90]

I feel sorry for Jol I don't think he has been backed enough but either way this season has been poor

[cebu]

I know we're all sick to the bone of this.. BUT, it keeps getting brought up and incorrectly imo.
Here's my take on it:

-The board is in control of the money, they say when and who we can sign.

-They are also in control of who goes, for how much and when.

-This means Jol has largely little to no say in it.

-Therefore when it came to Dempsey and Dembele leaving, Jol isn't to be blamed. He will have recommended players and then Mac would have tried to do something. Perhaps Mac tried to gamble and wait to see if Dembele would stay? Jol was told by Dembele he wouldn't be going.. Anyway I don't know but by then it was too little, too late to bring in anyone else.

So can we stop saying that it was Jol's fault and try and find something else to incorrectly stick on him for the next few months please? It's just getting ever so tiresome to read.

So ...
Jol's not responsible for who is in the squad.
Jol's not responsible for motivating the players.

So, exactly what IS Jol's contribution to the club? And, of course, just what part of that contribution is he responsible for?

I've seen this argument in the past and, when one of Jol's signings has a good run, we're told that were it not for Jol he wouldn't be at the club.

A little consistency is what I'd like -- mostly from Jol, but also from a lot of the posters here [and I say that will all due respect and a hey nonny nonny].

Signings/spending money is patently MAF & Mac's department - which is pretty much the same as at other clubs.

Getting the available squad to be motivated and perform at the highest level on the playing field is the manager's job. If he can't do this, he has no right to be drawing the salary. This is the same as at other clubs. The question is, does Jol succeed at this on a fairly consistent basis?   092.gif

[RaySmith]

I don't believe all this stuff about the mangaer 'motivating ' the team. If elite, highly paid pro's aren't motivated, then  it's hard to see how they became top players in the first place.

How do you 'motivate' someone anyway? threaten them? reward them? well the players surely have  their own ideas of  being threatened by what bad  results can do for their careers, and  know the rewards of  being successful.

But obviously players can become  demoralised if they think  the team has no chance of   winning games because the manager has the tactics wrong, or the club  doesn't bring in the right players, and the manager does have responsibility to pick the right team , and organise the way it plays - but Jol has been hit by  players  suddenly leaving , and by injuries to a thin squad.

Where would we be without the loanees he has  brought in, though they these are obviously far from ideal, and the team has sometimes had a  shapeless look to it -  a lack of purose and leadership, like a bunch of strangers.

But if i blame anyone - I would blame the lack of financial investment in the team - and this has nothing to do with Jol, and we don't know anything about the whys and wherefores anyway.

[Berserker]

I think it's like a manager's ability to motivate a team in any walk of life. If a manager is well respected, works hard, is firm but fair, rewards where it is due, doesn't have favourites, his team will put in that extra mile for him, they want to please, they want to do well. We have all had managers that we would do anything for because they are such good leaders, then ones that aren't and we just do the bear minimum for the job. Obviously our players are not inspired by Martin Jol

[TWFL]

I know we're all sick to the bone of this.. BUT, it keeps getting brought up and incorrectly imo.
Here's my take on it:

-The board is in control of the money, they say when and who we can sign.

-They are also in control of who goes, for how much and when.

-This means Jol has largely little to no say in it.

-Therefore when it came to Dempsey and Dembele leaving, Jol isn't to be blamed. He will have recommended players and then Mac would have tried to do something. Perhaps Mac tried to gamble and wait to see if Dembele would stay? Jol was told by Dembele he wouldn't be going.. Anyway I don't know but by then it was too little, too late to bring in anyone else.

So can we stop saying that it was Jol's fault and try and find something else to incorrectly stick on him for the next few months please? It's just getting ever so tiresome to read.

So ...
Jol's not responsible for who is in the squad.
Jol's not responsible for motivating the players.

So, exactly what IS Jol's contribution to the club? And, of course, just what part of that contribution is he responsible for?

I've seen this argument in the past and, when one of Jol's signings has a good run, we're told that were it not for Jol he wouldn't be at the club.

A little consistency is what I'd like -- mostly from Jol, but also from a lot of the posters here [and I say that will all due respect and a hey nonny nonny].

Never said that it's not Jol's job to motivate. And neither am I saying is he not responsible for who's in the squad. He'll give a list of who he wants and then the board will try to negotiate a deal and if it doesn't work then they'll move to the next player on that list. So it is his squad but it may not be his 1st choice squad if you see what I mean..

[filham]

Not a lot anyone at the club could have done to prevent Dempsey and Dembele leaving at the end of the window but why on earth wasn't the money used to by two premiership proven replacements on the first day of the January window.

[RaySmith]

I don't think you can compare  being a top pro footballer to a normal job, where, yes, you might go the extra yard for a manager you liked and respected.

Anyway, Jol is an experienced, successful manager, who must have the ability to lead  and  get respect from players, otherwise would he have  lasted in the game, and have the reputation he has?

But surely top footballers  are competitive and motivated just by their position as top footballers, a  'job' that most  men could only fantasise about - and which they  surely want to retain as top flight, successful players.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think the likes of Brede, Riether,  Berba, Sidwell, Duff , Ruiz, Schwarz  aren't motivated to keep Fulham in the Prem, which is obviously related to their own status in the game and professional pride - though you might question some of the loanees' attitudes, but Riether and  Enoh have been two of our most  detemined seeming players.

We obviously have problems, but I think it is in player confidence and  team organisation, and  weakness in defending, which  Jol seemed to be getting right with a settled team - and then Dejagah was injured and other injuries, and Sidwell's red card - and now we look a shambles - though one that was unlucky to get a point yesterday.

[epsomraver]

Of course football managers should motivate,the better ones do,  why is Ferguson so successful? because he knows how to man manage, Jol couldn't motivate me to buy an ice cream on a hot day

[RaySmith]

If the Fulham players can't motivate themselves to give their all to stop Fulham going down, then they deserve to go down, whatever Jol skills in management , or lack of them.

[epsomraver]

If the Fulham players can't motivate themselves to give their all to stop Fulham going down, then they deserve to go down, whatever Jol skills in management , or lack of them.

It's  not THEY who go down but WE as in the club, the fans. It is not all about the highly paid players who some of don't give a toss

[RidgeRider]

Of course football managers should motivate,the better ones do,  why is Ferguson so successful? because he knows how to man manage, Jol couldn't motivate me to buy an ice cream on a hot day

:plus one:

Managers motivate and strategize. Jol seems average to poor at both. He is very good at attracting good players and I think we have the deepest and most talented squad we've ever had.........with possible exception last season. We could make a strong argument we are more talented this year. We lack leadership. Jol is not the answer.

[Matt Inglis]

Personally I currently have the mindset that I really don't mind if Jol stays or goes.
I think his tenure has been particularly uninspiring and wouldn't mind too much if he were replaced. Equally, you can sometimes see the type of squad he's trying to build and stability is a good thing.

[BillNRoc]

Two runs of extremely poor form in one season, no matter what authority the manager has or lacks, he gets fired. That's the way it works, just ask Martin O'Neill.

Will it take relegation for Jol to be dumped? Yesterday his team was the one that looked like it had already dropped to the Championship, that alone should be sufficient. We lost to freaking Reading at home, for crying out loud. It can't get much worse than that....but it may, in two weeks.

[BillNRoc]

Results aside, the team is playing really ugly football, same as November-December. It used to be, Fulham was only hard to watch on the road, when they parked the bus and played for 0-0. Now every game brings new exercises in ugliness. Yikes.

[Lighthouse]

Jol - Right we are playing a side that is relegated. What we need to do is play the same formation and the same players who have failed to score. The last thing we want to do is put any pressure on this relegated side. So no pace please.

Jol (fifteen minutes into the game) I have done it wrong again. We need pace panic panic, put Rodders on, leave the midfield exposed. Let's wait, until we put on Kaka. After all we don't want to over do it. Let's clear things up. Team selection is not my job either. Oh wait. Bugger I think it is after all.