Feelings towards Jol

[jarv]

Impressed by new signings. Squad looks decent now, competition for places but mainly in midfield.

Concerned by lack of pace and possibility of too many games with slow, slow build up. (wait and see)

Hoping for safety by March and NO suitcases packed for the holidays in April. Jol has to keep players motivated til the END of the season, not just 40 points. Fans pay too much for some of the dross dished up last season.

Top half is achievable (on paper).

[Bassey the warrior]

Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.

Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.

But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.

Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.

Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.

So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.

I somewhat agree with this, at times we were putting square pegs in round holes in terms of making use of what we have. Some players simply aren't suited to Jol's tactics.
That is why he's bringing in so many new players. He's a stubborn guy and he can only play one way so he's ensuring the players can play that way too.

Could we have an explanation of who these square pegs are and what tactics they struggle with?

Jol is bringing in new players because we need better players and younger players (we hope). We will probably lose those players out of contract but do we see any signs of wholesale offloading of those `non-Jol' players in contract to make way for `Jol' players?

In what way is Jol stubborn so can he only play one way? The style of the team is in many ways determined by the players available. Jol played with a target man when we had Zamora and Pogrebnyak. Berbatov, Petric and Rodallega are not that sort of forward and, in turn, are different from each other. Jol continued with Hodgson's inside out wide men with Duff, Davies and Dempsey but now we are edging towards more normal wide men when we play Dejagah and Kacanikilic. When Murphy with his passing game was fading he was replaced by Dembele and his running game. It seems to me that Jol has had to be flexible given the changing circumstances.

Schwarzer can't avoid the temptation to kick ling despite not having a target man, Hufges can't play ball playing defender, Riise too slow for attacking full back, no creative central midfielder meaning Berba and Ruiz drop deep to compensate.
I agree the season before he was very pragmatic, but it's in his nature to play a certain way.
He was badly let down last summer. I have faith we'll have a good season.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.

Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.

But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.

Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.

Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.

So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.

I somewhat agree with this, at times we were putting square pegs in round holes in terms of making use of what we have. Some players simply aren't suited to Jol's tactics.
That is why he's bringing in so many new players. He's a stubborn guy and he can only play one way so he's ensuring the players can play that way too.

Could we have an explanation of who these square pegs are and what tactics they struggle with?

Jol is bringing in new players because we need better players and younger players (we hope). We will probably lose those players out of contract but do we see any signs of wholesale offloading of those `non-Jol' players in contract to make way for `Jol' players?

In what way is Jol stubborn so can he only play one way? The style of the team is in many ways determined by the players available. Jol played with a target man when we had Zamora and Pogrebnyak. Berbatov, Petric and Rodallega are not that sort of forward and, in turn, are different from each other. Jol continued with Hodgson's inside out wide men with Duff, Davies and Dempsey but now we are edging towards more normal wide men when we play Dejagah and Kacanikilic. When Murphy with his passing game was fading he was replaced by Dembele and his running game. It seems to me that Jol has had to be flexible given the changing circumstances.

Schwarzer can't avoid the temptation to kick ling despite not having a target man, Hufges can't play ball playing defender, Riise too slow for attacking full back, no creative central midfielder meaning Berba and Ruiz drop deep to compensate.
I agree the season before he was very pragmatic, but it's in his nature to play a certain way.
He was badly let down last summer. I have faith we'll have a good season.

I can agree with all these individual problems and others such as that Berbatov and Ruiz often don't look equal to the sum of their parts let alone exceed them (but I would keep playing our best two players and work on getting it right) but that is the hand that Jol has been dealt.

From his signings of Sketelenburg, Amorebieta and Boateng it looks as though Jol fully understands those problems and I hope signings of a central midfielder and striker will solve our other major weaknesses. Then it is down to improving consistency and performances.

[RidgeRider]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?

And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?

[Lighthouse]

The same 'some say this and some say that argument' has been used before and still makes no sense. Those who cause division want to make us take sides. Some people don't like Jol for one reason and others for another in the same way Jol supporters are very contradictory in their views. These are just view points and we debate them and that is it. But there are no sides other than we all follow the same side.

I reserve the right to debate against a poster on one point and agree with him or her on another point.

[RidgeRider]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?

And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?

I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.

Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.

Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.

You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.

[simplyfulham]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?

And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?

I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.

Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.

Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.

You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.

RR can I direct you to my earlier post about the failing memories of Fulham fans..  :048:

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?

And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?

I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.

Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.

Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.

You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.

I asked two questions that I am happy to receive an answer to from any in the negative camp: how can Jol be both stubborn and constantly tinkering? what was Jol constantly changing?

Your reply does not address these questions.

You instead try to characterize those in the non-negative camp. I don't see anyone saying Jol is the best thing since sliced bread. I don't even recall anyone saying that we have had anything better than a disappointing season. I don't recall anyone saying that we don't need to find an effective style and be more consistent. All that is so obvious that most have taken it for granted.

Hodgson had a plan, he brought it together very quickly and it worked very well. But he, understandably, left for bigger things because he knew that significant changes would have to be made for us to progress. And don't you recall all the comments that our PL (as opposed to the Europa League) style was effective but too negative. And another thing was that we were quite lucky under Hodgson to have few injuries or sending offs (given his limited squad) so he could play a regular team.

[RidgeRider]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?

And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?

I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.

Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.

Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.

You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.

RR can I direct you to my earlier post about the failing memories of Fulham fans..  :048:

With all the new signings, that trend of change is likely to continue. I guess we better hold on to our seats as we are probably looking at another up and down season. Good post though and you make a good point,

I hope others understand that I, and others, remain highly suspect and unimpressed with our manager's stint thus far (except his ability to acquire talent) with Fulham. I doubt any of us would mind being completely wrong, if we start to play well again.  :048:

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly  changing his mind every Monday , shame this  doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.

I am confused.

According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".

He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.

Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?

And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?

I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.

Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.

Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.

You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.

Yes, every manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc.. Yes, Jol should have done better.

But pointing out the injuries, red cards and loss of key players is not simply making excuses but putting our situation in context.

Do you not think that if nothing else changed that we would have been better with a fully fit Diarra playing all season? Should we have coped just as well when playing playing with 10 men and not being able to pick Hangeland and Sidwell for those 10 games? Do you think that all those posters on here mourning the loss of Dembele and Dempsey are just a load of wimps and that we should have done just as well with Sidwell and Rodallega.

All these enforced changes disrupt the rhythm and the formation of the team.