WHY BERBATOV WAS A BAD BUY FOR FULHAM

[ron]

Agree with count berbatov....It's Jol's responsibility to handle Berbatov.

The same was said about Johnny Haynes that he intimidated team mates, and discouraged quality players from signing at the Cottage. The real truth of the matter is that we have a better chance of advancement with players of Berbatov's quality than we do with journeymen....particularly with Jol in charge, who seems incapable of gelling 11 ordinary players into a consistent winning combination.

We all knew we were getting a languid performer when Berbatov was signed. Running clever rather than running hard was always his style, and he has come up with important goals where the journeymen simply haven't.

Be careful what you wish for if you want Berbatov gone imho folks. The alternative with Fulham at the moment is loan players, (and players performing well seldom get put out to loan), or assorted journeymen with their 'futures' behind them.




 

[Count Berbatov]

Agree with Mr. Boyo and Mr. Moose. Be gone, Berba ... and Jol.

Oh, and I kinda like this emoticon:  051

First of, why sell when you could just drop him for a couple of games. The transfer window is closed , might as well keep him on the bench than dropping him completely
Secondly, if get rid of both Jol and Berba at the same time, how we'd ever know who's fault it was and who's to blame
And lastly, I would love this team, even with Jol in charge, to be given a chance until January. And then the logical step is to sack the manager, not sell your last year's top scorer


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[The Bronsons]

It's Jol's fault, and Berbatov's. They're both supposed to be professionals at the top of their profession. Jol should be able to manage Berbatov; but Berbatov should be responsible enough at this stage of his career not to need "managing".

I'm sick of the sight of both of them, and the sooner they go the better.

[Count Berbatov]

I never criticized Berba at United. Believe it or not, he never had a bad game over there. He wouldn't score for a bunch of games, but never played badly
For the first time here at Fulham, I want him dropped and I want him change his attitude.
Jol has to find a way to manage him.
Great players come with attitude, but they also do great things on the pitch. You just have to deal with it.
Berba is not everyone's cup of tea. But if you want the best for your club, you don't get rid of your most talented player. You simply channel their attitude and manage them differently
Sir Alex is a text book on how to manage players . Perhaps your manager isn't up to it.

Look, I have sympathized Fulham forever. I was ecstatic when Berba joined Untied and was very sad to see him go. Especially to go out of England and out if my sight. But then he stayed and joined Fulham. Where players are taken care of. A big family feel and all. I personally could have posted occasionally and ignore everything non Berba related. I guess many expected exactly that. But I didn't. Because this board, this forum and the club made me feel welcome, and made me care about it. To the point, I want my hero dropped for the better of the team.
If that isn't clear for some on here, I don't want Berba on the team, if he's not performing

Don't make my hero go from here too, because your emotions take over. Just a reminder, form is temporary, class is permanent

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[NogoodBoyo]

Count B.  I feel your pain and understand what you're saying. 
I've posted my views on Jol earlier.  In my view, he lacks the basic man-management skills to manage Berbatov - and most of the rest of the team for that matter.  For this reason, along with his poor choice of coaching staff, I don't believe Jol has a future at Fulham.  I also have a hunch the next Fulham manager will not be able to manage Berbatov eiother.  B's class is undoubted.  It just doesn't work in a club with a limited budget - back to the George Best scenario.  The superstars just get too frustrated with the Sidwells and the John Evansons of this world.
But, it wasn't that long after Best left that Fulham had one of its finest teams ever.  The MacDonald kids.
I look forward to that type of outfit.  A team of talent and effort in equal measure.  And a team that was superbly coached. 
Therein lies the rub.  For those above who professed a greater desire to watch one Bulgarian with silky skills and 16 goals under his belt play for a team that is very poor in all aspects of the game, I would ask the question - would you rather see flamboyant skills and 16 goals from one man along with an awfully low record of goals per season from the team as a whole?  Or would you prefer to watch a team of more modest individual talent that can score more goals in total and win more games in the process?
Nogood "no-brainer, isit" Boyo

[Count Berbatov]

All good valid points NgB. Cheers

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[RaySmith]

no good, you have not posted for a while. I sort of agree. He was excellent last season but seems to be happy to pick up his cheque now. The difference between him and Best, probably George, great entertainer as he was, thought he couldn't do it for a second season so quit. Smart move on his part.

Surely Berba doesn't neeed the money - if he wanted money he could have got more elsewhere. Everyone agrees he was good last season, and it's early days this season - who knows what the problem is - if there is a problem.

Re Best well, he was an alcoholic when he played for Fulham - in the Second Divion, and he couldn't have played at the top level - as Berba still can - and I think there were other, contractual reasons, as well as personal, that caused Best to leave after one season.

[RaySmith]

Count B.  I feel your pain and understand what you're saying. 
I've posted my views on Jol earlier.  In my view, he lacks the basic man-management skills to manage Berbatov - and most of the rest of the team for that matter.  For this reason, along with his poor choice of coaching staff, I don't believe Jol has a future at Fulham.  I also have a hunch the next Fulham manager will not be able to manage Berbatov eiother.  B's class is undoubted.  It just doesn't work in a club with a limited budget - back to the George Best scenario.  The superstars just get too frustrated with the Sidwells and the John Evansons of this world.
But, it wasn't that long after Best left that Fulham had one of its finest teams ever.  The MacDonald kids.
I look forward to that type of outfit.  A team of talent and effort in equal measure.  And a team that was superbly coached. 
Therein lies the rub.  For those above who professed a greater desire to watch one Bulgarian with silky skills and 16 goals under his belt play for a team that is very poor in all aspects of the game, I would ask the question - would you rather see flamboyant skills and 16 goals from one man along with an awfully low record of goals per season from the team as a whole?  Or would you prefer to watch a team of more modest individual talent that can score more goals in total and win more games in the process?
Nogood "no-brainer, isit" Boyo

Well Jol is an experienced and successful manager.

You make a good point, but we don't know if the team would score more as a whole without Berba.

Though we are different this season, with Bent up front and Taarabt and Parker - so we need to see how it pans out - what is Jol's best team.

[Count Berbatov]

I just hope Berbs proves all the doubters wrong next week. Lets just hope Jol gets it sorted out with the team selection and tactics

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[The Old Count]

Count B.  I feel your pain and understand what you're saying. 
I've posted my views on Jol earlier.  In my view, he lacks the basic man-management skills to manage Berbatov - and most of the rest of the team for that matter.  For this reason, along with his poor choice of coaching staff, I don't believe Jol has a future at Fulham.  I also have a hunch the next Fulham manager will not be able to manage Berbatov eiother.  B's class is undoubted.  It just doesn't work in a club with a limited budget - back to the George Best scenario.  The superstars just get too frustrated with the Sidwells and the John Evansons of this world.
But, it wasn't that long after Best left that Fulham had one of its finest teams ever.  The MacDonald kids.
I look forward to that type of outfit.  A team of talent and effort in equal measure.  And a team that was superbly coached. 
Therein lies the rub.  For those above who professed a greater desire to watch one Bulgarian with silky skills and 16 goals under his belt play for a team that is very poor in all aspects of the game, I would ask the question - would you rather see flamboyant skills and 16 goals from one man along with an awfully low record of goals per season from the team as a whole?  Or would you prefer to watch a team of more modest individual talent that can score more goals in total and win more games in the process?
Nogood "no-brainer, isit" Boyo

Well Jol is an experienced and successful manager.

You make a good point, but we don't know if the team would score more as a whole without Berba.

Though we are different this season, with Bent up front and Taarabt and Parker - so we need to see how it pans out - what is Jol's best team.

I wouldn't say Jol was a successful manager. What has he ever won. Every team he has left seems to have done better without him...Ajax etc.

[RaySmith]

He did well with spurs didn't he? Why do clubs keep employing him if he's no good?

[grandad]

The basic problem with Berba is the inability of our MF in providing him with service in the last third. He then drops far too deep to have any effect in the pen area in an effort to create some sort of activity. For us, however having both Berba & Ruiz doing the creative work is not what we need as that leaves us woefully short up top. Bent is not a lone striker & he must have either Berba or Ruiz high up with him.  These players can score shed loads but not from MF.
Our MF have got to take on more responsibility to create opportunities.

[The Old Count]

He did well with spurs didn't he? Why do clubs keep employing him if he's no good?

5th place then got the sack when they were bottom three at the start of the season.
Harry Crooknap did better at Spurs.
Like I said before, he's good at getting players in, not so good at moulding them into a team when they arrive. He can't get them to play at their optimum. His man management skills are dubious and he's tactilcally inept.
Mark my words, he won't last the season.

[cmg]

The basic problem with Berba is the inability of our MF in providing him with service in the last third. He then drops far too deep to have any effect in the pen area in an effort to create some sort of activity. For us, however having both Berba & Ruiz doing the creative work is not what we need as that leaves us woefully short up top. Bent is not a lone striker & he must have either Berba or Ruiz high up with him.  These players can score shed loads but not from MF.
Our MF have got to take on more responsibility to create opportunities.

...and therein, to my mind lies the crux of the 'problem'.

I disagree with NGB.
He is a top poster on here, witty and intelligent. Not a knee-jerk band-waggon jumper of the type whose hysterical overreaction has recently made this board so difficlt to enjoy. So I offer, with respect, some rebuttal to his post:


First off he is a brilliant player.  With the exception of Best and Moore (never saw Haynes), he's the most skillful player I've seen at the club.  On his day, a delight to watch. Well, we start off in full agreement. But both Haynes and Best could be 'difficult', many geniuses are, but neither were seen as detrimental to the team.
The trouble is, he cannot or will not function in a club of Fulham's calibre.  Here are my reasons for this statement:
He is uncoachable.Good. Players of real genius (there ain't many of them) don't need coaching   Jol and his staff fail to slot him into the team in a way that plays to his strengths and/or intimidates the opposition. If this is true, then he should be told to do his own thing, that would intimidate the opposition Or they fail to control him more likely. Failure to control, if true, is a management failure
He intimidates our team more than he does the opposition (especially our impressionable youngsters) with his emotional histrionics on the pitch. I simply don't agree with this. I think the younger players (Kaca, for example.) respect, admire and seek to learn from him. You only have to watch Tankovic play to see how influential he is. Before any of you start with "Well, they should man up and deal with it," think how you react to arrogant know-it-alls in your workforce - even if they do excel at their jobs.  Very poor for morale! Well there's no such thing as a free lunch, a player who gets 15 goals a season is very good for morale, I'd say.
The club had a very good pre-season and started well last year with Petric scoring freely upfront and Dembele pulling the strings in midfield.  All knew where they stood and what they had to do.  What about this year - and the end of last year?
Berbatov has killed Ruiz's career with Fulham - just when Bryan was starting to look good. Totally unsustainable. Bryan's failure (so far) to live up to our hopes could have many other explanations - failure to deal with the greater speed and more robust marking found in the PL or the inadequacies of our midfield support, for instance.  For a clue as to how well we could do with Ruiz's skills at #10, read about his demolition of USA (including Dempsey) today. Ruiz was great yesterday morning. But he was given excellent support from the CR midfield and the US marking was nothing like that experienced in the PL. If CR had had Berbatov they would have won 6-1! (That's just an opinion.)
What about the goals he scored, I hear you say.  The answer is simple:  Last year, Petric and Rodders plus a couple of midfield players could have slotted those 16 with better teamwork. This is total supposition. We could look into the past scoring records of both players (niether of which bears comparison with Berbatov) but even then we would be guessing. We know what Berbatov did. To compare one player's output with the total of two (or more) others is a bit iffy anyway, you can still  play only 11)  This year, Bent, Parker and Jimmy Tarbot will replace them - but not with him in the team. I would expect Bent and Taarabt to be more potent scoring forces than Petric and Rodellega, with or without Berbatov. He's a blockage en route to goal.
In conclusion, Berbatov's arrival coincided with a reign of confusion, listlessness and a lack of direction that will haunt us till he goes. Confusion, listlessness and lack of direction are matters for the management to address  Go he must.
Nogood "bring back journeymen and youngsters who play as a team, isit" I kind of think that all too many Fulham supporters are only comfortable with journeymen Boyo

Berbatov will be gone this time next year and I, for one, will be saddened. I hope by then that the man himself will have convinced everyone to feel the same.

With Berbatov, Taarabt and Ruiz on board we have so many enigmas at the club that we are in danger of becoming Bletchley Park United. I like all these players (no journeymen there) but it will take considerable managerial skill to get them to fit together. But we don't give managers their fat pay packets just to mouth cheerful platitudes at press conferences. Jol, with Bent and Parker, has got his men - it's up to him to get them to deliver.

[farfouille]

Therein lies the rub.  For those above who professed a greater desire to watch one Bulgarian with silky skills and 16 goals under his belt play for a team that is very poor in all aspects of the game, I would ask the question - would you rather see flamboyant skills and 16 goals from one man along with an awfully low record of goals per season from the team as a whole?  Or would you prefer to watch a team of more modest individual talent that can score more goals in total and win more games in the process?
Nogood "no-brainer, isit" Boyo

NogoodBoyo, you are one of the FoF members that I love reading posts of, but those questions above inspired me to write down my favourite FoF myths about Fulham. I dedicate the first one to you.

#1. If Berbatov is dropped, the other Fulham players will start performing miraculously well. They will even score additionally at least one more goal than Berbatov did last season, as there is a specific number of goals that Fulham can't go below (accidentally, this number coincides with last season's overall goal tally).

#2. We don't need defensive midfielders - we can play Kasami and Ruiz in central midfield. Playing with 6 offensive players will solve everything.

#3. Berbatov slows the attacks down although he's the only player at Fulham familiar with the term "one-touch football" and he's one of the very few players who barely looks at the ball when dribbling (unlike Ruiz, for instance, who has never been famous for slowing attacks down).

#4. Let's do that Christmas tree formation – that's the real thing. Who needs wingers anyway?

#5. Christmas 2013 is the exact moment of time when Jol's career will come to an end – it's like predicted by the Mayans with the only exception that it's inevitable.   

Back to the topic – Berbatov is a great player with an awful attitude on the pitch. The awful attitude now becomes a real problem as Berba has shown an awful form in the last couple of matches (and I don't mean physically, we all saw those Peter Andre abs). Now, everyone wants him gone, as if no Fulham player has ever had two bad games in a row.

[Berserker]

Phew forgotten about tbose abs

[Vinnieffc]

Phew forgotten about tbose abs

I'm still here darling  :005:

[Burt]

Berba was a terrific buy.

Problem is he is surrounded by a team that don't play to his strengths, and managed by someone who has yet to sort the team out to get the best out of him.

[epsomraver]

Berba was a terrific buy.

Problem is he is surrounded by a team that don't play to his strengths, and managed by someone who has yet to sort the team out to get the best out of him.

What strengths? the occasional flash flick on? He moans all the time,I have watched Kaca running towards goal with a clear route and yet he is watching for a chance to give the ball to Berbatov because if he doesn't he gets moaned at,  spends more time offside than Collins John did and, we cannot break forward while is is walking back from offside, Ruiz must be so frustratred, every time he looks up and Big Head is offside and so we go back , and back and back,HE  SLOWS OUR GAME RIGHT DOWN

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

IMO, Great post Boyo and liking CMG's and farfouille's replies.

Bottom line is,  Berbatov cannot lead and he will not be driven, he works to the beat of his own drum.

If he was a dog you'd shoot him .................isit ?!!!  064.gif