Tired of all this pessimism

[LBNo11]

I used to go to football to be entertained, I have not been under Jol's reign, I am not alone in this thinking, I am paying 45 quid on Saturday to hopefully see an improved game, if it is much of the same then I will vote with my feet for future games.

...I too go with the hope of being entertained by players who are supposedly the creme de la creme in the much vaunted Premier League, unlike the years of lower league footballers and managers with a less impressive CV that did the job as best they could, and still managed to entertain.

Of course the results and league position are important, but if there is scant entertainment, and all that matters is the result (which are not usually due to the way we are playing rather than the way the opposition are playing) why should I bother going? I may as well just look at the results like a good chel$ea fan and show my allegiance by walking around at the weekend in my club shirt and not even know the names of the players - or even the history of the club?

I understand, that these days Football is all about business, brand and money, and that long term fans count for little, but that is another discussion...

[TonyGilroy]

"I understand, that these days Football is all about business, brand and money, and that long term fans count for little, but that is another discussion..."


But is it really?

That is the financial reality and there is no escaping that. If Jol looks like getting us relegated he'll be sacked no matter how attractive the football might be or what excuses he may have.

Keep us above the danger area and he'll probably be safe if only for fear of the risks that a more adventurous manager might cause.

And what is attractive football? Personally I like intelligent play with a team working towards an understandable plan but the default position is that I want us to win. If we do I leave the ground happy. Failure to win may draw some positives (as they say) but basically it pisses me off.

[RaySmith]

Exactly Tony - i've never met a fan who was happy  if their team wasn't winning - no matter how pretty the football.

Even arsenal fans have been well peed off when the team hasn't been getting results, and their acknowledged good football hasn't compensated for a lack of trophies. As we all know , Arsenal were a very unattractive side in their league and cup winning  heyday under George Graham -'it's 1-0 to the arsenal'.

I doubt if you would find  a single person employed by a club in a pro capacity - either player or on the coaching  staff, who doesn't think that results are the most imprtant thing, and that they live and die by them - and attractive football is secondary - nice is you can have winning and  good football, but if you can only have one , winning is the more important by far.

A losing club will lose  its league status and its fans, now matter how attractive their play.

[LBNo11]

...so as customers we have to decide do we support a business or entertainment? All I know that if the last 10 or so games were on in the theatre the production would have been closed...

[TonyGilroy]

...so as customers we have to decide do we support a business or entertainment? All I know that if the last 10 or so games were on in the theatre the production would have been closed...

Sure but you don't go to see the same production every other week.

I go to the theatre. It can be anything from wonderful to dreary but I'll not go again until there's another production that takes my fancy.

[LBNo11]

...that's funny, I thought we were watching the same production every week.. :008:

[TonyGilroy]

It just seems that way.

If you watch carefully you'll notice that each week the opposition wear slightly different shirts.

[LBNo11]

It just seems that way.

If you watch carefully you'll notice that each week the opposition wear slightly different shirts.

...oh, that's right, they're the ones who play the football..!

[RaySmith]

...so as customers we have to decide do we support a business or entertainment? All I know that if the last 10 or so games were on in the theatre the production would have been closed...

But sport and football are more dramatic than theatre, because you don't know how it each game will end. And you can go and see a play that or film that you don't think is up to much, just as you can a game of football

But  I'm never bored watching Fulham, though I would definitely be bored often watching any other club, even Man U or Barcelona, because I care about the Fulham result, the result is always in question, and it's very important - because Prem status is always precarious for Fulham, and for most of the division.

Thus each game is highly competitive, played by elite athletes, and   I'm always caught up in them - because i desperately want Fulham to win - it's life and death for me during the duration of the match, and i'm very peed off if we lose. Yes - i'm one of the old style supporters - who began  supporting fulham in the 60s

i must admit to sometimes feeling bored  watching a third div game on a cold January afternoon at a deserted cottage - because  the games didn't always have that competitive edge that ALL Prem games have , because so much depends on every result.

[BRNicholson]

I find it a bit odd that people are separating out 'playing football' and 'results'. It's strange that one might consider the two mutually exclusive, when the general wisdom is that playing football well is what brings results. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but that's precisely what makes it the rule.

The start to this season - and the end of last - has not seen us playing 'unattractive' football (a la Stoke); that at least might have seen us getting results. The last few months have been filled with bad performances and the sort of form relegation candidates would look down on.

I'd be quite happy with us playing in similar way to how we did under Roy, where we were organised and played nice football even without being the most extravagant and attacking side in the league. At least the eleven players on the pitch actually looked they there were professional footballers. Instead, what we're being subjected to would hardly be called football in most people's book (okay, a bit of hyperbole there, but what the hell). When 'Arry - manager of a fairly dire QPR side last year - thinks we look tactically clueless, that's pretty bloody worrying.

[Lighthouse]

Those who say the negative football brings results - look we have only played three games - so entertainment and pretty football are not important - are content to hope to avoid relegation. The teams who have ambition on the field of play - tend to do rather better. Watching Dire and Dull when I should be watching Berbatov and Ruiz, just saddens me.


We are saying we are not good enough to get a result away from home and so must play the way we do in the hope of scraping a result. I see a team who IS good enough but are simply shackled.

[RaySmith]

Yes, but we have had a better away record, with more wins, than under any other Prem manager. I speak as someone who has watched  countless  defeats  and nil- nil draws on the road under coleman and hodgson, and only remember a couple of victories - though one of those was the 'great escape' at man city. I think it would be better to an away fan under Jol - though i can no longer afford to go- otherwise i definitely would.

I didn't say that good football and successful football are mutually incompatible - I said that is the ideal, but if you have to choose, anyone in the game, and most fans, would choose  winning football, whatever they may say.

Well, for me 'good' football is winning football, but it's people on here who seem to make that distinction. Though, what is 'good' is somewhat subjective. As an ex-defender I can appreciate the art of defensive play - marking, discipline, and tackling, and good tactics that help get a positive result rather than a defeat.

Of course,i would love to see us playing  the free flowing football we played  in DIV 1 under Tigana - and getting those results - but Tigana wasn't so successful as a Fulham Prem manager,and people used to call for his head in exactly the same way as they do now for Jol -his attacking style  made us vulnerable in the Prem, and we were facing relegation.

[Roberty]

Don't get me wrong with my earlier statement. I meant, given the dire football I would not pay 45 quid on the chance ythat I "might" see a decent game of football and hopefully, win.
If I did live in UK, I have no doubt I would have a season ticket along with all the other old gits and moan about the game every week 092.gif
It is vital Fulham stay in the premier, else I won't get to see them on tv in usa.

For £45 you get to sit in the posh seats - find yourself a season ticket holder and for the West Brom game you can sit in the Hammy End for £10.

[HatterDon]

A good friend of mine, who doesn't post on here because of threads like this, put it as well as it can be put: I'm starting to hate watching the team that I love.

[fulhams_finest]

Yes, Jol seems to have become a scapegoat for everything.

I predict that Jol will be sacked if results are bad enough, and not if they aren't. If he goes the new man will face the same problems if he gets the same amount of funding, and face the same degree of hostility from fans - it was ever thus, except with Roy.

I don't understand this degree of negativity at the beginning of a season - we are meant to be supporters after all- nd  part of the nature of supporting is certain degree of optimism imo - ie you go to every match hoping fulham will get a positive result, even if  the head says it is unlikely - well i do anyway.

A club like fulham is always going to have imperfections compared to the big boys, but why not think of the positives  of supporting this  unique club.

Well said RaySmith  :clap_hands:

Unfortunately it would appear that some people on this board would rather see Fulham lose at the moment and risk relegation so that M Jol is sacked and then no doubt they would have great pleasure in saying " I told you so"

Opinions have to be heard or things will never change! Jol has had more money than hodgson and more time and the team are playing far more negatively, sometimes it looks like our players are too scared to go round players or pass the ball forward - it all about jols style as previously explained by several other supporters - no one is going to be in te stadium on Saturday hoping they lose but - none of us will be surprised if they do - the last time we won at home was QPR last season if I remember rightly!

[The Equalizer]

There are some very interesting points on here, and a lot if people citing the 'lack of entertainment' as a reason for their disappointment in Jol. And some going far as to say the will stop attending games if it continues.

Now I know which camp I'm in, and that camp is bitter disappointment with Jol. But I'm going to ask a question of some of our more experienced supporters who are sharing this threadbare tent with me:

Did you attend matches when we were fraction of the side we are now, languishing in the lower divisions or teetering on the edge of the abyss? Did you think the same thoughts or were you 'Fulham 'til I die'?

Did you abandon all hope or were you standing in the rain and cold on the banks of the Thames as Dicks, Mackay, Branfoot etc. made a mockery of our club?

We've been worse off than we are now by a margin that is too great to contemplate. Negativity will always be there, but is it worse now than then?

Just asking... and perhaps playing devil's advocate a bit.

[The Equalizer]

Still tired of the pessimism?

[Twig]

you still think we are being pessimistic?

[ffcbulgaria]

you still think we are being pessimistic?

pretty much

[chiefo]

Still tired of the pessimism?

Different times different resources. At least then we couldn't really expect much considering the state we were in. Move forward to the now and see what we have in terms of said resources. We have the quality type of player but not the quality type of play that the investment warrants imho, so in answer to the question yes tired of the pessimism, but that is down to Jol and his coaching staff to change it or move on.