Tight financial constraints?

[Pluto]

I'm sure many of you noticed Jol's comments to the media the other day where he talked of the tight financial constraints he has been forced to work under, and that we are "20th in the table on money spent". I'm very confused why the club is making these comments and, if true, why we are in this situation.

We have just seen an influx of TV money rumoured to total in excess of £50 million, and apparently took out a £16m loan against this so we could have some money in advance rather than in installments. Add to this the fact that we have a new owner, the 4th wealthiest in the league with a personal fortune of over $4 billion, plus the fact that the total value of players sold over the past few seasons exceeds money spent, then you have to ask the question where has all our money gone?

With teams like Cardiff and Southampton splashing out £40 million and even clubs such as Hull and Crystal Palace spending significantly more than us and beating us to targets, then we need to ask questions about why it seems to be exlcusively Fulham that is in this mess. We've seen no progress on the Riverside stand so that is not an excuse. Al Fayed wrote off all our debts before selling the club so we do not have loans to pay back. We still have the money from the Dembele and Dempsey transfers left unspent....I just don't understand it. Has someone (Al Fayed? Khan?) pocketed our money?

Of course there is the argument that a club like ours needs to be sustainable and self-sufficient, but we have higher gates and a broader international following than many clubs which have significantly outspent us. That position will change dramatically should we be relegated, and what is sustainable for us will drop. The standards required to remain in the PL are improving and clubs need to spend now to retain the PL status which affords them sustainability in the first place.

One final point- why is Khan permitting Jol to make these comments? As a multi-billionaire new owner, it's incredibly embaressing for him, on a personal level, for Jol to suggest that we don't have any money to spend. He had many weeks as Chairman before the transfer window shuts; if we needed investment then there is no excuse. Finally, its a very negative message for the club to be sending out and suggests to fans that the club is being poorly run and increases the agitation and worry about our Premier League future.

(Sorry for the long post- I'd just really like to hear some views on this!)

[elgreenio]

With teams like Cardiff and Southampton splashing out £40 million and even clubs such as Hull and Crystal Palace spending significantly more than us and beating us to targets, then we need to ask questions about why it seems to be exlcusively Fulham that is in this mess. We've seen no progress on the Riverside stand so that is not an excuse. Al Fayed wrote off all our debts before selling the club so we do not have loans to pay back. We still have the money from the Dembele and Dempsey transfers left unspent....I just don't understand it. Has someone (Al Fayed? Khan?) pocketed our money?

whilst there's been no public progress on the Riverside Stand we still need to reserve the funds for it. On Dempsey and Dembele, Daniel Levy is probably the most astute in the field and those fees are being drip fed to us, so there isn't really a lump sum laying around for us.

I will say though that Jol has ravaged our previously tight wage budget so there goes a lot of the budget (it's not like football manager where there is a separate transfer kitty and wage kitty)

[LBNo11]

...I would have thought the previous managers comments of "no ambition" might have made the current incumbent ask questions relating to financial constraints at the point of signing a contract of employment..?

[westcliff white]

The 16 million loan was re paid in full. The TV revenue for me was not 50 million for the season it was 24 last year and goes up to around 35 this. Now those are also reasonable sums of cash i grant you. But I also think that is reliant on how much you are on in live games, as i believe the deal is that everyone gets a base amount and then a fee per game you play live. Every team has to be on 3 times before the end of the calendar year, then after that Sky / BT can choose whoever they like for live games, which is why some teams get 50 million a year as they are on more often.

As for Khan my guess is he didn't want to spend to much straight away, he did say he wants us to be run as a business (which is what Mo did), so maybe we will spend in January or maybe we will just carry on as we have done every season. You also should remember that any wages over the top of our wage structure comes out of the transfer funds and is put aside to cover those.

[Bassey the warrior]

It isn't true actually. There's a fee teams below us, not many though.

[Pluto]

With teams like Cardiff and Southampton splashing out £40 million and even clubs such as Hull and Crystal Palace spending significantly more than us and beating us to targets, then we need to ask questions about why it seems to be exlcusively Fulham that is in this mess. We've seen no progress on the Riverside stand so that is not an excuse. Al Fayed wrote off all our debts before selling the club so we do not have loans to pay back. We still have the money from the Dembele and Dempsey transfers left unspent....I just don't understand it. Has someone (Al Fayed? Khan?) pocketed our money?

whilst there's been no public progress on the Riverside Stand we still need to reserve the funds for it. On Dempsey and Dembele, Daniel Levy is probably the most astute in the field and those fees are being drip fed to us, so there isn't really a lump sum laying around for us.

I will say though that Jol has ravaged our previously tight wage budget so there goes a lot of the budget (it's not like football manager where there is a separate transfer kitty and wage kitty)

If Spurs can pay in installments in this fashion then why can't we? Also every teams wage budget has incresed exponentially over the past couple of seasons- the likes of Swansea and Southampton must be paying huge wages for Osvaldo and Bony and haven't suffered in the transfer market. Promoted clubs especially must be seeing huge increases and are still outspending us, so again it seems strange that we seem to be the only club suffering.....

[westcliff white]

With teams like Cardiff and Southampton splashing out £40 million and even clubs such as Hull and Crystal Palace spending significantly more than us and beating us to targets, then we need to ask questions about why it seems to be exlcusively Fulham that is in this mess. We've seen no progress on the Riverside stand so that is not an excuse. Al Fayed wrote off all our debts before selling the club so we do not have loans to pay back. We still have the money from the Dembele and Dempsey transfers left unspent....I just don't understand it. Has someone (Al Fayed? Khan?) pocketed our money?

whilst there's been no public progress on the Riverside Stand we still need to reserve the funds for it. On Dempsey and Dembele, Daniel Levy is probably the most astute in the field and those fees are being drip fed to us, so there isn't really a lump sum laying around for us.

I will say though that Jol has ravaged our previously tight wage budget so there goes a lot of the budget (it's not like football manager where there is a separate transfer kitty and wage kitty)

If Spurs can pay in installments in this fashion then why can't we? Also every teams wage budget has incresed exponentially over the past couple of seasons- the likes of Swansea and Southampton must be paying huge wages for Osvaldo and Bony and haven't suffered in the transfer market. Promoted clubs especially must be seeing huge increases and are still outspending us, so again it seems strange that we seem to be the only club suffering.....

I dont think we are struggling i think we have a model we stick too. some of these clubs spending massive money will struggle to survive if they go down inside 3 years. look at pompey, leeds etc the history is there. its ok paying the wages while you can but if your relegated and have no reduction clause int he contract the your buggered on less income, and why would anyone moving for big bucks want to have that in their contract? I know we are all frustrated (I am too) but i see the logic in our model

[DevonFFC]

But if you don't spend you may go down anyway so surely by spending and giving yourself the increased chance of staying up then it's a gamble you would want to take


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[leonffc]

In relation the the Dembele sale and Levy being astute, surely we have some say in how the money is paid? Just because he has met the release clause it doesn't mean he can pay a pound a week like some scroat paying a fine. I would have thought we were still in the driving seat and could demand it paid over two seasons at least (assuming none are ever paid in full)

[DevonFFC]

But if you don't spend you may go down anyway so surely by spending and giving yourself the increased chance of staying up then it's a gamble you would want to take


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[BestOfBrede]

Khan said something along the lines of - there is already a plan in place for this season and I will not interefere with that. Assuming the plan was as always - very little for transfers, then we can only hope that Khan sets a new plan beginning in the Jan market! 051

[westcliff white]

But if you don't spend you may go down anyway so surely by spending and giving yourself the increased chance of staying up then it's a gamble you would want to take


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but if you dont stay up you then face administration due to the overspend, better the devil you know? or the devil you dont?

[TonyGilroy]

I think we fixate on transfer fees whereas they're only a part of the overall player spend figure.

Wages, agents fees and signing on fees are as important and the sort of player we've been signing won't have been cheap. Those on Bosmans no doubt expect to receive a hefty sum in lieu of the transfer fee we're not paying.

Jol is of course making excuses but we don't know how restricted he's been in player acquistion. Is it his choice to bring in players like Parker, Berbatov and Bent instead of younger foreigners who would have cost fees but received less in a contract package? There's probably more risk there but the possibility of getting a Benteke/Michu type bargain.

Above all we really don't know any part of Khan's thinking, intentions and motives. He's said the right things but they've been vague and cliched. I'm happy to give him the benefit of any doubt for now but I wish he'd be more open.

[The Old Count]

I missed these comments.  Where were they?

[BestOfBrede]

I missed these comments.  Where were they?

Was this question to me?
If so, I really cannot remember but it may well have been on the video of him and Fayed together - you know - the one where Fayed threatened to cut his mustache off if he removed the Jackson statute! Otherwise it was proabably a writeup on the main site as I don't tend to believe anything I read in the papers.

[TootingKhanmun]

As a club, we've been starved of investment for quite some time now. Not just now, but also the last few years of the Fayed ownership. Whilst we have remained stale, other clubs around us have improved, even those who have come up from the Championship.

We've had to survive on own own for quite a while now, and although people say why aren't we not spending 10 million on a player, well the hard truth is, we don't have it, we're actually skint as a club and have had to juggle finances. Does anyone think that Mackintosh is doing what he's doing just to pee the fans off? If anything, he's kept Fulham treading water.

We can all sit here and say where's the T.V money as well, again, Fayed may have used it to help pay off the debt, he may have also pocketed it, he was entitled to it right?

Another scenario being, is that the T.V money is currently tied up at Fulham, but Khan wants to monitor us for a year before he understands where the club needs those finances.

Either way, the take over has come just at the right time in my eyes, possibly 2 season to late, but if we had continued under the old regime for much longer, I think we'd have been relegated some time soon.

Anyway, Khan has a big task on his hands right now as we're desperate for investment. I can forgive him for not investing in the summer, but if he goes past January without another penny spent on the squad, then I will have to start questioning his intentions with Fulham.    

[The Old Count]

I missed these comments.  Where were they?

Was this question to me?
If so, I really cannot remember but it may well have been on the video of him and Fayed together - you know - the one where Fayed threatened to cut his mustache off if he removed the Jackson statute! Otherwise it was proabably a writeup on the main site as I don't tend to believe anything I read in the papers.

No mate. I remember the ones you mentioned.  I meant, I missed 'Jol's comments to the media' mentioned in Pluto's original post.

[The Old Count]

I'm sure many of you noticed Jol's comments to the media the other day where he talked of the "tight financial constraints" he has been forced to work under, and that we are "20th in the table on money spent". I'm very confused why the club is making these comments and, if true, why we are in this situation.

We have just seen an influx of TV money rumoured to total in excess of £50 million, and apparently took out a £16m loan against this so we could have some money in advance rather than in installments. Add to this the fact that we have a new owner, the 4th wealthiest in the league with a personal fortune of over $4 billion, plus the fact that the total value of players sold over the past few seasons exceeds money spent, then you have to ask the question where has all our money gone?

With teams like Cardiff and Southampton splashing out £40 million and even clubs such as Hull and Crystal Palace spending significantly more than us and beating us to targets, then we need to ask questions about why it seems to be exlcusively Fulham that is in this mess. We've seen no progress on the Riverside stand so that is not an excuse. Al Fayed wrote off all our debts before selling the club so we do not have loans to pay back. We still have the money from the Dembele and Dempsey transfers left unspent....I just don't understand it. Has someone (Al Fayed? Khan?) pocketed our money?

Of course there is the argument that a club like ours needs to be sustainable and self-sufficient, but we have higher gates and a broader international following than many clubs which have significantly outspent us. That position will change dramatically should we be relegated, and what is sustainable for us will drop. The standards required to remain in the PL are improving and clubs need to spend now to retain the PL status which affords them sustainability in the first place.

One final point- why is Khan permitting Jol to make these comments? As a multi-billionaire new owner, it's incredibly embaressing for him, on a personal level, for Jol to suggest that we don't have any money to spend. He had many weeks as Chairman before the transfer window shuts; if we needed investment then there is no excuse. Finally, its a very negative message for the club to be sending out and suggests to fans that the club is being poorly run and increases the agitation and worry about our Premier League future.

(Sorry for the long post- I'd just really like to hear some views on this!)

Where were Jol's comments about tight financial constraints?  I must have missed that interview.

[MJG]

For a start Jol is incorrect and we were not 20th in transfers this summer we were 18th.
I asp suspect that the two loans are not exactly cheap. Plus Boateng who was chased for 4 or 5 windows would have had a decent fee.

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[MJG]

The total income to spend does not take into account the 'free' transfers, or larger wages we would clearly be paying to the big name players.

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