NFR PT 109 - the JFK season is upon us

[Neil D]

Some of you may have whiled away this afternoon watching the 1963 film tribute to Kennedy's wartime exploit as skipper of the PT 109 torpedo boat sunk by a Japanese destroyer.  An eminently forgettable film but interesting for several reasons.  It helped boost JFK's popularity in 1963 but not in the South where his admittedly modest civil rights policies were unwelcome. The cinemas in the South advertised the film with 'See the Japs almost get Kennedy!'

This is possibly an apocryphal story but I got a lot of mileage out of it in my history lessons so here it is.  Kennedy undertook a 4km swim to find help for his marooned crew and he was questioned about this by a female journalist in a press conference on his return to the US.  She asked what his worst moment was during the swim.  He said it was that a shark might mistake a certain part of his anatomy for a fish.  She asked 'What did you do?'.  'I swam a lot of backstroke.'

I hope it's true. 

[YankeeJim]

Actually, PT 109 was sitting still and was run over by the destroyer which didn't know it was there. Not a smart move by the captain of PT 109. His actions afterward were heroic to be sure.

BTW, everyone has seen the film footage of Kennedy's assassination. Dealey Plaza in Dallas looks huge on film. It isn't. I could have made that shot. As to the so called second gunman, the wall he is supposed to be behind (he wasn't) is perhaps 40 feet from the traffic lane Kennedy was in. Sad day for America. I remember exactly where I was when I heard the news just as I'll always remember the precise moment when the second airplane hit the Twin Towers. Some things are etched into your brain.

[MJG]

What do you mean second gunman..there were three at least

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[YankeeJim]

What do you mean second gunman..there were three at least

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Now, now your  086.gif.

[cmg]

What do you mean second gunman..there were three at least

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Latest 'theory' is that the fatal headshot was an accidental discharge from a Secret Service agent's Armalite from the car behind. Obvious garbage but attractive as a Cockup over Conspiracy theory.

JFK was something of a hero for the young me (less so now), the first (and one of very few) politicians I admired. The fact he was bumped off in such a shoddy way started me realizing that everything turns out crap in the end.

I was at Wimbledon Palais when I heard the news. Got home in time to see the then Deputy PM George Brown drunk out of his brain (default position for him) on TV. Some things you never forget.

[MJG]

That theory has been around since mid 70's and was on a documentary in the last week.
I'm a bit of a JFK junkie so have quite a large number of books and videos on him, the shooting and his legacy.

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[ScalleysDad]

genuine non conspiratorial question for those in or have been to Dallas. Is there any recognition by way of a plaque or monument to the policeman who was shot following the assassination?
I watched the channel 4 programme the other night narrated by Kevin Spacey. The shot of Jackie, the Kennedy brothers and the kids behind the entourage was quite sad to see. Who would have thought at the time what was to come for the whole extended family..I don't remember the JFK shooting but I vaguely remember my Mum crying a bit when Bobby was killed years later.

[YankeeJim]

The fatal bullet hit at a downward trajectory and then hit the Texas governor in the wrist.
I just don't believe conspiracy theories. Too many people have to keep their mouth shut AND fool all the other people in their lives while the plot is hatched and carried out and than keep quit afterwards. The police have to ALL be incompetent or ALL involved.
Conspiracy theories are fun entertainment but nothing more.

[MJG]

That shot was not the fatal shot, the headshot was.

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[cmg]

The bullet that went through Connelly's wrist (and JFK's throat and Connelly's body) was the so called 'magic' bullet (the first, or second or even third Oswald fired) that, according to Oliver Stone and others, would have had to swerve all over Texas if fired from the Book Depository. In fact when it was established (seemingly some years after the event) that the Lincoln's seating arrangements were assymetric, this bullet followed a perfectly normal trajectory.

The fatal shot was the one that blew JFK's head apart. To do so it  had to fragment. This has led to the idea that it was an Armalite round rather than a Mannlicher (Oswald's weapon) one. In fact standard ammo as fired by Oswald could, in fact, fragment. A proper examination of the brain, which would establish the degree of fragmentation, was impossible as it mysteriously 'disappeared' following the chaotic autopsy carried out in Washington. This has allowed various CIA/SS coverup theories to flourish.

[stokesy]

couldn't care less about kennedy the whole family was like the mafia
and anyway not related to football

[Berserker]

I find it all very interesting, yes alledgely brain was taken away in a bucket and disappeared. I didn't know what a hollow point bullet was until Mr B explained. I love a conspiracy theory but I doubt if we will ever know what happened to JFK

[cmg]

couldn't care less about kennedy the whole family was like the mafia
and anyway not related to football

...hence the NFR prefix.

As to the Kennedy/Mafia bit, Joe Kennedy/Sam Giancana and the Illinois ballot boxes in the 1960 election is another story yet to be fully revealed.
Old Joe was one of history's less admirable characters - was almost certainly a secret Chelsea supporter.

[Berserker]

couldn't care less about kennedy the whole family was like the mafia
and anyway not related to football

...hence the NFR prefix.

As to the Kennedy/Mafia bit, Joe Kennedy/Sam Giancana and the Illinois ballot boxes in the 1960 election is another story yet to be fully revealed.
Old Joe was one of history's less admirable characters - was almost certainly a secret Chelsea supporter.

As was Hitler

[Lighthouse]

I believe every theory when it comes up. Hence I now believe that Oswald shot at Kennedy and the bullet hit the pavement and then hit Kennedy. Kennedy said Bugger me I have been shot. Then Oswald shot again and the shot went through Kennedy and the Governor in front. The seats in front had been moved to fit everybody in, hence there was no magic bullet just a simple shot.

Then an FBI bloke in the car behind reached down and picked up his rifle and was turning towards the book depository, clicked off the safety. But the car he was in, jerked forward causing his finger to press the trigger and shoot Kennedy through the head.

Hence the cover up, the two different types of bullet etc. The three bullets found in the book depository, two were under where Oswald had taken the shot, the third was found further away and was cleared from the chamber before Oswald took his two shots.

This is what happened. Until the next theory comes up.


At least we know nobody from Fulham were involved. As we never take any shot.

[cmg]

As to the Kennedy/Mafia bit, Joe Kennedy/Sam Giancana and the Illinois ballot boxes in the 1960 election is another story yet to be fully revealed.
Old Joe was one of history's less admirable characters - was almost certainly a secret Chelsea supporter.

As was Hitler

...who Old Joe greatly admired. Often seen together on the Shed End during the '38 season when Joe was US Ambassador to the UK.

[YankeeJim]

Joe Kennedy was removed as ambassador to your island because he was viewed as being a German sympathizer. He was a boot legger and almost certainly "connected". One of Jack's girlfriends was connected to Sam Giancanna. Politics is a dirty business. Despite all the good press, Jack was just as rotten as anyone who goes into higher politics. Sadly, his murder gave the US the Vietnam War, thanks to that war criminal Lyndon Johnson.

[Snibbo]

Don DeLillo's "Libra" is a really good read. A fictional recreation of the state of America  leading up to the assassination, the life of Oswald etc. A gripping read, but does not claim to be fact. However, like many of his books, it shines a light on the mindset of America at the time./

[Berserker]

At least we know nobody from Fulham were involved. As we never take any shot.

Ah but the one shot that was going to be aimed at Oswald but accidently was off target and fataly hit JFK could have been done by a Fulham player  :58:

[Fulham1959]

That theory has been around since mid 70's and was on a documentary in the last week.
I'm a bit of a JFK junkie so have quite a large number of books and videos on him, the shooting and his legacy.

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Me too, in a smallish way.

There was lots wrong behind the scenes of Camelot and lots wrong with JFK's personal morals, etc., etc.

BUT there has never been a more charismatic President of the USA in the 20th or 21st centuries.  He was young, gave the appearance of being in the pink of health (which throughout his life he never was), had a glamorous wife and was undoubtedly very intelligent.  He had that magic movie star appeal and a persona that made people believe in a bright new future.  That was undoubtedly why his death was felt so deeply.

Even 50 years later, it is still moving to see the film of his 3-year-old son saluting the coffin procession.