What is really going on?

[davew]

As we all know the last 12 months haVe been a real disaster with possibly worse to follow at the end of the season, we all have different views but here are a few questions :-

1. I keep reading on this forum that we have no money to spend on new players, what is this based on? I was under the impression that the new owner is 1 of the richest men in the world?

2. Rumours say that Mr Khan bought the club for around 200 million, so how much would the club be worth if we were relegated?

3. What do you think the difference would be to the Clubs accounts if we were relegated? As an accountant (myself - retired), the difference would be considerable and therefore I do not understand the lack of investment on new players so the next question is...

4. Mr Khan is obviously no fool and a businessman, so why do you really think he purchased the club, but to date is allowing us to go on a downward spiral and will in turn cost him a lot of money?

5. If money is so tight, which I personally doubt, why waste money on additional backroom staff who to date do not seem to have made any contribution to getting the club out of relegation issues and how could they?

Lot's more questions but this is a start!!

[Denver Fulham]

4. Mr Khan is obviously no fool and a businessman, so why do you really think he purchased the club, but to date is allowing us to go on a downward spiral and will in turn cost him a lot of money?

I keep seeing variations of this question on this board, and still haven't seen an answer that makes any sense to the obvious response:

"At what point so far was Khan supposed to have done more than has been done?"

He took over late in the summer after the transfer plan had been implemented. This is his first window as an owner, and there are 10 more days left in it before we judge anything that's happened. He authorized the bringing on of Rene, the firing of Jol, and the hiring of Wilkins and Curbishley.

If people want to freak out after this window closes and start making assumptions about the owner's intent, at least there would be some marginal evidence to use in support. What exactly should Khan have done *to this point* that he hasn't done?

[davew]

The hiring of Rene and the firing of Jol yeah I think we would all agree that was a positive move, but then shortly afterwards it was adjudged perhaps Rene needs additional support, ummm, so Rene was not judged good enough to manage on his own and also needed additional coaching support, that part I find strange!

I think many of us are very frustrated at the way the Club has gone downhill the last 12 months, but at least thankful that MAF salvaged the club and moved us to heights we would not have reached without him. Perhaps we all expect too much too soon!

[Beamer]

Fair questions but only really so after the end of the window. Nobody has actually said there is no money but equally we are unlikely to be buying the 87 players we have been linked with so far.
We can only wait and see, frustrating but a fact of life for fans of most clubs. I bet even Man Utd fans are saying why are we not spending money.
Getting relegated would be a massive blow but we cannot really influence that, just trust in the judgment of the owner and management team and keep everything crossed. We have seen much worse times but that doesn't really make things seem any better at present.
Part of me says SK is a shrewd man and must know the score and the other half says look at his Jaguars and see the state they are in at present, so it's just fingers crossed.

[Bryanthebroom]

4. Mr Khan is obviously no fool and a businessman, so why do you really think he purchased the club, but to date is allowing us to go on a downward spiral and will in turn cost him a lot of money?

I keep seeing variations of this question on this board, and still haven't seen an answer that makes any sense to the obvious response:

"At what point so far was Khan supposed to have done more than has been done?"

He took over late in the summer after the transfer plan had been implemented. This is his first window as an owner, and there are 10 more days left in it before we judge anything that's happened. He authorized the bringing on of Rene, the firing of Jol, and the hiring of Wilkins and Curbishley.

If people want to freak out after this window closes and start making assumptions about the owner's intent, at least there would be some marginal evidence to use in support. What exactly should Khan have done *to this point* that he hasn't done?

Have to agree. As difficult as it is to sit on our hands and watch as the hours tick by, I'm going to wait until the end of the window before I pass judgement on Mr Khan.

We all know that January is not the ideal window in which to sign players - yes; a fact which is exacerbated by Fulham's poor league position. But something has to be done now rather than later, and at least in Ings, Moore and particularly Morrison we are finally being linked with the right sort of players (let's just ignore Hutton for now).

[davew]

Cheers Beamer and Bryan for the comments, as a lifelong supporter of FFC (only a mere 62 years old) and whose Granddad was a Director of the club for over 20 years (said that before on the old forum), I am very passionate about the club and hate the modern system of success being determined by wealth, so when we have a wealthy owner, etc. etc.

[Admin]

Honestly, I don't think club want to spend big in January, in fear that we do go down. If we do, I think they think they are confident enough of coming straight back up, I beg to differ though.

It isn't a coincidence that Curbishley has been appointed, he does a job now as 'Technical Director', if we're relegated, he takes over from Rene', Rene remains head coach. Again, another coincidence why Rene' hasn't been given the full title as 'manager' yet, he doesn't 'really' get sacked, if you know what I mean? I believe it's a suck it an see situation.

We all knew, well I had a hunch, that Fayed was winding the club down around 4-5 seasons ago. He stopped any heavy investment in the squad, and what investment we did/didn't have, was all been pumped into the youth academy, in an aid to build a self sufficient future.

Problem there, is that the first team got neglected, and after the Europa league final, players like Brede', Hughes, Duff, Dempsey and so on got old, they were never replaced and we then had a big problem on our hands, a very aging squad.

Love him or hate him, Mark Hughes confirmed our status, he said we 'lacked ambition' and he was right. Fayed wasn't prepared to give him any funds and wanted him to work on a shoestring. If anything, it was around that time the 're-build' of the squad should have started, but it didn't. Don't believe for one minute Fayed had any intentions of building the new Riverside Stand, it was a smoke screen to bait a new buyer, to make us look more attractive.

Then, welcome Mr. Jol. The man who Alister Macintosh thought was the guy who would get the best out of an average squad, attract better than average players to Fulham, and bleed youngsters into the first team. How wrong was he? We all knew Jol was a selfish person, and he was only good when working will 11 talented players, not 11 aging, average individuals.

Me personally, I think the sale of Fulham happened a season to late. I think Khan was sold a song, and he was bit naive as to how much investment/work was needed at the club. To be told that the 'current plan under Fayed' was good enough to run with, was bad advice and who ever gave it should have been sacked. First port of call this summer was to invest in that squad, one of the biggest mistakes the club will come to regret, unfortunately.    

[davew]

Good posting Admin!!!!!!!!

[alfie]

As we all know the last 12 months haVe been a real disaster with possibly worse to follow at the end of the season, we all have different views but here are a few questions :-

1. I keep reading on this forum that we have no money to spend on new players, what is this based on? I was under the impression that the new owner is 1 of the richest men in the world?

2. Rumours say that Mr Khan bought the club for around 200 million, so how much would the club be worth if we were relegated?

3. What do you think the difference would be to the Clubs accounts if we were relegated? As an accountant (myself - retired), the difference would be considerable and therefore I do not understand the lack of investment on new players so the next question is...

4. Mr Khan is obviously no fool and a businessman, so why do you really think he purchased the club, but to date is allowing us to go on a downward spiral and will in turn cost him a lot of money?

5. If money is so tight, which I personally doubt, why waste money on additional backroom staff who to date do not seem to have made any contribution to getting the club out of relegation issues and how could they?

Lot's more questions but this is a start!!

re point 5. to be honest none of us know what exactly their brief is for all we know Curbs may well be trying to get all sorts of players, we are not going to know that, i think it is a bit unfair to him to say his not made any contribution when we just don't know. Wilkins was brought in because of his very successful time at Chelsea, like Rene he has only been here 5 minutes, there is not going to be any instant miracles to change a playing style in such a short time, but we can see signs of improvement.

[Jamie88]

4. Mr Khan is obviously no fool and a businessman, so why do you really think he purchased the club, but to date is allowing us to go on a downward spiral and will in turn cost him a lot of money?

I keep seeing variations of this question on this board, and still haven't seen an answer that makes any sense to the obvious response:

"At what point so far was Khan supposed to have done more than has been done?"

He took over late in the summer after the transfer plan had been implemented. This is his first window as an owner, and there are 10 more days left in it before we judge anything that's happened. He authorized the bringing on of Rene, the firing of Jol, and the hiring of Wilkins and Curbishley.

If people want to freak out after this window closes and start making assumptions about the owner's intent, at least there would be some marginal evidence to use in support. What exactly should Khan have done *to this point* that he hasn't done?

Sign some much much needed players!

[RaySmith]

We know that the  club has been making bids for players, but presumably  not wanting to pay too over inflated prices. And we don't know how successful we will be until the close of the window.

It seems logical to bring in Curbs and Wilkins given Rene's managerial inexperience. And in the last two games we have seen the  defence become  more solid with return of Brede and the  introduction of Burns- when many managers wouldn't have gambled on a  youngster.

I think everyone at the club is desperate to escape relegation, but getting new players in isn't that simple and it's not just about the money, though as a businessman Khan won't
want to throw his cash away - but we know he is prepared to spend, as we see by bids already made for players

[Holders]

What puzzles me is why Jol came to Fulham when he was moanng that the reason he wanted out of Ajax was because they wouldn't invest in new players. He must have known the score and Hughes' comments. I was peed off at the manner of Hughes' leaving and he's subsequently said that he regretted it. I have a suspicion that Jol just wanted to get back into the PL to show that Tottenham were wrong to sack him. AM recruited Jol, hence the loyalty and patience at the end but, to be fair to Jol, one wonders whom he'd have bought and where we might be with a degree of invetsment (Ruiz aside). I still think Rene's a much better coach though and some of the players' comments indicate that as well.

I am still optimistic we'll stay up and I see no indication that Khan is reluctant  to invest now he sees how things are. A comparison with the Jagwars is invalid. One could argue whether it was right or wrong but he's spent money to bring in Curbishley and Wlkins and it's on record that we have made bids (albeit as yet unsuccessful) totalling about £10m so far this window. Rene has himself said that it isn't for want of doing early business that no-one's yet come in but that, for several reasons outside our control, it goes to the wire. Other clubs are in the same boat.

Be patient and keep the faith - at least until the end of the window.

[TonyGilroy]

Splashing cash as a solution is simplistic although it might be necessary.

Example.

We all agree that we need a new left back and that we are hopelessly weak in that position.

We do though have John Arne Riise who in his day was amongst the best in Europe. At 32 he should still have some mileage in the tank.

We have Damien Richardson. Schooled at ManU presumably under Muelensteen, an England international with over 250 Premier League games played and still under 30.

Amorbieta can play there and his record in Spain was excellent.

None of these though are good enough (genuinely) so amongst the replacements we are seriously said to be considering at a price of around £4M is the Swansea RESERVE left back. That's Swansea who have 2 more points than us. This is a guy who lost his place to a kid through injury and can't get back in the team.

Now I have no idea if he's right for us but on the basis of CVs we have three guys who ought to be better. And what we need now, urgently, are players who will be an immediate, guaranteed upgrade.

Having an open cheque book is only part of the solution. What really matters is the availability of players that our manager and scouts are confident will be what we need and that in the certain knowledge that we won't be able to sign anyone who is currently a first team regular in the Premier League because of course their clubs won't sell and the player wouldn't come to us anyway in our current position. Which, of course, is why we need them.

Much better in my opinion to bring in quality coaches who can organise our current players better and improve them.

We shouldn't be where we are and wouldn't be if money had been spent sensibly over the last three years but expecting Khan to make it right NOW with cash is unrealistic.

We face a long term rebuild and we may very well be relegated no matter what transfer business gets done in the next few days.

[BestOfBrede]

Splashing cash as a solution is simplistic although it might be necessary.

Example.

We all agree that we need a new left back and that we are hopelessly weak in that position.

We do though have John Arne Riise who in his day was amongst the best in Europe. At 32 he should still have some mileage in the tank.

We have Damien Richardson. Schooled at ManU presumably under Muelensteen, an England international with over 250 Premier League games played and still under 30.

Amorbieta can play there and his record in Spain was excellent.

None of these though are good enough (genuinely) so amongst the replacements we are seriously said to be considering at a price of around £4M is the Swansea RESERVE left back. That's Swansea who have 2 more points than us. This is a guy who lost his place to a kid through injury and can't get back in the team.

Now I have no idea if he's right for us but on the basis of CVs we have three guys who ought to be better. And what we need now, urgently, are players who will be an immediate, guaranteed upgrade.

Having an open cheque book is only part of the solution. What really matters is the availability of players that our manager and scouts are confident will be what we need and that in the certain knowledge that we won't be able to sign anyone who is currently a first team regular in the Premier League because of course their clubs won't sell and the player wouldn't come to us anyway in our current position. Which, of course, is why we need them.

Much better in my opinion to bring in quality coaches who can organise our current players better and improve them.

We shouldn't be where we are and wouldn't be if money had been spent sensibly over the last three years but expecting Khan to make it right NOW with cash is unrealistic.

We face a long term rebuild and we may very well be relegated no matter what transfer business gets done in the next few days.

Spot on  065.gif

[Berserker]

Yes well said Tony, totally agree

[Forever Fulham]

It's a strange dynamic at play, trying to recruit quality replacement players during the mid-season transfer window, when your team stands so low on the table, facing a relegation battle.  So many of the desirable available players out there will look at our place in the standings and say, 'no thanks', even to hefty money offers.  It's now become, I think, doubly hard to get who the club wants at a reasonable price.  A bad run of form tends to compound on itself.  It would be so much easier to get quality players if the team's standing was solidly mid-table, rather than 17th.  Jol could entice Dimitar after the team finished so surprisingly higher than anticipated last season with a late flourish of wins.  But now?  Now Khan will have to swallow hard and overspend to get proven quality to protect his purchase.  Because it got to that, Alistair should be sacked.  But maybe there are a few 25 year old hidden gems out there.  Players of real quality shining on their otherwise mediocre teams sitting low on the table in foreign top division football leagues.  Players who would jump for at least a half season in the Premier, just to get on the radar screen.  

[grandad]

I think after the window we should be informed as to what exactly has gone on & what the club intend to do if we stay up or if we get relegated.
We are the ones who spend our money on tickets, merchandize, Sky, BT Sport etc. The club don´t have any other source of income apart from whatever investment Khan wants to make.Without supporters there would be no football.
In reality we are the moral shareholders of the club & as such we should be kept informed.

[TonyGilroy]

I think after the window we should be informed as to what exactly has gone on & what the club intend to do if we stay up or if we get relegated.
We are the ones who spend our money on tickets, merchandize, Sky, BT Sport etc. The club don´t have any other source of income apart from whatever investment Khan wants to make.Without supporters there would be no football.
In reality we are the moral shareholders of the club & as such we should be kept informed.

All you'd get is aspirations though.

If we go down we'll try to get back up.

If we stay up we'll endeavour to progress through better coaching, bringing on the young players and smart acquisitions.

All of that will be true but also meaningless.

We can't be told what players we bid for, how much we offered and why the deal didn't happen because that involves the players and their existing clubs and if it were known that we would go public on those deals no one would talk to us.

It also makes no sense to publicly state how much money we have to spend unless we want prices to sky rocket or to say which positions we're trying to strengthen because it demotivates existing players.

Frustrating for us but there really are limits on what we can be told.

[N_O_W_S]

How do you know that it isn't Ali Mac that is responsible for there being no signings?

Maybe Khan has made a ton of money available and it is Ali Mac's approach that is failing to cut the mustard?

[TonyGilroy]

How do you know that it isn't Ali Mac that is responsible for there being no signings?

Maybe Khan has made a ton of money available and it is Ali Mac's approach that is failing to cut the mustard?

We don't know but I'm struggling to see why Mackintosh wouldn't spend money that's available to him.

I've said elsewhere that it's about the "who" rather than the "how much". It will take more than money to fix us this season. New players have to be good enough now and our league position doesn't give us pulling power.