Ali Mac.... Has to go

[TonyGilroy]

Khan is the boss and any powers of decision making others have are in his gift.

I really don't buy the notion of him being an ignorant, trusting man. I think he's as sharp as they come and used to being successful. If he feels that AM has proved inadequate he'll be gone this summer. If he stays it's because Khan believes in him and he knows a damn sight more about what's gone on this season than any of us.

AM gets blamed for anything that goes wrong and for all I know with justification but since I don't actually know I'll simply be interested in what Khan does.

As an example of the blame game consider Mitroglu (or any oother transfer).

I reckon there are 5 stages in a transfer.

1. Identify target.

2. Decide what we're willing to spend.

3. Negotiate terms with player, club and agent.

4. Persuade player to choose us rather than any competitor.

5. Medical.

My assumption is that AM has prime responsibility only for 3. 2 must be down to the owner. 1 and 4 are more down to manager than anyone else and 5 is obvious.

Yet some see AM as the villain.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Odd that people are blamed and congratulated for doing things we have no idea if they had much say in doing. All I know is that since Mark Hughes left as manager we have been an embarrassing mess.

Somebody must takee responsibility. He is the one constant.

How can you write the first and last sentences in the same post?

Makes sense. He is the only constant but we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when. But as the MD he must do something.

No, it makes no sense.

You blatantly admit "we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when" yet state Mackintosh must go.

Choosing a scapegoat or sacrificial victim to satisfy your lust for vengeance is deeply unpleasant vigilantism.

[westcliff white]

I give a reason why the CEO should stay.
The season starts August 9th in championship. We can't waste time mucking around getting a new CEO in.
Issues to sort straight after Palace game are:
Magath..staying or not
Contracts..who are we resigning?
Deadwood...lets offload ASAP
Targets...get in early with bids.
Back in training early June.
We need to hit ground running from May 12th and not have a summer of boardroom upheaval. Do it after Aug 31st maybe if it has to be done.

:plus one:

I agree MJG there are more important things that need ot be sorted in the 2 weeks after the season has finished.

Re McGath if we go down I am not sure he will stay, be it on our part or his (and yes I know he has said he will stay)
On the contracts, I cant see some of the guys out of contract wanting to stay, Sidwell for one will probably go to a mid / lower end Prem team. Maybe the returning Hughes will stay. Riise will leave for sure
Those under contract to offload, gets harder here I cant see Stek staying, I like him but he is not favoured by McGath (I am assuming he will stay even though I am not convinced of this), Hangers (is he out of contract?) on form he is great off form liability, Mitro will be loaned out i guess or sold if he has a good world cup (personally I hope he hangs around for us, having seen him pay a couple of times this season for Olympiakos I believe he is a good striker).
Targets RB, LB, Ball playing CM, Ball winner, Wingers, and a striker (even if Mitro stays)
Back training no later than end of the 2nd week in June and get the lads ready. For some they wont be used to a start that early but it is required if we are relegated.

[Lighthouse]

Odd that people are blamed and congratulated for doing things we have no idea if they had much say in doing. All I know is that since Mark Hughes left as manager we have been an embarrassing mess.

Somebody must takee responsibility. He is the one constant.

How can you write the first and last sentences in the same post?

Makes sense. He is the only constant but we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when. But as the MD he must do something.

No, it makes no sense.

You blatantly admit "we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when" yet state Mackintosh must go.

Choosing a scapegoat or sacrificial victim to satisfy your lust for vengeance is deeply unpleasant vigilantism.

Try reading what I wrote ''Somebody must take responsibility. He is the one constant' Now I don't say he must go but he is the one constant. Stop talking rubbish about lust for vengence and vigilantism. Now debate with me if anybody is responsible and prove me wrong if you like. Debate and tell me he isn't the one constant. But do stop trying to throw insults about again. It doesn't add anything to the debate and just makes you look vindictive.

[Pluto]

It's hard to argue Ali Mac hasn't had much of a say when Khan himself said he'd take a backseat and use the knowledge and advice of the people with experience at the start of the season.

[TonyGilroy]

Giving advice is not the same as taking decisions.

[Lighthouse]

Giving advice is not the same as taking decisions.

The real problem is what exactly is the advice and on what subject. But if I know nothing about electricity and ask an electrician if it is safe to put my finger in the socket and I get a sudden Mitroglou. Then I think I can blame the advice.

[TonyGilroy]

Giving advice is not the same as taking decisions.

The real problem is what exactly is the advice and on what subject. But if I know nothing about electricity and ask an electrician if it is safe to put my finger in the socket and I get a sudden Mitroglou. Then I think I can blame the advice.

But here again the assumption is that Khan is thick as pigs**t and acts only on what AM tells him.

We don't know what their working relationship is but by now Khan is either satisfied with AM or not and will act accordingly.

For sure he knows how disastrous this season has been as it's about to cost him close to £100M.

And why the assumption that Mitroglu is AM's fault? Do you disagree with my post above?

[Lighthouse]

Well AM did the deal that brought the Greek here. That is beyond dispute. Our Chairman said as much and congratulated him. The deal has proved to be very bad for us. AM may not have known about The Greek or why we wanted him. But he did the deal and so AM must have taken the advice by doctors and medical people that the Greek was worth the money.

So he took the decision on the deal no doubt with the advice of others.

The owner makes the decisions on the advice of others. Khan is not an expert on football in England so he will take advice. Either way, the one constant is AM.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Odd that people are blamed and congratulated for doing things we have no idea if they had much say in doing. All I know is that since Mark Hughes left as manager we have been an embarrassing mess.

Somebody must takee responsibility. He is the one constant.

How can you write the first and last sentences in the same post?

Makes sense. He is the only constant but we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when. But as the MD he must do something.

No, it makes no sense.

You blatantly admit "we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when" yet state Mackintosh must go.

Choosing a scapegoat or sacrificial victim to satisfy your lust for vengeance is deeply unpleasant vigilantism.

Try reading what I wrote ''Somebody must take responsibility. He is the one constant' Now I don't say he must go but he is the one constant. Stop talking rubbish about lust for vengence and vigilantism. Now debate with me if anybody is responsible and prove me wrong if you like. Debate and tell me he isn't the one constant. But do stop trying to throw insults about again. It doesn't add anything to the debate and just makes you look vindictive.

So you argue by writing random unconnected sentences so the `somebody' and `he' are not to be interpreted as the same person?

No, `somebody' does not have to take responsibility unless it is the owner Khan otherwise it is scapegoating. Many have contributed to our downfall: the players who under-performed, the managers, possibly the medical staff. It is not clear what Mackintosh has done wrong because we don't know how things work internally in detail.

Mackintosh has been part of our successes so to attribute responsibility for this year's failures needs a much stronger argument than `he is the one constant'.

[Nick Bateman]

I can't stand the attitude of judge jury and executioner Ali Mac.

Surely if there is any casualty in the summer it is him. I cannot understand for the life of me any decision he had made this year apart from Jol's sacking.

Who is with me?

I agree he must be sacked.  In his defence I would say he meant well and made some bad judgements, in particular the timing of the removal of Rene Meulensteen, who's Fulham were playing TERRIFIC football and I am sure he would have led us to safety.

The Mitroglou affair and allowing Berbatov to leave also are reasons to ask for Ali Mack's resignation.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Well AM did the deal that brought the Greek here. That is beyond dispute. Our Chairman said as much and congratulated him. The deal has proved to be very bad for us. AM may not have known about The Greek or why we wanted him. But he did the deal and so AM must have taken the advice by doctors and medical people that the Greek was worth the money.

So he took the decision on the deal no doubt with the advice of others.

The owner makes the decisions on the advice of others. Khan is not an expert on football in England so he will take advice. Either way, the one constant is AM.

All we can reasonably assume from `did the deal' is that, as CEO, he dealt with the negotiations and contracts as he would for any other signing.

Do you have evidence that Mackintosh scouted Mitroglu or more crucially (because he may yet turn out to be wonderful) performed the medical?

[alfie]

I can't stand the attitude of judge jury and executioner Ali Mac.

Surely if there is any casualty in the summer it is him. I cannot understand for the life of me any decision he had made this year apart from Jol's sacking.

Who is with me?

I agree he must be sacked.  In his defence I would say he meant well and made some bad judgements, in particular the timing of the removal of Rene Meulensteen, who's Fulham were playing TERRIFIC football and I am sure he would have led us to safety.

The Mitroglou affair and allowing Berbatov to leave also are reasons to ask for Ali Mack's resignation.

1. When Meulensteen took over we were not bottom, when he went we were.
2. The Mitroglou affair, AM does not identify the player wanted that is the manager and his coaching staff, he just does the negotiating, he takes advise from the medical team, then does the deal if    informed all ok.
3. Berbatov did not want to stay here,  and i would say the majority of supporters were very happy for him to go,

But don't let facts get in the way, lets just sack him anyway.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I can't stand the attitude of judge jury and executioner Ali Mac.

Surely if there is any casualty in the summer it is him. I cannot understand for the life of me any decision he had made this year apart from Jol's sacking.

Who is with me?

I agree he must be sacked.  In his defence I would say he meant well and made some bad judgements, in particular the timing of the removal of Rene Meulensteen, who's Fulham were playing TERRIFIC football and I am sure he would have led us to safety.

The Mitroglou affair and allowing Berbatov to leave also are reasons to ask for Ali Mack's resignation.

Under Al-Fayed it was the owner who made the decision to hire and fire the manager.

Do you have the evidence that anything has changed?

If Khan has decided that the CEO, Mackintosh or his successor, hires and fires managers that would make Khan a fool in my eyes for I would want the best business manager for CEO and would take advice about the footballing side of the game from others. I don't think Khan is stupid though he did make a mistake in not preserving some continuity in the Board of Directors when he took over.

[Lighthouse]

Odd that people are blamed and congratulated for doing things we have no idea if they had much say in doing. All I know is that since Mark Hughes left as manager we have been an embarrassing mess.

Somebody must takee responsibility. He is the one constant.

How can you write the first and last sentences in the same post?

Makes sense. He is the only constant but we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when. But as the MD he must do something.

No, it makes no sense.

You blatantly admit "we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when" yet state Mackintosh must go.

Choosing a scapegoat or sacrificial victim to satisfy your lust for vengeance is deeply unpleasant vigilantism.

Try reading what I wrote ''Somebody must take responsibility. He is the one constant' Now I don't say he must go but he is the one constant. Stop talking rubbish about lust for vengence and vigilantism. Now debate with me if anybody is responsible and prove me wrong if you like. Debate and tell me he isn't the one constant. But do stop trying to throw insults about again. It doesn't add anything to the debate and just makes you look vindictive.

So you argue by writing random unconnected sentences so the `somebody' and `he' are not to be interpreted as the same person?

No, `somebody' does not have to take responsibility unless it is the owner Khan otherwise it is scapegoating. Many have contributed to our downfall: the players who under-performed, the managers, possibly the medical staff. It is not clear what Mackintosh has done wrong because we don't know how things work internally in detail.

Mackintosh has been part of our successes so to attribute responsibility for this year's failures needs a much stronger argument than `he is the one constant'.

There you go. You can add to the debate without needing to put  'lust for vegence' etc etc. A simple 'need a stronger argument' has made your point just as well. I don't agree but this defending of  AM while blaming everybody else for contributing to our downfall, as you seem to be doing is interesting. Yet you don't think anybody must take responsibility except the owner of one season. Interesting point of view.

I wont answer your other replies to my other posts because you talk nonesense about me having evidence of AM taking medicals which is the opposite to what was written and are clearly silly.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Odd that people are blamed and congratulated for doing things we have no idea if they had much say in doing. All I know is that since Mark Hughes left as manager we have been an embarrassing mess.

Somebody must takee responsibility. He is the one constant.

How can you write the first and last sentences in the same post?

Makes sense. He is the only constant but we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when. But as the MD he must do something.

No, it makes no sense.

You blatantly admit "we don't know for sure who does what to whom and when" yet state Mackintosh must go.

Choosing a scapegoat or sacrificial victim to satisfy your lust for vengeance is deeply unpleasant vigilantism.

Try reading what I wrote ''Somebody must take responsibility. He is the one constant' Now I don't say he must go but he is the one constant. Stop talking rubbish about lust for vengence and vigilantism. Now debate with me if anybody is responsible and prove me wrong if you like. Debate and tell me he isn't the one constant. But do stop trying to throw insults about again. It doesn't add anything to the debate and just makes you look vindictive.

So you argue by writing random unconnected sentences so the `somebody' and `he' are not to be interpreted as the same person?

No, `somebody' does not have to take responsibility unless it is the owner Khan otherwise it is scapegoating. Many have contributed to our downfall: the players who under-performed, the managers, possibly the medical staff. It is not clear what Mackintosh has done wrong because we don't know how things work internally in detail.

Mackintosh has been part of our successes so to attribute responsibility for this year's failures needs a much stronger argument than `he is the one constant'.

There you go. You can add to the debate without needing to put  'lust for vegence' etc etc. A simple 'need a stronger argument' has made your point just as well. I don't agree but this defending of  AM while blaming everybody else for contributing to our downfall, as you seem to be doing is interesting. Yet you don't think anybody must take responsibility except the owner of one season. Interesting point of view.

I wont answer your other replies to my other posts because you talk nonesense about me having evidence of AM taking medicals which is the opposite to what was written and are clearly silly.

I write words like `vigilantism' to mock your angry posts.

Similarly I write about him conducting the medical because you write sweeping statements about Mackintosh being responsible for doing the Mitroglu deal when the obvious interpretation of that is that he did the paperwork as he would with other acquisitions. You offer no evidence that he was responsible for the key aspects of the move: the selection of Mitroglu as the target and the medical.

[mockery]
Or do you mean that Mackintosh signed him despite Olympiakos and Mitroglu putting a clause in the contract saying "Fulham F.C. understand that Mitroglu is unlikely to play any significant part in the 2013/2014 season because of his knee injury" and yet Mackintosh still signed him?
[/mockery]

[TonyGilroy]

I actually don't blame anyone.

Sometimes bad things happen and things conspire against you. Keeping Jol could have been OK because the players who came in during the summer might have worked out.

Muelensteen might have proved a very capable manager and might have turned out so if he'd not been sacked. Or not.

So much of this is hindsight. Everything that could have gone wrong has but it wasn't inevitable.

If AM is the subject of this thread then who better to judge him than Khan. He'll know whether he can be trusted or whether he's been let down.

[alfie]

I actually don't blame anyone.

Sometimes bad things happen and things conspire against you. Keeping Jol could have been OK because the players who came in during the summer might have worked out.

Muelensteen might have proved a very capable manager and might have turned out so if he'd not been sacked. Or not.

So much of this is hindsight. Everything that could have gone wrong has but it wasn't inevitable.

If AM is the subject of this thread then who better to judge him than Khan. He'll know whether he can be trusted or whether he's been let down.

Have to say i agree with this, everything is either hearsay, guesswork or assumptions.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I actually don't blame anyone.

Sometimes bad things happen and things conspire against you. Keeping Jol could have been OK because the players who came in during the summer might have worked out.

Muelensteen might have proved a very capable manager and might have turned out so if he'd not been sacked. Or not.

So much of this is hindsight. Everything that could have gone wrong has but it wasn't inevitable.

If AM is the subject of this thread then who better to judge him than Khan. He'll know whether he can be trusted or whether he's been let down.

Have to say i agree with this, everything is either hearsay, guesswork or assumptions.

I agree.

There have been many factors: underperforming key players, lack of investment to replace Murphy/Dembele in CM, a left back and a goalscorer problems with the management, the change of ownership, etc.

I think it is fair to criticise players and the manager to a fair degree because we can all see their actions but we have little knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes and who is responsible for what.

Some of the attacks on Mackintosh have been vicious and offer no supporting evidence. They are no worthy of Fulham supporters or this board.

[Nick Bateman]

1. When Meulensteen took over we were not bottom, when he went we were.
2. The Mitroglou affair, AM does not identify the player wanted that is the manager and his coaching staff, he just does the negotiating, he takes advise from the medical team, then does the deal if    informed all ok.
3. Berbatov did not want to stay here,  and i would say the majority of supporters were very happy for him to go,

But don't let facts get in the way, lets just sack him anyway.

1.  Meulensteen's Fulham were fantastic getting an away draw with Manchester United which everyone complimented after.  Many Utd fans said Moyes should never have allowed RM to go.  We played the same but were unjustly denied a point V Liverpool in the following game and then ALISTAIR MACINTOSH sacked him, just as Fulham were playing the 'right' way.
2 & 3.  Ali Mack knew of Mitroglou's injury but gambled that he would recover.  He also oversaw the medical staff and is responsible if they advised him incorrectly.  And just because a player may not wish to stay does not mean we have to let him go.
Berbatov could easily, I repeat easily, been told he can negotiate a move in the Summer but Fulham needed him and it was a foolhardy decision made purely, solely and entirely incompetently by Ali Mack!  

Under his watch he also allowed Marc Schwartzer to join Chelsea for NOTHING; look how good he is doing now, and next he will allow Steve Sidwell to leave for nothing, costing us millions of pounds and weakening our team for next season.