Creativity

[domprague]

We were relegated for lots of reasons. A disorganised defence. Too many players who couldn't last 90 minutes. A squad that wasn't strong enough. No prolific goalscorer.

But a bigger worry for me was a lack of creativity. In the last few matches we were all waiting for Felix to bring on Dejagah and give us some threat, pace and trickery.

My take is that under Roy we had an excellent system and the players stuck to it. We weren't likely to rip teams apart but we were hard to beat and had players such as Gera and Duff who could conjure up something.

Under Jol we went too far the other way. It seemed to be 'Go out and express yourselves, lads, just play off the cuff.' But the players we had weren't good enough either in technique, movement off the ball or pace. So we moved the ball forward with all the speed of pallbearers taking a coffin to the grave, humped long balls forward to Berbatov or faffed about in midfield until we were swamped.

Look at the way teams broke at pace when playing us. The only time I saw us doing that was at home to Villa, Spurs and Liverpool. Like it or not, the Premier League operates at a fast tempo and we weren't up to that.

I hear all that everyone says about Ruiz and Berbatov but I think they were always destined to fail here. Ruiz would dwell on the ball because there was no one to pass to. Had we had a winger or a forward making the runs then he would have had an outlet. He might always have been too lightweight physically to succeed but I guess we'll never know.

With Berbatov, the ego got in the way but again, who was there to pass to him or for him to pass to?

Many people on FoF are talking about how the Championship is a physical division and we need battlers. True enough. But we also need people to pass the ball or we'll get nowhere.

[MJG]

When we talk about creativity what do we really think that means?

Is Dejagah creative?
Is Richardson creative?
Is Woodrow or Hugo creators?

Or do we mean a player who can play central, pick out the runs and make that pass that leads to a player scoring?

It is of course a combination of things. In the championship its going to be about pace and movement. That does not mean every player has to run around like a whippet, but if you dont make the runs and find space, then whoever has the ball has no chance to doing anything creative.

For me Chris David (and its not based on seeing him in one game) is the closest player we have to a creative midfielder. Played with two other CM's I think he is the type of player we need, as long as the others do their jobs. But we need another brought in as well. Would be a massive error to not have at least 2 midfielders who can play that role.

[JackyFulham90]

The only true creative player we have in the squad at this current time is Chris David

[JBH]

The only true creative player we have in the squad at this current time is Chris David

I fully believe Kasami would be a good creative midfielder  065.gif

[domprague]

@MJG I meant a player who can create an opportunity. Dejagah and Richardson can do that through pace, crossing and shooting. Danny Murphy could do it through spotting a pass. The trouble is that you can only play a creative pass if someone is there to receive the ball.

[MJG]

The only true creative player we have in the squad at this current time is Chris David

I fully believe Kasami would be a good creative midfielder  065.gif

But will they ever let him play that central role?

[MJG]

@MJG I meant a player who can create an opportunity. Dejagah and Richardson can do that through pace, crossing and shooting. Danny Murphy could do it through spotting a pass. The trouble is that you can only play a creative pass if someone is there to receive the ball.

I knew that's what you meant and its true that we have not had a CM who could do that since Murphy.
Why the club were obsessed with signing central midfielders who couldn't pick out a player with a pass is a mystery

[FPT]

At the end of the day, it all goes hand in hand.

In 2008-09, under Roy Hodgson, we had our highest ever Premier League finish and we scored 39 goals, this year we scored 40... You don't need to score a load when you don't concede.

Look at us and Palace, we've scored 7 more than them, yet they have 13 more points than us.

I agree with the sentiment, you need to have the players for a Jol style of all out attack.

A lot of things add up, but we've got to look at how appalling we were defensively before elsewhere. We conceded only 4 (FOUR) less goals than the Derby team of 07-08... Yeah, that team that won 1 (ONE) game in a season and also finished the season with 11 (ELEVEN) points.

[JBH]

The only true creative player we have in the squad at this current time is Chris David

I fully believe Kasami would be a good creative midfielder  065.gif

But will they ever let him play that central role?

That is the million dollar question

[MJG]

At the end of the day, it all goes hand in hand.

In 2008-09, under Roy Hodgson, we had our highest ever Premier League finish and we scored 39 goals, this year we scored 40... You don't need to score a load when you don't concede.

Look at us and Palace, we've scored 7 more than them, yet they have 13 more points than us.

I agree with the sentiment, you need to have the players for a Jol style of all out attack.

A lot of things add up, but we've got to look at how appalling we were defensively before elsewhere. We conceded only 4 (FOUR) less goals than the Derby team of 07-08... Yeah, that team that won 1 (ONE) game in a season and also finished the season with 11 (ELEVEN) points.

Ahh but even in a drilled team like Roy's the moment we could attack we needed the 'creativity' of Danny and others to make those limited chances count.
Problem this year was with Parker and Sidwell mainly in those central positions, any pass above 5 yards distance was an issue.

[Lighthouse]

We need players to create space, hold onto the ball and bring in other players. Having a good creative midfielder or four is fine. But we need somebody to create space to allow them to create passes. We stuck with the wrong players too long in all areas. Best thing about last season is seeing two forwards playing as sort of forwards on the last game of the season.

We can have all the creative midfielders you like but if they don't have anybody to pass to, they end up doing a Wilkins and just passing sideways.

[domprague]

@Lighthouse
Spot on. When we tore into Liverpool we had Hugo and Richardson darting about and pulling their defence into such a mess they conceded an own goal.

[MJG]

We need players to create space, hold onto the ball and bring in other players. Having a good creative midfielder or four is fine. But we need somebody to create space to allow them to create passes. We stuck with the wrong players too long in all areas. Best thing about last season is seeing two forwards playing as sort of forwards on the last game of the season.

We can have all the creative midfielders you like but if they don't have anybody to pass to, they end up doing a Wilkins and just passing sideways.

I had a look at starting formations for the championship and the one used most was 4-4-2 33% of the time.
And teams  started with 2 up front (442/352/4312 etc) 48% of the time.

Compare that with the premier league and 4-2-3-1 was started 60% of the time.

Now I know its not as clear cut as that, but maybe does show the way forward as the top two teams played 4-4-2 pretty much the whole campaign.

[Burt]

To FPT's point, any successful side is built on a tight defence that doesn't ship goals. If the other buggers can't score then that's a point, at least.

Sorting out our back line is a priority.

[domprague]

Completely agree about the defence. I suppose what I was trying to say was that under Roy we were solid and organised at the back and still found space for players such as Murphy, Duff and Gera. Right now, we're shambolic at the back and don't seem to have any creative talent either.

[MasterHaynes]

When we talk about creativity what do we really think that means?

Is Dejagah creative?
Is Richardson creative?
Is Woodrow or Hugo creators?

Or do we mean a player who can play central, pick out the runs and make that pass that leads to a player scoring?

It is of course a combination of things. In the championship its going to be about pace and movement. That does not mean every player has to run around like a whippet, but if you dont make the runs and find space, then whoever has the ball has no chance to doing anything creative.

For me Chris David (and its not based on seeing him in one game) is the closest player we have to a creative midfielder. Played with two other CM's I think he is the type of player we need, as long as the others do their jobs. But we need another brought in as well. Would be a massive error to not have at least 2 midfielders who can play that role.

Agree with you MJG. I believe you also watch the U18's quite often, I've been really impressed with Hyndman this season, especially the way responsibility of being one of senior players sits on his shoulders. He really has thrived on it. For me he was the MOM in both legs of the final, involved in all 3 of the first leg goals and 3 of the 2nd leg and made key tackles in both legs. Do you think Hyndman could be knocking on the door in the latter stages of next season or too soon? bigger question is can we keep hold of him as he will be attractive to European clubs because of his flawless technique?

[MJG]

When I saw Hyndman last season I thought he's too small to make it.
This year has seen him grow both in size and confidence.
Next season is too soon for first team, I'd play him in u21's till Xmas and see how he is then.
If up to it try to loan him to a footballing L1 or L2.
Still time on his side and really depends on his progress and watching his team mates gets chances. More difficult for a cm than any other player to break through.

[MasterHaynes]

When I saw Hyndman last season I thought he's too small to make it.
This year has seen him grow both in size and confidence.
Next season is too soon for first team, I'd play him in u21's till Xmas and see how he is then.
If up to it try to loan him to a footballing L1 or L2.
Still time on his side and really depends on his progress and watching his team mates gets chances. More difficult for a cm than any other player to break through.

I thought the same as you last year but this season he has come on in leaps and bounds, just looking at him matched up against the giants of Chelsea he was still able to shrug them off, tackle,spin away from them at will and impose his will on the game. I don't think his size(though he appears to have grown significantly this year) will be a problem as it isn't for the likes of Alonso, Fabregas, Ozil or Cazorla. if he continues his development at this pace next year I hope we see him get a few outings frm the bench end of the season to start to ease him in and get him to sign a new contract extension before the likes of Arsenal come knocking.

[hovewhite]

Needed a young diarra ,summed up by felix,shields the back four and creates by spotting players in offensive positions further forward.

[love4ffc]

Sorting out the defense and the creativity should be one in the same. 

Hate to use chelski (please don't ban me) as an example but, it is their defense more times than not that develops their offensive attacks. 

If you look at the chelski back four (Cahill, Terry, Cole, Azpilcueta and Ivanovic) they are always looking to turn their defensive work into a quick attack.  How many times this past season did we see Ivanovic, Cole and Azpilcueta make driving runs out the back or do overlapping runs that developed into crosses?  Now look at their midfielder Ramires who controlled the defensive midfield and would link up with the overlapping runs to get into the attack.  That's what I want to see next year at Fulham. 

Don't just sort out the back but rather develop it into our best form of attack!
   
COYW!