NFR - Please help to settle a (legal) argument

[Airfix]

Bloke in my office stated the following (with a view to helping England to become more competitive in world football):

"They should use some of the TV money in the Premier League to incentivise clubs to use more English players"

Two of us have dismissed this as being against EU rules regarding employment of its citizens but he is adamant.

Who's right?

[alfie]

It may not be right, but i agree with him.

[Craven Mad]

Instinct is to say it'd be against the principle of free movement of workers. The Commission were "iffy" about the home grown player rule from UEFA. I think any further additions, particularly if by a single-nation, probably would be a breach - as directly discriminatory..

[westcliff white]

your right it is against EU movement laws, you cannot discriminate in any way against any person who has the right to move between EU countries to work under the freedom of work acts.

[Airfix]

your right it is against EU movement laws, you cannot discriminate in any way against any person who has the right to move between EU countries to work under the freedom of work acts.

I read this to him (and everyone nodded and agreed) and yet he STILL argues it.

Ah well, he is a West Ham fan, so a point only goes in once it is hammered (no pun intended) in!

[nose]

It is not just a case of EU employment rules.

For the TV companies to try and induce the teams to do anything like this would seem a very dangerous precedent, who knows where it might stop.

[Craven Mad]

your right it is against EU movement laws, you cannot discriminate in any way against any person who has the right to move between EU countries to work under the freedom of work acts.

I read this to him (and everyone nodded and agreed) and yet he STILL argues it.

Ah well, he is a West Ham fan, so a point only goes in once it is hammered (no pun intended) in!

Ahhhh, well that makes far more sense. After the Tevez/Mascherano scandal, everyone knows WestHam aren't bound by any employment laws! Just ask Neil Warnock..

Seriously though, he sounds like a bit of a div.

[Airfix]

Ahhhh, well that makes far more sense. After the Tevez/Mascherano scandal, everyone knows WestHam aren't bound by any employment laws! Just ask Neil Warnock..

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Seriously though, he sounds like a bit of a div.

No comment!

[westcliff white]

It is not just a case of EU employment rules.

For the TV companies to try and induce the teams to do anything like this would seem a very dangerous precedent, who knows where it might stop.

i dont think as i read it he was saying the TV companies should suggest this.

[DukeTyrion]

I don't think it's quite as clear as it may at first seem.

Certainly there are discrimination rules that come into force. But organisations are allowed to have their own sets of rules that are to be followed by all members.

For instance, all premier league teams are male only, yet there are no sex discrimination cases ...

[westcliff white]

I don't think it's quite as clear as it may at first seem.

Certainly there are discrimination rules that come into force. But organisations are allowed to have their own sets of rules that are to be followed by all members.

For instance, all premier league teams are male only, yet there are no sex discrimination cases ...

Thats a good point but the FA rules for youth football indicate that females after U15 age group are not allowed to be in a male team, due to changing rooms etc, so probably why it is never contested. That is more for their own decency / protection i guess.

Re organisations, if any organisation had written rule sin a governing document or handbook saying you can only use this money to employ English workers or male workers then it would be against EU law, any company doing so is one stupid but two liable for hefty fines and other sanctions etc.

[Craven Mad]

I don't think it's quite as clear as it may at first seem.

Certainly there are discrimination rules that come into force. But organisations are allowed to have their own sets of rules that are to be followed by all members.

For instance, all premier league teams are male only, yet there are no sex discrimination cases ...

Understood, but I doubt this would fall within an exception or margin. Particularly if only done in England, for the benefit of English players.

This is an interesting read: http://ec.europa.eu/sport/news/2013/20130828b-study-hgp-rule_en.htm

[bobby01]

Does it not work the other way as in "positive discrimination", ie we will have 50 women mps in the party, we will increase our level of different races in the police?

[TheManOnTheBus]

The EU rules only apply to movement of EU nationals.  We could easily (lawfully) impose restrictions on non-EU players.  Presumably though if we did it we'd only do it if adopted throughout all EU countries since otherwise then the elite will feel disadvantaged in the Champions League.

[Craven Mad]

Does it not work the other way as in "positive discrimination", ie we will have 50 women mps in the party, we will increase our level of different races in the police?

Positive discrimination can be ok if in the promotion of equality for underrepresented classes.

[Craven Mad]

The EU rules only apply to movement of EU nationals.  We could easily (lawfully) impose restrictions on non-EU players.  Presumably though if we did it we'd only do it if adopted throughout all EU countries since otherwise then the elite will feel disadvantaged in the Champions League.

Possible. But that wouldn't solve the problem of a lack of young English players getting regular game-time. That'd just inflate the value of all European players.

[HatterDon]

you can have a league in which the players are predominately British, or you can have a world-wide money-making league that's arguably the best in the world

but you can't have both

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

I don't think it's quite as clear as it may at first seem.

Certainly there are discrimination rules that come into force. But organisations are allowed to have their own sets of rules that are to be followed by all members.

For instance, all premier league teams are male only, yet there are no sex discrimination cases ...

Thats a good point but the FA rules for youth football indicate that females after U15 age group are not allowed to be in a male team, due to changing rooms etc, so probably why it is never contested. That is more for their own decency / protection i guess.

Re organisations, if any organisation had written rule sin a governing document or handbook saying you can only use this money to employ English workers or male workers then it would be against EU law, any company doing so is one stupid but two liable for hefty fines and other sanctions etc.

Didn't that apply in some places like Golf Clubs and Gentlemans Clubs where it was male only.
There's a simple solution, build female changing rooms, they have to do it in mixed sports competitions such as Athletics, Show Jumping and Tennis.
I'm sure there's many bars still in the Australian outback without female toilets, perhaps a broom cupboard in the pantry for Saturday nights.
Over here they have just passed a law (one of many in the LGBT 'regulations') which allows amongst other things transgenders to go and sit in female chaning rooms and toilets or teach in schools.    Now children todays subject is...............

[SouthfieldWhite]

I don't think it's quite as clear as it may at first seem.

Certainly there are discrimination rules that come into force. But organisations are allowed to have their own sets of rules that are to be followed by all members.

For instance, all premier league teams are male only, yet there are no sex discrimination cases ...

Thats a good point but the FA rules for youth football indicate that females after U15 age group are not allowed to be in a male team, due to changing rooms etc, so probably why it is never contested. That is more for their own decency / protection i guess.

Re organisations, if any organisation had written rule sin a governing document or handbook saying you can only use this money to employ English workers or male workers then it would be against EU law, any company doing so is one stupid but two liable for hefty fines and other sanctions etc.

Looks like the rule is changing this season, use to be up to 13s where females could play in the same team as boys, now u16s girls can now play in the same team as u16 boys

[MJG]

Its the 'incentive' part that makes the answer no. That would be seen as a financial payment to influence a team lineup.

The only way forward is quota's and will news to be passed by UEFA and EU.