FULHAM'S MAD DESCENT UNDER MAGATH

[Holders]

Management chose and management chooses the players.  My point is just that.  Management is firmly to blame for the woes that may well continue to haunt this club until  the whole executive structure (including the board) is cleaned out.
I suppose I have to come clean in declaring that Magath is not the man to take the club back up in my humble opinion.  He failed in what he was brought in to do.  I'm delighted he is introducing youth, but I won't be so delighted - neither will the young players - if he continues to chop and change, drop or move those young players after just one game.  His style will kill the golden goose.
But my beef is with the man who chose and appointed him.  I doubt that was Kahn.
Nogood "sticking the knife in the Mac, isit" Boyo

Yeah, I think you're the best poster on this forum.  Magath does not seem like the right fellow to develop young players, and as far as I can tell, he has already mismanaged and publicly criticized his top striker, McCormack.  I do think Burn needs to be put in the lineup, but you're right, last year Magath did chop and change a lot.  The team needs stability going forward.  If it doesn't work out this year, then one year under Magath isn't a bad way to give some fitness training and discipline to the youth players, but ultimately, I would like to see a manager with strong abilities to truly develop youngsters and who is going to bring a more positive attitude, being less frank in his comments to the media of individual players.

He has said that Mc.Cormack has a lack of fitness - because his transfer was delayed and he was not here for the beginning of pre-season. He was his selection and he played him. The fact that he took him off proved his point. How is he supposed to have mis-managed McCormack?

I've only seen Burn play a couple of times, I've not seen him close-up in training to see if he takes instruction and how he compares with others in his position so I cannot comment on whether he should play from a position of any valid knowledge.

As to not developing young players - well! He has a strong track-record in Germany of that and has had the courage to play many of ours where his predecessors did not.

I find his attitude to be ultra-positive and his comments thoughtful and tactful.

All of that does not make him a successful manager at Fulham, for that we'll have to wait and see.  

[Woolly Mammoth]

Sorry to disappoint you old timer grandad, but there is a whole family of us Woolly Mammoths, and we breed like Russell Brand after an over dose of Viagra, and your bones will be turned to dust before we are extinct. So put that in your Drainpipe and smoke it.

[Holders]

Sorry to disappoint you old timer grandad, but there is a whole family of us Woolly Mammoths, and we breed like Russell Brand after an over dose of Viagra, and your bones will be turned to dust before we are extinct. So put that in your Drainpipe and smoke it.

According to Andrew Sachs' daughter, Brand was crap in bed.

[NogoodBoyo]

Hi Toodles.
My point was that he stated he would keep us up.  He didn't.  It was probably beyond anybody's capabilities by that stage but I believe Rene might have stood a better chance.
The whole gist of my argument is that the players were completely shell-shocked by all the comings and goings that the rapid hiring/firing of Rene and the hiring of Magath were acts of utter folly contributing to even more management upheaval.  That made the task of staying up nigh on impossible.  And it will make the job of promotion very hard too.  In fact, badly managed clubs very often go the other way (I shudder to write that).  And we are a very badly managed club.
With Mac still at the helm and a somewhat unstable Magath fighting all comers beneath him, I fear even more debilitating change is on the way  But, we should stick with Magath until we've seen what effect he has on our talented youth.  If it's bad, he has to be dispatched quickly as we cannot afford to lose those diamonds in the rough.  If it's good, I suspect the club will do well.
Mac?  He should have gone last season once Wilkishley turned up, around and out and Rene was brought in and out with such unseemly haste.
Nogood "and let's not even start on the Greek glue pot, isit" Boyo

[NogoodBoyo]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

Hi Burt,
Long time no speak.  I haven't written Magath off.  I just have an enormous distaste for bully management.  I once worked for a small Australian with a massive brain.  His entire management creed was to humiliate and torment his staff with his superior intellect.  The good employees quickly found other jobs leaving him with youngsters, yes men and no hopers whose lives he made absolutely miserable.
Sound familiar?
I just don't think that's either the Fulham way or the management philosophy of an organisation that's geared for success in the long term.
But, as I laid out in my original piece, my principal complaint lies with the management who got us into this mess in the first place.  That's Mac.
Nogood "time to get your coat and hat, Mac, isit" Boyo

Hey Nogood, perhaps you have a point, though here's a slightly different take on it. If Felix IS that much of a strong character, then perhaps that is what is required to abate the intentions of Mac, and start putting the club back on an even keel again. I don't think many people will argue that Mac has royally nutted this all up, especially his purchase of the glue man in January, and so I am willing to let Felix have his rope, and if it all goes rats, then it will become a noose, if not, then we are all winners.

Logical as ever Logical
I'm afraid I have little faith in strong characters who resort to intimidation as a management tool.  It works in the short term sometimes.  I fear for Roberts, Woodrow, David, Hyndman and Dembele.  I just hope he doesn't break those golden eggs.  Last year's example of how he managed Burn and how he's looking at him this year leads me to believe the omens are not good. 
Nogood "good game, good game, isit" Boyo

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Hi Toodles.
My point was that he stated he would keep us up.  He didn't.  It was probably beyond anybody's capabilities by that stage but I believe Rene might have stood a better chance.
The whole gist of my argument is that the players were completely shell-shocked by all the comings and goings that the rapid hiring/firing of Rene and the hiring of Magath were acts of utter folly contributing to even more management upheaval.  That made the task of staying up nigh on impossible.  And it will make the job of promotion very hard too.  In fact, badly managed clubs very often go the other way (I shudder to write that).  And we are a very badly managed club.
With Mac still at the helm and a somewhat unstable Magath fighting all comers beneath him, I fear even more debilitating change is on the way  But, we should stick with Magath until we've seen what effect he has on our talented youth.  If it's bad, he has to be dispatched quickly as we cannot afford to lose those diamonds in the rough.  If it's good, I suspect the club will do well.
Mac?  He should have gone last season once Wilkishley turned up, around and out and Rene was brought in and out with such unseemly haste.
Nogood "and let's not even start on the Greek glue pot, isit" Boyo

Isn't it strange that under Khan `Mac' has made all these blatant mistakes and yet he is still in his job?

[YoungsBitter]

Management chose and management chooses the players.  My point is just that.  Management is firmly to blame for the woes that may well continue to haunt this club until  the whole executive structure (including the board) is cleaned out.
I suppose I have to come clean in declaring that Magath is not the man to take the club back up in my humble opinion.  He failed in what he was brought in to do.  I'm delighted he is introducing youth, but I won't be so delighted - neither will the young players - if he continues to chop and change, drop or move those young players after just one game.  His style will kill the golden goose.
But my beef is with the man who chose and appointed him.  I doubt that was Kahn.
Nogood "sticking the knife in the Mac, isit" Boyo

Yeah, I think you're the best poster on this forum.  Magath does not seem like the right fellow to develop young players, and as far as I can tell, he has already mismanaged and publicly criticized his top striker, McCormack.  I do think Burn needs to be put in the lineup, but you're right, last year Magath did chop and change a lot.  The team needs stability going forward.  If it doesn't work out this year, then one year under Magath isn't a bad way to give some fitness training and discipline to the youth players, but ultimately, I would like to see a manager with strong abilities to truly develop youngsters and who is going to bring a more positive attitude, being less frank in his comments to the media of individual players.

He has said that Mc.Cormack has a lack of fitness - because his transfer was delayed and he was not here for the beginning of pre-season. He was his selection and he played him. The fact that he took him off proved his point. How is he supposed to have mis-managed McCormack?

I've only seen Burn play a couple of times, I've not seen him close-up in training to see if he takes instruction and how he compares with others in his position so I cannot comment on whether he should play from a position of any valid knowledge.

As to not developing young players - well! He has a strong track-record in Germany of that and has had the courage to play many of ours where his predecessors did not.

I find his attitude to be ultra-positive and his comments thoughtful and tactful.

All of that does not make him a successful manager at Fulham, for that we'll have to wait and see.  

[/quote]

He has said that Mc.Cormack has a lack of fitness - because his transfer was delayed and he was not here for the beginning of pre-season. He was his selection and he played him. The fact that he took him off proved his point. How is he supposed to have mis-managed McCormack?

I've only seen Burn play a couple of times, I've not seen him close-up in training to see if he takes instruction and how he compares with others in his position so I cannot comment on whether he should play from a position of any valid knowledge.

As to not developing young players - well! He has a strong track-record in Germany of that and has had the courage to play many of ours where his predecessors did not.

I find his attitude to be ultra-positive and his comments thoughtful and tactful.

All of that does not make him a successful manager at Fulham, for that we'll have to wait and see.  
[/quote]
I agree 100% with what you say.
We tend to take his media image as fact (bullying, intimidation and god forbid, high expectations of professionalism) and ignore what we see and hear from him. The Burn at right back situation has been done to death, it was to stop Stoke long ball to Crouch/Walters and he had a more traditional right back in front of him for cover; plus as we have seen with pre-season and Ipswich he likes to have a 3 center back line up with 2 wing backs in front.
We parrot the line about giving young talent a chance then when someone does give them the chance we bleat we need more experience. Lets see how he continues to develop our talented kids into an effective team with their more experienced colleagues and enjoy it.
I enjoyed watching us outplay Ipswich last Saturday way more than most of last year's games, even if we did manage to concede 2 terrible defensive error driven goals. As I have said before, we will get better and Ipswich will not.

[jmh]

Thank goodness nearly all Woolly Mammoths are extinct. One to go.

:005:

[Skatzoffc]

Can we wait until we've played a home game before we write off the the whole season pls?

COYW!

[Burt]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

It's been more than one game.  What about last year?  It's a long enough time that people are going to have a sense of what he is about... some people are going to like that, others not.  Personally, I think he ought to be given the year to prove himself with his new squad, even if I am not a believer in his approach.  The club needs stability.

Last season he inherited a bum squad.

This season is his squad and his back room staff. No excuses. Succeed and it's down to him. Fail and it's down to him. But we can't judge this so soon in to the new season. Give him a decent chance, and let's have some stability.

[mangoputney]

Isn't it strange that under Khan `Mac' has made all these blatant mistakes and yet he is still in his job?
[/quote]

+1

I really don't get this obsession with Burn at RB... Relegated way before then

I'm just sick of losing. Only the players can shake that. Just hoping these lesser paid lads put in a lot more effort for the cause than those topping up the retirement fund. Surely then there be a more positive feeling in and amongst FFC


Disclaimer... We couldn't ask for a more difficult opening 8 fixture IMO and got a horrible feeling the axe will fall again. Clueless owner, Ran by Teflon coated Mac and ?controversial? Manager

Felix... Prove us wrong. Please.

Decent GK CB CDM will make a world of difference ... Tick tock tick tock

[Forever Fulham]

It's unfair to Magath to heap all of the blame, or even much of it, on the players' poor showing under his management at the end of last season.  Yes, it was Rene who started experimenting.  What do we know for sure?  We know that on paper, we have a pretty formidable squad for Championship.  Not all of the quality players with experience have left the club...yet.   They aren't all youngsters.  This squad is fit and fairly deep.    If he incorporates the best of them into a starting XI, this team can go far.  But he hasn't done that yet.  The first game did not feature the best XI he could put on the field.  That's my biggest issue now.  And he still needs a proven defensive center mid with wheels who can distribute and still, as a defender, break up the developing play, or at least slow it down, buying time for the back to organize.  I know most of you love Scott Parker, but he's not the guy the club needs in that role.  Lastly, I'm worried about our goalkeeping.  Who is our absolute Number 1?  I'm insecure about the goalkeepers.

[Burt]

Hey here's a crazy thought...

Why don't we give Felix more than one game before writing him off?

Hi Burt,
Long time no speak.  I haven't written Magath off.  I just have an enormous distaste for bully management.  I once worked for a small Australian with a massive brain.  His entire management creed was to humiliate and torment his staff with his superior intellect.  The good employees quickly found other jobs leaving him with youngsters, yes men and no hopers whose lives he made absolutely miserable.
Sound familiar?
I just don't think that's either the Fulham way or the management philosophy of an organisation that's geared for success in the long term.
But, as I laid out in my original piece, my principal complaint lies with the management who got us into this mess in the first place.  That's Mac.
Nogood "time to get your coat and hat, Mac, isit" Boyo

Hey Mr Nogood, good to see you active once more :)

Sorry this wasn't a dig at you, just my general opinion!

Is he a bully? How do we know that?

Just because he doesn't mind making tough decisions, doesn't care about being popular, doesn't want players who don't want to play for us, and has caused a ripple or two by introducing a new fitness regime that will hopefully see the players capable of lasting through to the final whistle rather than the customary 75 minute mark is all good with me... Shades of Tigana, in fact.

If he is humiliating and tormenting his staff as per the Aussie boss you had, then yes, I agree, no place for that in our club...

As he has a new team to shape and as he looks like Penfold I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt... First 10 games should be sufficient to get a view as to whether we are heading in the right direction or continuing with the oblivion that was last season.

[Woolly Mammoth]

No Holders you have misinformed once again. He was not crap in bed. What his granddaughter said was he had a crap in her bed.

[Berserker]

Once we start winning again I will feel happier. At the moment our run of losing last season is just continuing this season

Also I'm stressed about not having a good experienced goalkeeper

[Holders]

No Holders you have misinformed once again. He was not crap in bed. What his granddaughter said was he had a crap in her bed.

Ok, it was his grand-daughter who said he was no good in bed.

[grandad]

Sorry to disappoint you old timer grandad, but there is a whole family of us Woolly Mammoths, and we breed like Russell Brand after an over dose of Viagra, and your bones will be turned to dust before we are extinct. So put that in your Drainpipe and smoke it.

You have been watching too much Ice Age.

[Woolly Mammoth]

And you Grandad Old Timer have been watching too much Old Age. But I will let you off this time.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Hearsay and Third Party information Holders. All circumstantial or circumstised  information.