More changes to the Starting line up:

[TonyGilroy]

He can't play them all though.

Maybe their chance will come or maybe Magath doesn't rate them. Maybe some are seen as reserves - we do need those after all.

Maybe Voser, quite simply, is at the club to cover for Hoogland who has had serious injury problems in the past.

Kakaniklic has blown warm and cold in his time at the club, Chihi who knows?

[FRTom]

He can't play them all though.

Maybe their chance will come or maybe Magath doesn't rate them. Maybe some are seen as reserves - we do need those after all.

Maybe Voser, quite simply, is at the club to cover for Hoogland who has had serious injury problems in the past.

Kakaniklic has blown warm and cold in his time at the club, Chihi who knows?

Yeh seems fair enough, just seems a waste that a player with Champions League experience doesn't even make the bench.

[filham]

I would have expected the pre  season games to have been used to experiment with players and systems so that we could start the season without  having to experiment .

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

What happened after the Ipswich game was that Magath left out Hutchinson and Dembele who were clearly the weakest links. McCormack wasn't deemed fit enough to start and Rodallega given a start, something urged on Magath by most posters.

Moving Burgess back left a vacancy in midfield for LVC. Eisner was preferred to David, the impression being given that they are effectively sharing a place.

The very impressive George Williams was given a start.

I see nothing unreasonable in any of that. He could have named an unchanged team in which case he'd have been accused of obstinacy and favouritism.

I get that we're not winning and that Magath will be criticised until we do but
have some patience people. And some understanding of what Magath is trying to do.

He helped by writing us a letter on Friday.

McCormack wasn't fit enough to start against Ipswich so why did he?

Dembele seemed to be used as a target man having to get up for many headers. I've not seen him play in that style in the few times I've seen him for the u18s where they play the ball on the ground. Either the tactics were wrong or he was the wrong choice.

Starting Burgess as defensive midfield at the start against Ipswich was pretty odd.

I like Williams and think he is an effective winger but against Ipswich we played the diamond with the full backs providing the width and the switched to having Wiiliams as a winger against Millwall.

I don't see the gradual progression towards an agreed system and towards partnerships such as the centre half pairing or the forward pairing. A change of system and four player chanages is too many.

We ought by now to be focussed on one system and  be making just a couple of changes of player otherwise it is difficult to tell which of those changes have helped or hindered our performance.

[hovewhite]

I am waiting to see how it settles in about  15 games in.my hope is we play 2 strikers v wolves,
Defense wise I felt we were ok sat.cauley must start v wolves for me.

[RidgeRider]

Manager wants to see players in action shock.  

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

The manager sees the players in action all week in training. He should have a good idea from that of their capabilities and the combinations that work best.

Managers and coaches get their players to practice formations and tactics in training. Competitive games are not the place to give everyone a chance to play by making four changes from game to game.

Training ground superstars are 'a dime a dozen'.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Manager wants to see players in action shock. 

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

The manager sees the players in action all week in training. He should have a good idea from that of their capabilities and the combinations that work best.

Managers and coaches get their players to practice formations and tactics in training. Competitive games are not the place to give everyone a chance to play by making four changes from game to game.

Training ground superstars are 'a dime a dozen'.

Presumably a manager with all Magath's experience and his Bundesliga titles can tell the difference between a training ground superstar and an effective player.

[dannyboi-ffc]

What happened after the Ipswich game was that Magath left out Hutchinson and Dembele who were clearly the weakest links. McCormack wasn't deemed fit enough to start and Rodallega given a start, something urged on Magath by most posters.

Moving Burgess back left a vacancy in midfield for LVC. Eisner was preferred to David, the impression being given that they are effectively sharing a place.

The very impressive George Williams was given a start.

I see nothing unreasonable in any of that. He could have named an unchanged team in which case he'd have been accused of obstinacy and favouritism.

I get that we're not winning and that Magath will be criticised until we do but
have some patience people. And some understanding of what Magath is trying to do.

He helped by writing us a letter on Friday.

I see something very worryingly wrong with the idea magath felt trying out lvc next to parker and hyndman instead of letting woodrow play in a two with hugo was a better option. And before people start, he must of thought it was a better option to try it out.

What has woodrow exactly done wrong? For me hes the youngster most ready to start in the first team.

I have no problem with him tweeking 1 maybe 2 players at the minute to try and figure out what suits our system best, but we dont have a system to start with. Both line ups were set up completely different and both half worked and half didnt. Im not saying either way was the wrong approach but rather than completely changing against wolves. How about we play the system we played 2nd half against millwall and rectify the obvious weaknesses.

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

Manager wants to see players in action shock.  

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

A bit Nationalistic !

[dannyboi-ffc]

Manager wants to see players in action shock.  

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

The manager sees the players in action all week in training. He should have a good idea from that of their capabilities and the combinations that work best.

Managers and coaches get their players to practice formations and tactics in training. Competitive games are not the place to give everyone a chance to play by making four changes from game to game.

Training ground superstars are 'a dime a dozen'.

Presumably a manager with all Magath's experience and his Bundesliga titles can tell the difference between a training ground superstar and an effective player.

Tell that to joe kinnear who won the fa cup with wimbledon. Im getting bored of this past glory nonsense, winning the league with wolfsburg is ver impressive but so what if he won the league with bayern munich. They werent exactly fulham were they. Clubs like that can just turn up and win leagues sometimes, especially the time he won them when not many german clubs could compete.

How much has dyche pearson, kenny jackett,  mackay won? I couldnt give a flying love whether the manager is english, german or from mars but I also couldnt care less about trophies he won with superstars in a club so many miles away from what fulham are that its not even relevant. Do you think mourinho would of beaten chelsea last night if he was burnley manager just because of what hes won in his career?

It takes a completely different manager/ personality/ approach with every single part of the football pyramid. All I care about is if a manager suits fulham and at tHe moment the juries out

[Holders]

Manager wants to see players in action shock.  

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

A bit Nationalistic !

It's not like they've ever done any good in the World Cup or anything.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Manager wants to see players in action shock.  

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

The manager sees the players in action all week in training. He should have a good idea from that of their capabilities and the combinations that work best.

Managers and coaches get their players to practice formations and tactics in training. Competitive games are not the place to give everyone a chance to play by making four changes from game to game.

Training ground superstars are 'a dime a dozen'.

Presumably a manager with all Magath's experience and his Bundesliga titles can tell the difference between a training ground superstar and an effective player.

Tell that to joe kinnear who won the fa cup with wimbledon. Im getting bored of this past glory nonsense, winning the league with wolfsburg is ver impressive but so what if he won the league with bayern munich. They werent exactly fulham were they. Clubs like that can just turn up and win leagues sometimes, especially the time he won them when not many german clubs could compete.

How much has dyche pearson, kenny jackett,  mackay won? I couldnt give a flying fcuk whether the manager is english, german or from mars but I also couldnt care less about trophies he won with superstars in a club so many miles away from what fulham are that its not even relevant. Do you think mourinho would of beaten chelsea last night if he was burnley manager just because of what hes won in his career?

It takes a completely different manager/ personality/ approach with every single part of the football pyramid. All I care about is if a manager suits fulham and at tHe moment the juries out

I'm on side with you.

I'm making the point against the idea that a manager needs to see the players in a competitive environment to sort out the `training ground superstars' from the effective players.

We are constantly being told of Magth's experience and Bundesliga titles so you would hope that he could sort out the good from the ordinary without having to try each in turn.

[Lighthouse]

Surely the point is that as none of the players have ever been seen in a competitive game at this level, bar a few. It seems to make sense for a manager to hold out the carrot to players and tell them they all still have a chance, especially when we lose. He needs to see players play at this level. Playing youth football and training really isn't the same.

[RidgeRider]

Manager wants to see players in action shock. 

It's not the fact that the manager wants to see his players in action that's the problem, it's the fact that the GERMAN manager wants to see his players in action that's bothering everyone.

The manager sees the players in action all week in training. He should have a good idea from that of their capabilities and the combinations that work best.

Managers and coaches get their players to practice formations and tactics in training. Competitive games are not the place to give everyone a chance to play by making four changes from game to game.

Training ground superstars are 'a dime a dozen'.

Presumably a manager with all Magath's experience and his Bundesliga titles can tell the difference between a training ground superstar and an effective player.

If you haven't worked with the players before the only way to know is to play them in matches. This is nearly an entirely new team from last year and a different league. The season just started and preseason doesn't tell the whole story with players.

[jmh]

I witnessed quite a few ex Fulham players on the pitch this week-end with other prem. teams. Jol was the root of our problem due to his inability to get along with a few decent players. Just saying.

I think this mis-states the problem.  Many players liked Jol a lot; we were able to sign some big names like Berbatov and Parker and Stekelenburg, in no small part, because he was here and they were familiar with him.  (Note that I say big names meaning that they were high-profile signings, not because they had the desired impact at Fulham.)  The problem was that he didn't seem to have much of an understanding of tactics but, rather, seemed to think that if he just put a lot of good players on the field at the same time then good play and results would follow.  Go back and read/listen to his interviews and you'll often hear him saying something like "we need more goals" or "there are goals in this team" but there didn't seem to be much about how those goals were going to come about (or how we were going to defend, as a team, to prevent goals at the other end, which is why we saw so much of Parker and Sidwell playing together when clearly they didn't work well as a pairing in terms of supporting the defenders).  To me, this, and not anything fuzzy like "the players didn't get along with him" or "he didn't motivate them to play hard enough", is the reason things went so wrong.

[alfie]

And whilst I agree the line up had to be changed after ipswich, and again after millwall his comments hide the fact that the only reason changes were needed both times was because of his strange choices which didnt pay off. He seems to blame the players for everything, in both games the players looked pretty good but the tactics were awful.

So if he means lvc will be replaced by david and we will play two up top, maybe let burn have a go too then I welcome those changes. But if he tries to be a smart arse and swap stafylidis forkavanagh or bodurov for hutchinson etc then I think hes wasting everyones time and he might as well let billy the badger play

What tactics were awful? from what I saw we outplayed Millwall for a considerable amount of time, the goal came from a simple defensive error.

[TonyGilroy]

Too much of the criticism is posters saying what team and tactics they want (by definition sensible) and contrasting it with the obvious madness of Magath's choices.

[FRTom]

Actually the Wimbledon manager in 1988 was Bobby Gould...

[Arthur]

So if he means lvc will be replaced by david and we will play two up top, maybe let burn have a go too then I welcome those changes. But if he tries to be a smart arse and swap stafylidis forkavanagh or bodurov for hutchinson etc then I think hes wasting everyones time and he might as well let billy the badger play

And herein lies the issue.

We are all happy for Felix to change the starting XI - so long as it's the changes we approve of.

One person's preferred changes, however, are not necessarily the same as the next person's.

Personally, I feel that Billy the Badger could do a tidy little job in front of the back four.

[YoungsBitter]

We have played 2 games of a very long season with a brand new squad.
We have three games within 8 days following a fitness focused pre-season foreshortened by the World Cup.
Why on earth would anyone expect Magath to field exactly the same team?
We are using our squad.
We may have lost but in both games we played better football than the majority of last year's whole campaign.
We lost due to individual errors.
We could have scored 4 or 5 on Saturday but the rub of the green went Millwall's way.
So I think that Magath is doing exactly what we would want, rotating and developing his squad for options and seeing in real game pressure situations what can work with these players and what does not.
He is building a sustainable team squad of the very good young mixed with the older heads to help out - 8 players who featured on Saturday were 21 and under. When we do get promoted we will have a squad that has real depth and we can then sustain in the Premiership, surely what we all want?
Reminder too in the year that Newcastle got relegated and promoted 09-10 season by end of October they had won 5, drawn 3 and lost 3 and been knocked out of the League Cup. This is a long season so FFS have some patience!