NFR: Are nursery rhymes an insult to a child's intelligence?

[Berserker]

Oh I'm really interested in reading the original Grimm fairy tales, must look that up

[epsomraver]

They're a learning tool for infants with their roots often in history. Same goes for fairy tales which often have pretty horrific forebears - e.g if you read Grimm in the original.

At least they're more profound than football chants - simple tunes for simple people.

I love football chants........

I don't takes too long to learn the words :005:

[Holders]

Oh I'm really interested in reading the original Grimm fairy tales, must look that up

I've got two volumes of the original somewhere but can't find them since I've moved. Also four volumes of "British Folk Tales" (author Briggs) which might be more accessible than Grimm in 18th or 19th century German. .

[nose]

I used to ask questions like these and there actually two answers.
1. some nursery rhymes have value in helping with alphabet skills and more usually numeracy, such as 10 in a bed and 5 little speckled frogs.
2. But the more classic stuff was largely based on historical stuff so seems less relevant today. The grand old duke for instance, really did do all that marching, some said because he was mad, but actually he did it to make a valid political point that for the love of me I cannot quite recall and am not about to look up. For these, the value now is considered in parent and child joining in together witha bit of fun and teaching culture. Whatever you do with an infant that is a joint activity whether singing, reading going to the park, taking them to see fulham play.
Actually as the child grows older it is uinteresting to look up and discuss the origins of the rhymes and that heps start an interest in history.

BUT they are of great value.

[epsomraver]

I used to ask questions like these and there actually two answers.
1. some nursery rhymes have value in helping with alphabet skills and more usually numeracy, such as 10 in a bed and 5 little speckled frogs.
2. But the more classic stuff was largely based on historical stuff so seems less relevant today. The grand old duke for instance, really did do all that marching, some said because he was mad, but actually he did it to make a valid political point that for the love of me I cannot quite recall and am not about to look up. For these, the value now is considered in parent and child joining in together witha bit of fun and teaching culture. Whatever you do with an infant that is a joint activity whether singing, reading going to the park, taking them to see fulham play.
Actually as the child grows older it is uinteresting to look up and discuss the origins of the rhymes and that heps start an interest in history.

BUT they are of great value.

The words of the Nursery rhyme are believed to refer to Richard, Duke of York, claimant to the English throne and Protector of England and the Battle of Wakefield on December 30, 1460. The Duke of York and his army marched to his castle at Sandal where Richard took up a defensive position against the Lancastrian army. Sandal Castle was built on top of the site of an old Norman motte and bailey fortress. Its massive earthworks stood 33 feet (10m) above the original ground level ("he marched them up to the top of the hill"). In a moment of madness he left his stronghold in the castle and went down to make a direct attack on the Lancastrians " he marched them down again". His army was overwhelmed and Richard the Duke of York was killed. A similar Nursery rhyme is The King of France went up the hill.

[nose]

I used to ask questions like these and there actually two answers.
1. some nursery rhymes have value in helping with alphabet skills and more usually numeracy, such as 10 in a bed and 5 little speckled frogs.
2. But the more classic stuff was largely based on historical stuff so seems less relevant today. The grand old duke for instance, really did do all that marching, some said because he was mad, but actually he did it to make a valid political point that for the love of me I cannot quite recall and am not about to look up. For these, the value now is considered in parent and child joining in together witha bit of fun and teaching culture. Whatever you do with an infant that is a joint activity whether singing, reading going to the park, taking them to see fulham play.
Actually as the child grows older it is uinteresting to look up and discuss the origins of the rhymes and that heps start an interest in history.

BUT they are of great value.

The words of the Nursery rhyme are believed to refer to Richard, Duke of York, claimant to the English throne and Protector of England and the Battle of Wakefield on December 30, 1460. The Duke of York and his army marched to his castle at Sandal where Richard took up a defensive position against the Lancastrian army. Sandal Castle was built on top of the site of an old Norman motte and bailey fortress. Its massive earthworks stood 33 feet (10m) above the original ground level ("he marched them up to the top of the hill"). In a moment of madness he left his stronghold in the castle and went down to make a direct attack on the Lancastrians " he marched them down again". His army was overwhelmed and Richard the Duke of York was killed. A similar Nursery rhyme is The King of France went up the hill.

Amazingly interesting explanation, and not the one as told to me. I know many of these rhymes have multiple conflicting possible explanations and the one I had heard was more of a political point than necessarily factual event, and as I said I cannot quite recall the context. I will try and find it later (I am supposed to be working now but I feel sure the boss will indulge me for this cultural exchange).

Isn't it strange how the OP asked an apparently innocent question and her we are talking about the Battle of Wakefield.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgie_Porgie

georgie pordgy nursery rhyme also has historical origins, according to this link

[Holders]

I used to ask questions like these and there actually two answers.
1. some nursery rhymes have value in helping with alphabet skills and more usually numeracy, such as 10 in a bed and 5 little speckled frogs.
2. But the more classic stuff was largely based on historical stuff so seems less relevant today. The grand old duke for instance, really did do all that marching, some said because he was mad, but actually he did it to make a valid political point that for the love of me I cannot quite recall and am not about to look up. For these, the value now is considered in parent and child joining in together witha bit of fun and teaching culture. Whatever you do with an infant that is a joint activity whether singing, reading going to the park, taking them to see fulham play.
Actually as the child grows older it is uinteresting to look up and discuss the origins of the rhymes and that heps start an interest in history.

BUT they are of great value.

The words of the Nursery rhyme are believed to refer to Richard, Duke of York, claimant to the English throne and Protector of England and the Battle of Wakefield on December 30, 1460. The Duke of York and his army marched to his castle at Sandal where Richard took up a defensive position against the Lancastrian army. Sandal Castle was built on top of the site of an old Norman motte and bailey fortress. Its massive earthworks stood 33 feet (10m) above the original ground level ("he marched them up to the top of the hill"). In a moment of madness he left his stronghold in the castle and went down to make a direct attack on the Lancastrians " he marched them down again". His army was overwhelmed and Richard the Duke of York was killed. A similar Nursery rhyme is The King of France went up the hill.

Amazingly interesting explanation, and not the one as told to me. I know many of these rhymes have multiple conflicting possible explanations and the one I had heard was more of a political point than necessarily factual event, and as I said I cannot quite recall the context. I will try and find it later (I am supposed to be working now but I feel sure the boss will indulge me for this cultural exchange).

Isn't it strange how the OP asked an apparently innocent question and her we are talking about the Battle of Wakefield.

Isn't this the case with many sayings or common phrases? That over time they have taken on so many alternative plausible, probably equally correct, meanings once you just scratch the surface?

In the same way as certain forms of philosophy (circumventing one of the subjects we're not supposed to discuss on here) were put together so as to accommodate many alternative meanings for different people. It was the best way to secure adherence and put bums on seats. You have to pick it apart to understand it.

What gullible but paradoxically complex creatures we are.

Nursery rhymes are by no means an insult to children's' intelligence, on the contrary they are very abstruse - much more so than football songs which are supposedly for adults!

[Sheepskin Junior]

now im all for pretending an egg is an actual person.

Got a very weird look from those around me at work when I read that. It's been a quiet day. Absolutely in stitches

[dannyboi-ffc]

I used to ask questions like these and there actually two answers.
1. some nursery rhymes have value in helping with alphabet skills and more usually numeracy, such as 10 in a bed and 5 little speckled frogs.
2. But the more classic stuff was largely based on historical stuff so seems less relevant today. The grand old duke for instance, really did do all that marching, some said because he was mad, but actually he did it to make a valid political point that for the love of me I cannot quite recall and am not about to look up. For these, the value now is considered in parent and child joining in together witha bit of fun and teaching culture. Whatever you do with an infant that is a joint activity whether singing, reading going to the park, taking them to see fulham play.
Actually as the child grows older it is uinteresting to look up and discuss the origins of the rhymes and that heps start an interest in history.

BUT they are of great value.

The words of the Nursery rhyme are believed to refer to Richard, Duke of York, claimant to the English throne and Protector of England and the Battle of Wakefield on December 30, 1460. The Duke of York and his army marched to his castle at Sandal where Richard took up a defensive position against the Lancastrian army. Sandal Castle was built on top of the site of an old Norman motte and bailey fortress. Its massive earthworks stood 33 feet (10m) above the original ground level ("he marched them up to the top of the hill"). In a moment of madness he left his stronghold in the castle and went down to make a direct attack on the Lancastrians " he marched them down again". His army was overwhelmed and Richard the Duke of York was killed. A similar Nursery rhyme is The King of France went up the hill.

Amazingly interesting explanation, and not the one as told to me. I know many of these rhymes have multiple conflicting possible explanations and the one I had heard was more of a political point than necessarily factual event, and as I said I cannot quite recall the context. I will try and find it later (I am supposed to be working now but I feel sure the boss will indulge me for this cultural exchange).

Isn't it strange how the OP asked an apparently innocent question and her we are talking about the Battle of Wakefield.

People probably think that im a numpty for analysing humpty dumpty (little rhyme there). But how refreshing is it to escape the world of felix magath and relegation by discussing something so random. Just because its a fulham forum it doesnt mean every thread has to strictly be about ffc.

The fact so many of you have responded in such an intellectual way suggests maybe you like talking about nursery rhymes more than you thought you would.

As for the battle of wakefield lol...... I never saw that one coming

[Rupert]

As for the battle of wakefield lol...... I never saw that one coming

Neither did Richard of York.  093.gif

[dannyboi-ffc]

As for the battle of wakefield lol...... I never saw that one coming

Neither did Richard of York.  093.gif

Haha so true rupert the bear!