Long Ball (sort of Fulham related)

[GrahamG]

A lot of the talk here has been of the 'tactics' we employ - ie lumping the ball forward inaccurately to forwards who are not designed for the task of making use of the tactic. I watched some of the West Ham game on TV this afternoon. The much maligned Big Sam's team getting the ball forward as quickly as possible but with purpose. A terrific (if injury-prone) 'target man' supported by good wide players and pace and power all over the pitch. Twelve months ago West Ham were worse than us and I'm sure most on here will be 'sniffy' about their style of football. I've always hated West Ham (I was there when we lost 7-2 and some years later a Cup Final) but when Carroll headed his first goal today my immediate thought was 'that is a proper football goal'.  I'd be very happy to watch football like that but not at West Ham. In all our years in the Premiership I do not remember us sitting in the top 4 after 15 games. I don't think it will last for them but I'm jealous!

[fulhamben]

wasnt we right up there the season we sold saha?

[GrahamG]

Fulhamben - Doesn't change my thinking but, you're right, we were 4th on 7th December 2003.

[RaySmith]

As far as I'm concerned good football is football that gets results - and our results under Kit generally have been good - especially compared to what went before.

[filham]

I like to see a mixture of short on the ground football and  long balls to pacey wingers who can deliver quick dangerous crosses. winger.

I would much prefer to see a good long ball game as played by Allardyce/Carroll than the game we are playing at the moment with numerous high punts upfield with no target man to receive them.

[Burt]

I have to say that whilst I am still of the mind that Kit needs time to sort out the mess he has inherited from numerous regimes over the past couple of years, I am a bit disappointed in where things have been heading recently given (a)his playing career was all about strong defence, and (b)the development squads he managed have by and large been committed to the passing game.

Hopefully this is all transition rather than a statement of what our playing style is going to be like.

[MJG]

Lets have a look at our long ball game compared to the other 23 teams this season.
So we average 74 long balls per game. putting us in 20th place.
Short passing we are actually 6th.

[fulhamben]

Lets have a look at our long ball game compared to the other 23 teams this season.
So we average 74 long balls per game. putting us in 20th place.
Short passing we are actually 6th.

i wonder how many of those short passes are in our own half though. i should imagine an attacks with long range against short range would put us a bit further up the table.

[MJG]

Lets compare with Derby who are seen as the best 'passing side'

On average they make 438 short passes per game (Fulham 363)

On average in Derby games the ball is in Derbys first third 28% of the time (Fulham 30%)

In middle 3rd for Derby 42% (Fulham 43%)

In opposition 3rd 29% (Fulham 27%)

Derby pass success is 81.7 (Fulham 77.9)

[fulhamben]

Lets compare with Derby who are seen as the best 'passing side'

On average they make 438 short passes per game (Fulham 363)

On average in Derby games the ball is in Derbys first third 28% of the time (Fulham 30%)

In middle 3rd for Derby 42% (Fulham 43%)

In opposition 3rd 29% (Fulham 27%)

Derby pass success is 81.7 (Fulham 77.9)

you would need average ball posseion to gauge that acurately though, as our 27% in their third could just be them knocking it about the back four, which it was against watford.

[MJG]

We are about 50% and Derby 55% in possession stats

[MJG]

These figures are averages and of course one one game you will be high in some areas and low in others.
But stats point to us not being a long ball team compared to others.

[fulhamben]

We are about 50% and Derby 55% in possession stats

i find that hard to believe, we are always under the cosh.

[RaySmith]

Remember that Magath had us playing a short passing game, that was very ineffective.

I doubt Kit is committed to any particular football philosophy, and just tries to play the way he feels will be most effective with the players we've got, and facing the opposition we do.

[MJG]

We are about 50% and Derby 55% in possession stats

i find that hard to believe, we are always under the cosh.

What can I say Opta lie just about us.

[J.Perkins]

The Championship is about getting results, what ever the style of play. The problem is our team is not set up for the long ball. Neither of our center backs can pass, and Rodallega won't win every header. We need to scrap the long ball and employ the passing game.

[hovewhite]

Hugo wins less than 50% of long balls it is a wasted ball to often hugo needs a ball in front of him to run onto,that's his strength.

[Shredhead]

I've watched us getting shredded by diagonal balls into the space behind the back 4. Why can't we do the same?

[Ordar]

So I pulled together these stats, nothing groundbreaking (nor to do with long ball, just related to possession, shots on target (SOn), shots on target by opposition (SCon), goals for (GFor) and against (GAg)

Under Symons               
               
Opposition   Poss      SOn SCon GFor GAg
Watford   38.00%   2   10   0   5
Brighton   48.00%   3   4   2   1
Brentford   36.00%   5   9   0   1
Hudders   46.00%   6   3   3   1
Blackpool   76.00%   9   3   2   2
Wigan   46.00%   4   8   3   3
Derby LC   47.00%   6   9   2   5
Charlton   50.00%   6   3   3   0
Rotherham   47.00%   9   4   3   3
Norwich   38.00%   3   1   1   0
Middlesbor   59.00%   5   2   0   2
Bolton   53.00%   7   0   4   0
Birming   53.00%   8   3   2   1
Doncast LC   54.00%   5   3   2   1
Blackburn   50.00%   2   5   0   1
               
Average   49.40%   5.3   4.5   1.8   1.7
               
Under Magath               
               
Opposition   Poss      SOn SCon GFor GAg
Forest   47.00%   5   7   3   5
Reading   36.00%   1   7   0   3
Cardiff   53.00%   3   2   1   1
Brentfor LC   49.00%   7   3   1   0
Derby   53.00%   4   9   1   5
Wolves   49.00%   1   2   0   1
Milwall   62.00%   7   6   0   1
Ipswich   66.00%   3   5   1   2
               
Average   51.88%   3.9   5.1   0.9   2.3

Obviously we've scored more and conceded less under Symons, but had less possession (which would have been noticably less if that Blackpool game was excluded)

We're now converting 32% of our shots on target rather than 20% under Magath. We're conceding about the same % of shots which the opposition has on target 41% under Magath and 39% under Symons. Which means the opposition is scoring with every 2 and a half shots on target, whereas we need over 3 shots on target to score. Not huge margins, but noticable.

Would be interesting to see the average distance of passes we're attampting now.

Of the 30 league goals we've scored:

Ross has 4 goals and 7 assists
Hugo has 8 goals and 5 assists
and Lasse has 4 goals and 4 assists

(apologies for the formatting, couldnt to get it to line up when it posted)

[nose]

Lets have a look at our long ball game compared to the other 23 teams this season.
So we average 74 long balls per game. putting us in 20th place.
Short passing we are actually 6th.

i wonder how many of those short passes are in our own half though. i should imagine an attacks with long range against short range would put us a bit further up the table.

my favourite subject, Stats
What do we mean long ball? Is that aimless hoof up the field or is it a cross field pass to a runner. When Hugo or Ross start a diagonal run and get away from their marker and parker tries to pick them out when sitting deep, is that the long ball game or a clever inspirational pass?

and short passes, does that many any 5 yard tippy tappy sort of thing, or meaningful through balls into the penalty area between the center halves.

Unfortunately the table doesn't differentiate.

Personally i do not think we play the classic long ball game like wimbeldon or watford used to do. I think what we are trying is  when sensible hitting the runners and catching the opposition on the back foot. However, lack of quality and/or a tendancy to rush means some of the passes are a bit wayward.