NFR: Music at work

[Scrumpy]

I run a small business and we play the radio during working hours, in the warehouse. For a few years now I have paid a small annual amount to a Company called PRS who claim to represent the copyright holders of the music. It's only £55 a year, so not something I have worried about much.

Last week I got a call from a Company called PPL who seem to do a very similar thing. They're asking for about £160 a year for us to have a 'licence' to play music on the premises. I have precious little time during the working day to research this sort of thing and just wondered whether anyone else out there has experience of this? Am I being conned?

[The Equalizer]

This is a question for Two Ton Ted if he's about. He's got connections in PRS.

[JHaynes Paperboy]

This is a question for Two Ton Ted if he's about. He's got connections in PRS.

Is he an "evil looking man" from Teddington?

[fulhamben]

i admire your honesty, but i have never heard of this being enforced anywhere. maybe at big companies but not little ones. think you need ten or more staff for this in the first place, but i certainly wouldnt bother with it.

[HV71]

PPL and PRS for Music are two separate independent companies and in most instances a licence is required from both organisations for you to legally play recorded music in public. While both organisations licence the use of music and collect royalties for the music industry, each represents different rights holders and have separate licences, terms and conditions.

PPL collects and distributes money for the use of recorded music on behalf of record companies and performers. PRS for Music collects and distributes money for the use of the musical composition and lyrics on behalf of authors, songwriters, composers and publishers

The only thing an acquaintance of mine did ( who only employed a few workers ) was to buy them individual FM radios and earphones ( which worked out cheaper than two different fees )) . Listening to the radio as an individual is not counted as a ' performance' hence how he tried to circumnavigate the issue. .

I am sure more learned forum members than I will be able to give you more detailed advice  - but I thought it worth me sharing what I know.

[The Equalizer]

This is a question for Two Ton Ted if he's about. He's got connections in PRS.

Is he an "evil looking man" from Teddington?

That would be telling. But he certainly is evil looking.

[epsomraver]

You are wrong there Ben, I had a small shop with just me and I was called a few times over the years asking if I played music in earshot of customers , I replied no each time although i had the radio on in the shop for my benefit and that is how i saw it

[ToodlesMcToot]

Mr. Scrumpy. You say that you're playing music in your warehouse? Are there customers in the warehouse? Or, is it intended for their comfort/benefit? I ask because the way you've described the situation makes it sound as if it is solely for the entertainment of your company employees. If that's so, how can these companies make a case that you are profiting from their music. We have the same kind of thing here in The States. The companies are ASCAP and BMI here I believe...or they were when I last paid attention some years back.

[fulhamben]

You are wrong there Ben, I had a small shop with just me and I was called a few times over the years asking if I played music in earshot of customers , I replied no each time although i had the radio on in the shop for my benefit and that is how i saw it

but that proves my point if you never got fined

[Scrumpy]

Thanks for the replies all, especially HV71, very interesting.

Toodles and Epsom - It's not within earshot of any customers, but my understanding is that this does not matter.

Sometimes I wonder whether we 'tow the line' too much in this Country, and could probably get away with a lot more if we tried. Having had visits from the VAT man, Fire officers and local Health and Safety reps, you just end up wanting a quiet life, even if it costs you a few quid. As I'm sure others will testify, all the bloody rules and regs don't leave much time for actual 'business'!

[nose]

Thanks for the replies all, especially HV71, very interesting.

Toodles and Epsom - It's not within earshot of any customers, but my understanding is that this does not matter.

Sometimes I wonder whether we 'tow the line' too much in this Country, and could probably get away with a lot more if we tried. Having had visits from the VAT man, Fire officers and local Health and Safety reps, you just end up wanting a quiet life, even if it costs you a few quid. As I'm sure others will testify, all the bloody rules and regs don't leave much time for actual 'business'!

We had the same issue and I confirm that HV71 is correct... I thought we were being conned, looked into and had a very long discourse and explanation as to how and why it is the way it is.
The cost is used, if I recall ciorrectly, to help pay the performers and song writers their royalties and nowadays the less well known are more dependent on this type of revenue being collected and distributed so it is for a good cause.
My daughter is a singer songwriter so I should know how little they get paid unless they become a superstar (which one day i hope she will be!).

[JHaynes Paperboy]

Thanks for the replies all, especially HV71, very interesting.

Toodles and Epsom - It's not within earshot of any customers, but my understanding is that this does not matter.

Sometimes I wonder whether we 'tow the line' too much in this Country, and could probably get away with a lot more if we tried. Having had visits from the VAT man, Fire officers and local Health and Safety reps, you just end up wanting a quiet life, even if it costs you a few quid. As I'm sure others will testify, all the bloody rules and regs don't leave much time for actual 'business'!

We had the same issue and I confirm that HV71 is correct... I thought we were being conned, looked into and had a very long discourse and explanation as to how and why it is the way it is.
The cost is used, if I recall ciorrectly, to help pay the performers and song writers their royalties and nowadays the less well known are more dependent on this type of revenue being collected and distributed so it is for a good cause.
My daughter is a singer songwriter so I should know how little they get paid unless they become a superstar (which one day i hope she will be!).

Surely if you are listening to a radio station the radio station pays the royalty's??

[epsomraver]

You are wrong there Ben, I had a small shop with just me and I was called a few times over the years asking if I played music in earshot of customers , I replied no each time although i had the radio on in the shop for my benefit and that is how i saw it

but that proves my point if you never got fined

I was talking about the number of employees, listening to music has to be a personal thing and they see it that if you play music that others , either employees or public can hear you breach copyright, I have heard that it is being enforced more now.

[Berserker]

We don't play music where I work, as it wouldn't suit everybody tastes, plus we have to resolve tech issues. I do use a I pod to concentrate as guy next to me is very noisy and disruptive. Listening to Northern Soul today

[Scrumpy]

Thanks for the replies all, especially HV71, very interesting.

Toodles and Epsom - It's not within earshot of any customers, but my understanding is that this does not matter.

Sometimes I wonder whether we 'tow the line' too much in this Country, and could probably get away with a lot more if we tried. Having had visits from the VAT man, Fire officers and local Health and Safety reps, you just end up wanting a quiet life, even if it costs you a few quid. As I'm sure others will testify, all the bloody rules and regs don't leave much time for actual 'business'!

We had the same issue and I confirm that HV71 is correct... I thought we were being conned, looked into and had a very long discourse and explanation as to how and why it is the way it is.
The cost is used, if I recall ciorrectly, to help pay the performers and song writers their royalties and nowadays the less well known are more dependent on this type of revenue being collected and distributed so it is for a good cause.
My daughter is a singer songwriter so I should know how little they get paid unless they become a superstar (which one day i hope she will be!).

Terrific, thanks very much. I better pay then, so I can play more  :HD: and  :drums:.

[nose]

We don't play music where I work, as it wouldn't suit everybody tastes, plus we have to resolve tech issues. I do use a I pod to concentrate as guy next to me is very noisy and disruptive. Listening to Northern Soul today

Norther Soul?
What sort of thing are you listening (sample tunes). I lived in the north when it was at its height but didn't like it much... however more recently i have found some real gems.

[Berserker]

We don't play music where I work, as it wouldn't suit everybody tastes, plus we have to resolve tech issues. I do use a I pod to concentrate as guy next to me is very noisy and disruptive. Listening to Northern Soul today

Norther Soul?
What sort of thing are you listening (sample tunes). I lived in the north when it was at its height but didn't like it much... however more recently i have found some real gems.

The album I am listening to as I found it hidden away in a CD rack is:

'The Best Northern Soul All-Nighter... Ever'

I think you can only get it second hand on Amazon now.

I am working my way through the double album as never played it before, but the two I like so far are 'Tainted Love' and 'There's a ghost in my house', obviously in the Northern Soul style not Soft Cell.