Now, Future, FFP, General Thoughts (LONG POST)

[Ordar]

Just an update really on my thoughts on where we are following on from my long thread a week or so ago. This will probably not be interesting to everyone so thats an advanced warning.(!)

The two performances this week, Birmingham and Bolton were extremely poor. No real surprise there I suppose as we've been incredibly poor all season. Alot of people seem of the opinion that this is the level that we're currently at, that our expectations of the squad we have should be to expect us to be one of the 5 or 6 worst teams in the league. I wholeheartedly disagree with this and think that alot of teams in this league are being more successful with weaker squads.

As has been numerously discussed on here, the tactics and formation is a disaster. I'm stunned that the formation at least hasnt been changed to provide cover for the full backs. The amount of times I've heard Staf being slagged off at the ground when he's constantly trying to cover 2 players is ridiculous. We're asking a 20 year old full back to cover 2 players. The team feels like it's missing its identity, the players done seem to know what their supposed to do with the ball when we have it. The indecision causes us to lose possession constantly. If you watch highlights from other championship games (and even during our promotion season) a massive proportion of goals comes from crosses and set plays. We barely cross the ball (and when we do it usually hits the first man) and our set plays are on the whole terrible.

I'm not going to rehash all the tactical issues we have, but the narrow midfield, whether it be diamond or a 3 HAS TO GO. It doesnt work, we dont have the players to play it and it exposes us all over the pitch. We need to do what Hodgson did and literally strip back all the rubbish (especially all the random flicks and tricks) and get back to basics. Go 442 and at least become difficult to score against.

I would suggest a formation along the lines of:

-------------------Bettinelli---------------
Richards----Bodorov---Hutchinson----Staf
LVC----------Fofana------Parker---Kavanagh
---------------Smith------McCormack---------

The thinking behind this.
- Smith and McCormack is a proven partnership at this level, and scored over 40 goals for Leeds between them (including 14 for Smith who apparently "isnt good enough for this level"). We constantly hoof the ball anyway, so may as well have someone who can actually win a header and hold up the ball. To relieve pressure on the defense if nothing else.
- Staf and Kavanagh can interchange and would solidify that side. I was tempted to have Kaca on the right and LVC inside but I dont feel Kaca offers anything defensively (and barely anything going forward). LVC works hard, and could perform a Dempsey type role from that side. Next year a right sided player is a must. Matt Ritchie would have been ideal
- I put Fofana in over Tunnicliffe or Hyndman as he at least tries to drive the team forward. Ideally for next season we should try and get a player like Bannan/Drinkwater/Whittingham and pair him with a destroyer like Gunnarsson or Leadbitter

I mentioned in a thread last night that Bettinelli is making mistakes as he's under so much pressure every game. We're conceding what seems like 20+ shots a game and 15 corners. There's no respite for him. You're not going to win many games if you're under pressure for 70+ minutes a game (unless Mourinho is your manager, but then you'd be much better organised).

With the Premier League money going up by so much its imperative that we get promoted next season. I believe that its worth breaching the FFP in order to ensure promotion. (yes you can buy your way out of this league). With the money earnt per Premier League game being £10m (!) it would be easy to fall within the 3 year guidelines once promoted. If not we just pay the fine. I'm not talking about spending £50m on players, but we need (in my opinion) 5 high quality first team players for next year.

So where do we go from here?

I dont feel that Kit is the right man to take us forward. He's miles out of his depth. He shouldnt have been hired, but now we need to act. We either risk sticking with Kit for this season and hope that we dont get relegated. Which I think is a massive risk. Then get rid of him right after the last game of the season and have someone take over immediately. Or he needs to be let go asap and get someone in to try and organize the side and prevent relegation. I think Rigg should be a good appointment (although he's not massively proven in that role). We've massively underperformed this season, and I cant remember a came where we have played well. Our best performance might actually have been opening day against Ipswich were we battered them but managed to lose. Most games we're awful for 70 mins and not awful for 20 mins, most times less.

So who are the candidates? Anyone good already has a job, so we'll need to spend money to get someone. Historically we've not poached a manager from another team before (we tried with Jol but ultimately failed.) Cant think of anyone else we've hired who was in another job??

My Shortlist:
Eddie Howe,
Steve Bruce
Steve Clarke
Steve McClaren
Tony Pulis
Nigel Adkins

I guess there is a case for Mick McCarthy aswell. I think those would be the best candidates for this level.

Be interesting to see what you guys think

[nose]

i wrote a long piece elsewhere
The board and owner are the problem, until they change whatever manager is in place will be an irelevance. the club is not being run in a manner to allow the team on the field to flourish.... even in your suggested line up you are obliged to include a player that passes the ball to the opposition far more than to his own team and generally when under no pressure (to be clear I mean fof), and generally the quality of the squad is way beliow the required level..we are getting by on effort and working as a team and we are being found out

we play a narrow diamond because we have no decent central midfielders.. so kit hopes to compensate for lack of ability with numbers... personally I would play a 3 5 2 formation for that reason and bring back burn.  but what we needed to do was buy a couple of players, a relatively minimal outlay in the last window, to inject some life and show some intent...as it is the management sat on its hands.

[MJG]

Spending money can help,  but it's no guarantee. If Zamora had not scored at Wembley QPR could really be up poo Street this season. Fine,  pts reduction,  would you break rules two years on the trot?

[Lighthouse]

Well I think we have been over and over this. You blame the manager for not changing things. You want to bring back Smith to team up with Ross because it worked when they were at Leeds. You want to bring in another manager.

I tend to look at the squad and just don't see the talent others may see. Smith I don't see as any answer as we can't get the ball to the front players. Our passing is poor and Smith offers nothing but height.

But by all means lets tinker around with the manager and the players we have. Then we can be back here and go through the whole process again. The answer, as it was way back when Hughes was here. Was to slowly add experience with youth. Slowly change the squad. But what happened is a wholesale clear out that relied on players with no experience of the league and many with no experience of first team football.

Again we seem to want to be trapped between doing nothing then doing everything in one swoop. Until there is some sort of plan of investment and bringing in the youth. We will forever struggle. Bring yet another manager and don't invest properly in the players and I feel we will end up the same.

[Berserker]

Agree Lighthouse

[FPT]

This is more of a reply to each of your points; I personally enjoyed reading through – and I wish this site would contain more detail and reasoned argument, so thank you!

Yep, we were underwhelming against both Birmingham and Bolton; though both decent teams, you'd hope (and perhaps expect) at least a fight, let alone 4 points. I would go against the idea that we're performing at our ability – that's clearly untrue. We are at least an upper mid-table Championship side, interestingly at 1-0; we laid in 12th, but of course what happened, happened. We are in a dip, which is normal but I don't think we're helping ourselves. I agree with the sentiment that others are doing more with less.

I don't think it's a formation or tactical issue as to why we are, where we are. It's the players sadly, they aren't pulling their weight and they aren't putting in the performances that we expect of them. The system shouldn't need to change for the full backs to have cover; the midfield three should be following the alignment of play. If the opposition is attacking our right side, we should have a "right midfielder" alongside two central midfielders, as expected with the midfield three shuffling. Is that a coaching issue? You could argue yes, even if it's being practised, it's not sticking.

I do also agree with the sentiment of the team losing it's identity – the philosophy of play seems blurred and ambiguous. In the early months of Kit Symons' regime, the players seemed very settled on what it was they were trying to do. Now, they don't seem to know where to pass, where to be or what to do. Indecision would also lead me to point to the players – that is a player fault; and something again, I feel is holding us back. The kids seem to have lost the enthusiasm that Christensen has and have gone to looking like youth footballers like Stafylidis. Yes, our crossing is appalling – another player fault; as are set pieces.

The sentiment is great, but I would argue that we lose all of the threat from Lasse Vigen Christensen if "shoved" to the right hand side. We do need to be harder to beat, but when the attempt of being more difficult to break down was placed; Kit Symons was criticised for Fulham have no shots on target at Bournemouth, one shot on target at Wolves and going those four games in a row without a goal. We can't defend, whether we like it or not; so why to play to it? We have got to hide the weaknesses and accentuate the strengths until we can look to become more balanced.


Matt Smith's form has been excellent in League One, no one can deny that; but he's not a Kit Symons player clearly. Smith is slow, immobile and a sheer battering ram – and although aerially stronger than all of our strikers put together, he doesn't have the vital on the ball quality that is required to play this (when on-song) free flowing football. Smith may be big and strong, but he can't hold the ball up – he can nod it on, but doesn't possess the technique to hold the ball like Zamora or play passes in like McCormack. I personally don't want to see us become a typical Championship side, I want to see some decent football, and Matt Smith is the antithesis of that.

I do really like Sean Kavanagh, but again I don't think we need to change formation for him to slot in. If the ball attacks our left, we shift and create that lop-sided 3 man midfield, and he can stretch in possession if need be. In a way, Sean Kavanagh is the perfect man for this role. His crossing is exceptional.

I don't want to look ahead to bringing in new players right now – but if we were to look towards a 442, Christensen would have to be one of the central midfielders – with him being the offensive threat you describe. We do need to start looking for a replacement for Scott Parker; I presume he'll leave at the end of his deal (summer of 2016), I did have hopes for Tunnicliffe in that role; but a poor one against Birmingham overshadowed his positive performance at Sunderland.

I concur with the idea that Marcus Bettinelli has games where he's under an over-the-top amount of pressure, and of course a mistake is going to come here and there. If we protect the goalkeeper, we protect the goal. Our organisation really does need to improve. Does that mean bring in Dan Burn? I don't know, but something vocally and positionally needs to change.

We do need added quality; that is obvious, but we also need cohesion. The first thing needs to be sorting the system and team so it's smooth, solid and consistent. We need to be a well-oiled machine, rather than a rusty bike-chain, which is what we've become in recent weeks. Once the system, tactics and current batch of players are sorted, then we can look at the transfer window – otherwise you're never actually fixing the problem; more like sticking a plaster over a problem, when the plaster comes off, it's a problem again.

I do think Kit is the right man for the football club at this time, and I want him to see out his contract at least. His contract expires at the end of next season, Rome wasn't built in a day, but I'd like to see how much he could do in 18 months. He has made mistakes, like most managers have, and he's learning and developing as a coach, like most of the young players are. I completely go against the idea that he shouldn't have got the job – how can you have ignored the man? I don't think we will go down, but more bob to a mid-table finish; which is more than acceptable given the previous regime and how well Kit done to steer us from there, however the progress has stalled, that's unfortunate. Mike Rigg was the FA's Head of Talent ID, and before that a football scout – why would you put him in charge? I wouldn't say we've massively underperformed, but we're in a very disappointing hole of form.

Just a look over your shortlist:

Eddie Howe: Will likely be a Premier League manager by the end of the year, a Bournemouth legend already really, will take a bigger club than us to get him away from that football club.

Steve Bruce: Would be ok with Bruce for a year or two, but I don't think he'd be a long-term option. Felt a little sick with the figures quoted in the rumours.

Steve Clarke: He was on my "shortlist" after Felix Magath was sacked. Actually my number two behind Kit Symons – he has just taken over at Reading, so would be surprised to see him leave soon.

Steve McClaren: Another manager who will be a Premier League manager soon, if it's not with Derby, it wouldn't surprise me to see another side enquire in the next 18 months. I'd be happy with McLaren, but very unlikely this one.

Tony Pulis: Straight no.

Nigel Adkins: Weird one, done well with Southampton obviously in getting them from League One to the Premier League and helping Adam Lallana fulfil some potential; but Mauricio Pochettino came in and embarrassed him by taking his group to another level when they just looked alright for safety. At Reading, he did ok again, in difficult circumstances but nothing special. I'd be very underwhelmed if this were our option to replace Kit Symons.

I'd really look at Paul Clement. Whether he'd leave his assistant spot at Real Madrid to have a go at management at Fulham would be unlikely, but it's certainly someone that I'd be excited by and could get behind. Other than that, I don't think there's much "quality" out there at the moment, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink has started well at Burton Albion, Chris Powell is someone I really like, but he's only recently joined Huddersfield. I'd be interested to see how Jose Riga would do with a better Championship side than Charlton and Blackpool; even then I've just found out that he's back at Standard Liege.

I was just looking at Quiche Sanchez Flores, the Atletico Madrid manager from the Europa League; but he's just joined Getafe. It will be interesting to see others' recommendations, but I don't think there's much – if any – better than we have right now.

[K33NY]

No matter what manager we have, a manager cant perform big miracles on a team unless that team has players of quality, right now we lack quality at so many positions and levels. But still after what I read of the interview of Kit after the match, and that the team ignored instructions, if true this proves Kit is not up to it yet and either dont bring enough confidence into the squad and/or do not show leadership.

We need a manager who isnt to hard or strict (madman like Felix) but we cant have a soft hearted man who doesnt get respect or show leadership either, like Kit... we need a man with great authority, leadership, good at motivating and tactical knowledge and most prefered some experience and even more prefered, has results. Who that would be, I dont know, but I dont think Kit is the man anymore, neither was Felix, or Jol, Renee who knows... things happened to fast in that situation... but Kit has a contract to end of season.... when the seasons enda, the players, board and coaching staff, and hell even some fans! should have sat down together and have a meeting on how things are, what should be done, what the future should be, will never happen but I wish it would....

[@jolslover]

My top pick for a manager would be Oscar Garcia, although Paul Clement is a good shout

[YoungsBitter]

I agree this is a welcome thought through summary of our current plight.

I watch us defend not just the last two games but even back to last season and we struggle to close down the opposition and hence statistically we concede lots of shots on goal and crosses, and by the law of averages you will concede. Sadly we have not been scoring for fun other than a couple of flashes against Huddersfield and Sheff Wed so we concede more than we score and we lose and we now find ourselves near the bottom of the Championship. That is a mixture of two things, midfield sitting too deep and Managers (every one since Jol) adjusting too late/slow to mismatches in tactics.

Parker is the ever present over the last two years and sadly, as he seems a nice guy, he is a recurring problem. Too often he is too quiet, just a bit too slow and too small to be building your team to pivot around. We end up on our heels in our 18 yard box with Parker and others on the edge, and just like the last 2 years after Parker came on for Fofana we concede the 2nd goal against Bolton. Even after the last underwhelming performances I would still prefer Tunnicliffe's aggression, pace and size over Parker. I know we all like Hodgson's two banks of 4 and the two up top running and harassing but with the young team we have I am not sure we have the discipline or the right players.

I think we might be better with the players we have to look at 3-5-2
Grimmer - Hutchinson/Burn - Bodurov
Hoogland - LVC - Tunnicliffe - Fofana/Kavanagh/Kaca - Staff/Amorebieta
McCormack - Hugo/Smith/Kaca/Ruiz

This would give us the defensive depth we miss yet give us the option to change based on the opposition. For example I think against some of the more direct long ball opposition like Cardiff Burn is needed. If we are getting pressed all up the field Matt Smith as an outlet is worth having as long ball knock down and we have enough pace to not be concerned about his lack of mobility. The interesting thing is we can actually play just about any 5 out of the 8 listed there plus Parker so the bench would have real options for us instead of poor Williams and Roberts who would be better playing every week in the U21s. I disagree with the view that we do not have the players. If we built around this option it harnesses Kit's desire for fast ball movement from his diamond efforts and the provides Plan B with the ability to drop back to 442.

The real issue is not the lack of players but the tactics and the response to the changing circumstances on the pitch as games evolve. My biggest issue with Kit is the lack of plan B and getting outsmarted when we do have it set up right. There are many times I wonder whether he has really looked at the opposition or seen film of them as we seem to just do the same thing regardless whether we are playing a top team that play with width and pace or a bottom team who just lump the ball into the box.

I think we are stuck with him unless as MJG postulated, we have a really dodgy patch and lose the next 3 games. Depending on how well he deals with the next two games - both very winnable - will tell us a lot about Kit as a manager. Can he make tough calls, can he make the players step up their level of play, do they continue to look like they have never played together? Is he too much a player's coach? the last one we had with the same reputation was Jol and we know how that ended up.

My desired next Manager ( and Kit may morph into this over time) would be focused on making sure we have one of the fittest teams so we can press anyone, be tactically astute, be able to change games because the players know their roles well in different systems, that we look like we actually practice set pieces both defensively and attacking. If those names can do that, then I am ok with anyone on the list. However many of them don't strike me as able to do all of them, maybe Pulis, maybe Bruce, maybe Clarke but both he and Bruce have had downs as well as ups.

[Andy S]

I don't think we need to change the manager again. However we do need a stronger coaching staff and possibly more of them. The players are young and need to be drilled in what their responsibilities are at this level. Totally different from youth level. For all their skills at being pretty players they need some steel to win tackles all over the park. If they cant then we need people that can. Football Matches are not won on skill alone. They are won by dedication and hard work. That does not come just from the players. It comes from the manager and coaches as well. If they are not up to it they need to be replaced. I hear people say that they want to see young players come through and be great for us, but that may take time we do not have. So move some of them on and buy some others. Soon some players will prefer to sit on the bench at a premier league club and earn a small fortune instead of playing at our level so the time to act is now. As for the idea of paying big money for players and putting the club in hock, It only leads to a Portsmouth, Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday situation. There is no need to go there. The premier League clubs are about to become so rich that they won't need an academy they will purchase players elsewhere. So lets get it right now.

[Ordar]

Many thanks for the replies guys. I know people on the whole don't like reading long posts, especially those with a slightly negative vibe.

One of my main concerns is that all these young players which have been thrown in arent going to improve to the level that the club and fans expect them to. Realistically maybe 2 or 3 might end up making it at this level and higher and the rest probably wont. I would guess that LVC and Bettinelli are two which will at least stay at this level or improve up. The other players could go either way.

It makes trying to build an entire first team around these players dangerous. With Kit in charge I also feel that he might be short sighted when evaluating the team as these are "his players". Obviously he's had a falling out with David who Jol felt was the best of our young players. (also baffling to me that we've let him go). Is there a case as K33NY inferred that Kit is too chummy with the young guys.

Personally I've not enjoyed the football we've played this season. I have a season ticket in the hammy end and dont think I'll bother renewing it if Kit's still in charge next season. If that makes me a bad fan then so be it, but it's alot of money to not be entertained.

I think it was interesting to hear Kit say that his half time team talk was "play the same second half". Where are the adjustments? Tactical changes? Its a common problem we have in the second half of games. Opposition managers actually change things to give their teams a better chance against us. It doesnt feel like we do the same.

I agree with YoungsBitter that I dont think we actual scout opposition teams. We never nullify their best players or try and combat their strengths. We're also incredibly easy to game plan against. Play with width, use diagnal throughballs over our defence, allow us to have possession in our half and we'll just lose possession by ourselves. This is the reason we've done so badly against sides in the top half

[FulhamStu]

Lots of good posts.  Having just watched the Bolton game again, I think all that happened is that they stepped up in terms of effort / speed / aggression and we did not respond.   

We don't press hard enough, and we give teams too much space a sit back.  When in possession we don't control the ball well enough and give it away with sloopy passing and bad control.   We are also too slow (esp with Ruiz in the team) and don't use the space on the wing.  We whack it clear from defence more than any other Fulham team in the last 15 years (prob due to lack of quality) which nearly always results in losing possession as Rod can't hold it up.

There is so much wrong, Kit has to take a bit of the blame.  Are our players that bad, I don't think so.. however they seem to lack direction, confidence is draining and effort is starting to go missing.   We a a very young side and leaders are needed on and off the pitch, are those leaders doing a good job ??

[hovewhite]

I would love to see a 3-5-2 formation as we have centre backs a plenty and would make us attacking wise use the flanks whilst keeping us solid through the centre with hoogland in front of the back 3 .
regarding the front 2 hugo and ross backed up on the bench by matt smith and cauley.
but don't believe I will see a 3-5-2 formation this season if at all.

[Robbie]

Good Posts.  Brass Tacks - we surrender every game in Mid Field.  By the time we let the opposition near our box, we concede.  Answer - pack the Mid Field - 3-5-2  (possibly a conventional 442)

[alfie]

Matt Smith's form has been excellent in League One, no one can deny that; but he's not a Kit Symons player clearly. Smith is slow, immobile and a sheer battering ram – and although aerially stronger than all of our strikers put together, he doesn't have the vital on the ball quality that is required to play this (when on-song) free flowing football. Smith may be big and strong, but he can't hold the ball up – he can nod it on, but doesn't possess the technique to hold the ball like Zamora or play passes in like McCormack. I personally don't want to see us become a typical Championship side, I want to see some decent football, and Matt Smith is the antithesis of that.


Not sure about this para above from the original op, just wondering have you actually seen the goals he has been scoring or indeed in the Championship last season enough to make this statement?
or is this just an opinion?