wc final, a day late but could not believe what I just read.

[Vinnieffc]

Am I in a minority of one here thinking Webb had a decent game ? The Dutch set out to mug the Spaniards and had no intent of playing any football. I think Webb could see this but did his best to keep 22 players on the pitch to at least give the game an opportunity of being competitive. In any other match, Holland would have been down to 9 by half time. So don't blame Webb, blame the Dutch and their spoiling tactics.

[epsomraver]

Vinnie, i agree 100 % I think Webb had a good game  as did his assistants under great pressure, he only got one thing wrong and that was the corner, I think that he was under instruction to try where possible to make the game a crowning spectacle and it was not his fault the players didn't feel the same, HE HAD A REALLY GOOD GAME AND WAS A CREDIT TO ENGLISH FOOTBALL. SHAME OUR PLAYERS WERE NOT. It is so easy for the pundits to pick holes in the decisions after seeing it from several angles and slowed down, try doing it at ground leval and in real time all you moaners!

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

I want to see MORE yellow & red cards,more cards for diving,more cards for back chatting,more cards for players trying to be the ref,more cards for players trying to get other players sent off,more cards for players acting like big girls blouses! stop all this faffing about and the game will be better for all :clap_hands:

[Burt]

I actually thought Webb did a good job given the difficult circumstances.

You couldn't argue with any of the bookings he had to dish out. And in fact he missed some, and a red card offence too.

[finnster01]

I actually thought Webb did a good job given the difficult circumstances.

You couldn't argue with any of the bookings he had to dish out. And in fact he missed some, and a red card offence too.

How about the second Heitinga booking for starters? Harsh is too harsh a word for it.
When you dish out more cards than ever before, chances are it is not all the teams, is it? It is because you have a part-time Yorkshire copper out of his depth with a whistle in front of 1 billion people. That's what's wrong.

Just wait until that winker ref's Fulham again, and makes another mess of it and hands out cards like Christmas came early. I'd like to hear your excuses then. Complete amateur Howard Webb is. A fool that should never be allowed near a whistle again (and he probably won't). :014: :014: :014:

[LBNo11]

...I'm very appreciative of the analysis made by some of the posters, and Rupert's in particular, it has been enjoyable reading.

Refereeing must be a difficult job, and like any employee that has a bunch of out of touch bosses who have not themselves done the job they are making the rules for them (the refs) to adhere to, we should understand their frustration.

As many on here have said, Webb did his best to make the match a memorable and enjoyable event, and would have succeeded had the Dutch not played such cynical and negative football (they have plumetted in my estimations) and not relied on their obvious skill to try and vanquished the technically better foe.

Spain did remarkably well to restrain themselves in the event of repeated onslaughts, however, they still showed their over the top reactions and tried to get the Duthc players sent off at every challenge by surrounding the ref. Perhaps if the Ducth had tried to play football in the first place the match would have been memorable for the right reasons.


And after all said and done, refs will continue to annoy me, especially the 'homies'...

[epsomraver]

Sorry Finn, I do not agree, not one of his cards was wrong and unjustified, apart from the yellow that would have been a red in any other game, it is so easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight and seeing an incident in slow motion several times, Refs don't as yet have the luxury of  seeing these pictures and the sooner they can the better, when the Ref is in the mix with players some a lot taller than them they can easily have their view of an incident blocked, the wrong thing is to guess and that is why linesman were upgraded to assistant refs. Also Webb and the other premier refs are all full time , he is not a part time copper  so I think your information is outdated, and they get around a grand per match so how much more do you want to pay them? good rate for 90 minutes mate!

[finnster01]

... they get around a grand per match so how much more do you want to pay them? good rate for 90 minutes mate!

Mr epsom, fair enough mate, I just happen to have a different opinion, but I think you need to explain the above statement to Jimmy Bullard as well.  :011:

Anyway, I just think Howard Webb is a complete twit and the WC Final proves it. Wiki also has him down as a seargent in the South Yorkshire Police, so maybe that is all bollocks, but regardless I think he is a complete amateur that over-manages each game and makes the worst out of people. He thinks he is still a copper hunting sheep burglars on the run from Bradford.

[epsomraver]

Just to be picky, Bradford is in west Yorkshire and he was employed by South Yorkshire Police :021: however we agree to disagree, I just think he does try to talk to players before ruling by cards unlike some and although he gave out a load I don't see he had much choice, perhaps if he had given a red the game would have calmed down but then he would have been blamed for not using his discretion,  he gave enough warnings out. I am sure we will agree that the players  themselves ruined the final not Webb?

[HatterDon]

Am I in a minority of one here thinking Webb had a decent game ? The Dutch set out to mug the Spaniards and had no intent of playing any football. I think Webb could see this but did his best to keep 22 players on the pitch to at least give the game an opportunity of being competitive. In any other match, Holland would have been down to 9 by half time. So don't blame Webb, blame the Dutch and their spoiling tactics.

Nope, it just seems like it since those that do are so virulent about it.

Aside from not sending off DeJong for trying to perforate Xavi Alonso's chest, I thought he had a pretty good final. I watched most of the matches in their entirety [ah, they joys of unemployment], and with one or two notable exceptions, I thought the standard of officiating was quite good. Of course, I expect for there to be 5-10 missed calls/wrong calls a match, since (a) I've been watching football for a long time and (b) refs continue to be human.

There has been a tremendous down side on all this in the States. Many of us had hoped that this WC might kick-start more interest from non-soccer supporting rabid sports fans. Unfortunately, the endless caterwauling in the press and from the match announcers about referee errors -- I'M LOOKING AT YOU IAN DARKE AND JOHN HARKES -- most of these folks still think it's a sport played by fairies, and now they think it has as much integrity as professional wrestling.

Sad really, because I thought that overall it was the best WC tourney in many a year.

[alfie]

I don't care, but I don't like Howard Webb at all.

Most overrated ref since Graham Poll.

Mr finnster01 i think what i have gleened from all your responses that it did not matter if Webb had the best game ever in the history of football you would still not have given him any credit.

[NogoodBoyo]

Rupert 3  Finnster 0 (down to 9 men for calling the referee names and provoking argy-bargy amongst the spectators)
Nogood "good game, good game" Boyo

[finnster01]

Rupert 3  Finnster 0 (down to 9 men for calling the referee names and provoking argy-bargy amongst the spectators)
Nogood "good game, good game" Boyo

I watched Fulham play away too many times Mr Nogood, so I'll take that result.

Finnster "Everyone loves Howard Webb Except Me" NoGood01

[Rupert]

Rupert 3  Finnster 0 (down to 9 men for calling the referee names and provoking argy-bargy amongst the spectators)
Nogood "good game, good game" Boyo

I'm happy to call it a draw (were we competing?), Finnster made me have a damn good think about the topic, which never hurts, and while I disagree with much of what he has said, I love the way we are permitted to hold on to our opinions on this site without being condemned by any clique.

Vive la difference, as the French say.

[Jimpav]

Firstly, fantastic posts Rupert. Very interesting and insightful. It's said often but we do get some quality posts on this board that would not be out of place in the back pages.

Secondly, I thought Webb had an alright game given the circumstances but I can appreciate some of the criticisms directed at him. I remember when he reffed our famous 2-1 won over the Gooners a few years back. That too was a bad tempered game and I was initially impressed by his decison to turn a blind eye to a few of the harder tackles and let the game flow. However as soon as he showed his first card he appeared to lose control and people were
getting booked left right and centre. Each booking balanced out but by another for the opposing side. Arsenal got the red card this time.

It's good to have a ref that is keen to have a flowing and entertaining match but the initial freedom seems to disrupt the players perspective. If you are allowed to get away with a hard tackle then surely you will keep doing the same until you are booked. 

In fairness Webb does seem to communicate the players and warn them but these guys do not  answer to anyone and are also very competitive. His liberal approach works well to start with but then the players take advantage and he ends up cracking down harder than before.

The Dutch were inexcusable and outclassed but had Webb clamped down from the off and made an example and some boundaries then he may have been able to give out less cards throughout the rest of the match.   

He is the best ref in the PL though and his approach is admirable- just not sure if it works on a bunch of millionaires who can't be trusted not to take advantage of it.

[FatFreddysCat]

Am I in a minority of one here thinking Webb had a decent game ? The Dutch set out to mug the Spaniards and had no intent of playing any football. I think Webb could see this but did his best to keep 22 players on the pitch to at least give the game an opportunity of being competitive. In any other match, Holland would have been down to 9 by half time. So don't blame Webb, blame the Dutch and their spoiling tactics.

Nope, it just seems like it since those that do are so virulent about it.

Aside from not sending off DeJong for trying to perforate Xavi Alonso's chest, I thought he had a pretty good final. I watched most of the matches in their entirety [ah, they joys of unemployment], and with one or two notable exceptions, I thought the standard of officiating was quite good. Of course, I expect for there to be 5-10 missed calls/wrong calls a match, since (a) I've been watching football for a long time and (b) refs continue to be human.

There has been a tremendous down side on all this in the States. Many of us had hoped that this WC might kick-start more interest from non-soccer supporting rabid sports fans. Unfortunately, the endless caterwauling in the press and from the match announcers about referee errors -- I'M LOOKING AT YOU IAN DARKE AND JOHN HARKES -- most of these folks still think it's a sport played by fairies, and now they think it has as much integrity as professional wrestling.

Sad really, because I thought that overall it was the best WC tourney in many a year.

Hatter Don that was by far the worst WC i've ever seen. Them Vuzealias, the boring football. Sorry i'm getting that movement thing that Manxman was moaning about otherwise i'd post more.