Sack kit and we really will reach an all time low …….get real for gods sake !

[colinwhite]

I cannot believe the fickleness of some of the posts I have been reading of late . I think it comes from disappointment and of course mis guided , unrealistic , expectations after our relegation   to the championship .
I would have taken our current league position prior to Kits first game in charge , after that disastrous start , with a very young squad and the club in total turmoil , a new owner (who no -one has worked out yet ) and presumably EVERYONE at the club looking over their shoulder .
I don't think that Kit Symmons is the man to take us back  up to the premier league , but he IS the right (possibly only ) man to keep us in the championship . That is actually all that matters now as far as this season is concerned .With his relationship with the squad , a lot of  damage could be done to replace him now . Do we really want to be a club that brings in our 5th manager  in 2 seasons ?

We have an interesting group of games in front of us . The doom merchants predicting zero points from these fixtures seem to have forgotten the nature of football when it comes to the business end of the season . I think it may actually work in our favour  that we are going to play Derby and Bournmouthe at home , and I am going to stick my neck out and predict that we will get 4 points from these 2 games ( partly because Im getting fed up with some of the negative tosh getting spewed out by some people on this forum ).

In my view our best performance this season was Norwich at home . Im pretty sure that Kit would agree with me for the simple reason that it was a game where everything went according to plan . Not pretty but effective when we were not exactly highly fancied .
Wolves and Watford away would be difficult away games for any team in this league  , so 2 points from these fixtures would definitely be  a result, although I am not expecting us to get more that one .

Okay this a forum where many ventilate  their frustrations and  disappointments , but I think  many need to get a bit more realistic about our situation and future . I don't understand why we didn't strengthen in january as it was clearly needed , but with Hoogland and Amorbietta  soon fit and Ruiz soon back in the starting eleven , we are going to be able to field a better more experienced side which will have enough to keep us in this division  .

[Reznor]

He will probably be replaced in the summer anyway. I don't think it would help to remove him now even though he does seem way out of his depth.

[Alan_C]

The first half against Forest at home was pretty good in terms of the speed we move the ball forwards.

Moving quickly away from our poor defence and towards our strikers who while not premiership level are pretty decent at this level.

The ball gets slowed down too much in our midfield and we then tend to bypass it rather than move through it quickly. The long ball to Hugo doesn't work and it isn't likely to start soon.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I wouldn't sack him because then we will end up with another panic manager. But in the summer we need a change and this time it needs to be a very good decision. Kit deserved his chance but I see pretty much every game live and he is so out of his depth and now it's rubbing off on the players. Yesterday may have been a draw but we were so bad that it was hard to watch.  We are so lucky Millwall are as bad as they are because if they were even slightly better they would've battered us. They just lacked a goalscorer.

It's not fickle to give one of your own a chance and then realise they aren't ready. I'm pleased we didn't panic and go for someone silly because this season was a write off anyway but if you're saying we need to be patient with Kit and persevere next year then I think it's you that needs to get real and I like you so I don't mean that aggressively.

There's one reason and one reason only why kit had no money to spend.  There's also one reason why it took so long for him to get the job permanently. He wasn't the panels first choice, they couldn't get their main target because they were heavily contracted to a club and they've bided their time with kit until they are available. Rene spent a fortune in Jan and then 3 games later he was sacked, khan didn't want the same mistake again. The aim was stay up without wasting money and build again next year. Kit doesn't have the backing of Khan long term and I think that appears obvious. And the sad thing is I think he's right to feel that way

[colinwhite]

Danny ,I don't think the club was fickle  to appoint kit , but the suggestion that kit has to go because we are on a poor run is  as crazy as giving him a five year contract after his early good run would have been !
We are ALL frustrated and  the bottom line is that we don't have a great side but we don't have a useless side either .
Good point about the panel not being able to get their first choice (Bruce? ), that would certainly explain a lot .

[MJG]

I don't think there is a more pro Symons supporter on here than myself. Pushed for him from day one based on a number of factors. But he's not helping himself at all with what he is doing or has done since Xmas.
Two wins and draw in ten games from boxing day is relegation form.
I'm worried that I have seen nothing in the last two games to say he's trying something to turn this run around,  and we now have four games in a row where I'm struggling to see how we get a point.

It's not all his fault,  but actual selections,  tactics etc are his decisions and currently it's not working.
Lose next four we will be either 3rd or 4th from bottom with ten games. Do you stick even then,  twist now,  or go for my preferred option.
That he brings in a older head to help him over these last 14 games. Khan,  Rigg and Mac should insist he does this or pay the consequences. He needs help.

[beijing ben]

I don't think there is a more pro Symons supporter on here than myself. Pushed for him from day one based on a number of factors. But he's not helping himself at all with what he is doing or has done since Xmas.
Two wins and draw in ten games from boxing day is relegation form.
I'm worried that I have seen nothing in the last two games to say he's trying something to turn this run around,  and we now have four games in a row where I'm struggling to see how we get a point.

It's not all his fault,  but actual selections,  tactics etc are his decisions and currently it's not working.
Lose next four we will be either 3rd or 4th from bottom with ten games. Do you stick even then,  twist now,  or go for my preferred option.
That he brings in a older head to help him over these last 14 games. Khan,  Rigg and Mac should insist he does this or pay the consequences. He needs help.

I would get a new manager now to be honest but can understand where you are coming from. I'd be happy with Wigley coming in as a number two, if he is still available. It is a difficult situation for everybody. I don't blame Khan at all, i think that every decision he has made has been understandable and he has just been unlucky. I think because of what has happened in his short time as owner makes him reluctant to suggest anything right now. He wants to be popular with the fans and he thought he did that by giving the job to Kit. Now Khan is in a difficult situation

If Kit is still manager for the Wolves game he must just go for it. Play Roberts from the start, for example. Play Ruiz from the start. He can win a game on his own. Maybe change the formation...

[Mince n Tatties]

I don't think there is a more pro Symons supporter on here than myself. Pushed for him from day one based on a number of factors. But he's not helping himself at all with what he is doing or has done since Xmas.
Two wins and draw in ten games from boxing day is relegation form.
I'm worried that I have seen nothing in the last two games to say he's trying something to turn this run around,  and we now have four games in a row where I'm struggling to see how we get a point.

It's not all his fault,  but actual selections,  tactics etc are his decisions and currently it's not working.
Lose next four we will be either 3rd or 4th from bottom with ten games. Do you stick even then,  twist now,  or go for my preferred option.
That he brings in a older head to help him over these last 14 games. Khan,  Rigg and Mac should insist he does this or pay the consequences. He needs help.

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[colinwhite]

Ben , Kit got badly burned when he changed things around and played dembelle and  roberts against derby at home in the league cup  . There is no way Roberts will start another game this season .
MJG , bringing someone in to help kit is tricky one . He is clearly his own man , and althoughI agree it is obvious  he needs help , i can't see it happening .It would have to be his man , and who is that going to be ?
Curbishly was who he wanted .

[Arthur]

That he brings in a older head to help him over these last 14 games. Khan,  Rigg and Mac should insist he does this or pay the consequences. He needs help.

I agree - the team needs galvanising and Symons doesn't appear to know how to achieve this.

I would have thought that, from Kit's point of view, to concede that he needs help from a more experienced manager/coach is, effectively, to relegate himself to the role of assistant and merely increases the likelihood of the Club replacing him or, at the very least, downgrading him at the end of the season. From Kit's point of view, the only way for him to retain his current status is to steer us to safety himself.

It's an unfortunate set of circumstances in which he finds himself but, for the second season running, the Club is faced with the dilemma of whether to stick-or-twist, and only with an unlikely series of results over the next four games can Symons maintain any sort of confidence in his abilities.

[MJG]

Ben , Kit got badly burned when he changed things around and played dembelle and  roberts against derby at home in the league cup  . There is no way Roberts will start another game this season .
MJG , bringing someone in to help kit is tricky one . He is clearly his own man , and althoughI agree it is obvious  he needs help , i can't see it happening .It would have to be his man , and who is that going to be ?
Curbishly was who he wanted .

I know us a very tricky one and I'm sure we have all been in situations where we think we are right now matter what people say.
The conversation would go along the lines of everything we dicuss.. Bad run,  subs,  selections,  shots on target,  etc. I'd make it clear we think he needs help... 'Who would you like?'
If he came back and said 'no I'm fine we will get through this' ...it would need someone to stand up and say 'sorry Kit it's not.'
And then the decision would have to be made.. Back him and his judgement or back our own (which is he needs someone).
You can't just give him someone,  but you could suggest names.
It's so difficult,  I really really want him to do well, but if it was my club and decision I'd try what I have just suggested. If he said no I'd replace him.

[ron]

Perhaps it may redress the balance which seems to be very much against Kit at the moment by looking at our relegation as having left us with a league 1 at best side after the disappearance of the mainly ageing players who patently weren't good enough to remain in the Prem.

A big mistake is thinking that the top team in the Championship is just one place below the bottom club in the Prem.  Those who do are generally the ones who are slating Kit, and setting themselves up for a lot of disappointment after each result. Imho anyway.

[MJG]

That he brings in a older head to help him over these last 14 games. Khan,  Rigg and Mac should insist he does this or pay the consequences. He needs help.

I agree - the team needs galvanising and Symons doesn't appear to know how to achieve this.

I would have thought that, from Kit's point of view, to concede that he needs help from a more experienced manager/coach is, effectively, to relegate himself to the role of assistant and merely increases the likelihood of the Club replacing him or, at the very least, downgrading him at the end of the season. From Kit's point of view, the only way for him to retain his current status is to steer us to safety himself.

It's an unfortunate set of circumstances in which he finds himself but, for the second season running, the Club is faced with the dilemma of whether to stick-or-twist, and only with an unlikely series of results over the next four games can Symons maintain any sort of confidence in his abilities.

Why would it relegate him? Plenty of managers have an assistant older head next to them,  someone who can give a fresh look at things. Keegan always had Arthur Cox with him for example.

[colinwhite]

as Arthur quite rightly pointed out , Kits only chance of retaining his job long term , is to turn things around by himself .
Whatever happens IMO he will be replaced at the end of the season .

[colinwhite]

Could he bring in Cookie to help him , just a thought !

[Arthur]

Why would it relegate him? Plenty of managers have an assistant older head next to them,  someone who can give a fresh look at things. Keegan always had Arthur Cox with him for example.

The difference in the case of the Keegan/Cox partnership is that is was never apparent to the supporters exactly how much of their success was directly attributable to Arthur Cox. If we bring in somebody to advise Symons, however, Kit will, due to our current predicament, have no choice but to take that advice. And if, as a consequence, performances and results improve significantly, to whom will the credit be given? In which case, would it not make far more sense for that person to be in charge permanently? If, on the other hand, even with an assistant, Kit continues to flounder, then the logical solution is surely to recruit anew in the close season.

[beijing ben]

Ben , Kit got badly burned when he changed things around and played dembelle and  roberts against derby at home in the league cup  . There is no way Roberts will start another game this season .
MJG , bringing someone in to help kit is tricky one . He is clearly his own man , and althoughI agree it is obvious  he needs help , i can't see it happening .It would have to be his man , and who is that going to be ?
Curbishly was who he wanted .

One game for Pat. Seems harsh..

[colinwhite]

Agreed Ben . Hopefully next year will be the time for him .

[fulhamben]

Ben , Kit got badly burned when he changed things around and played dembelle and  roberts against derby at home in the league cup  . There is no way Roberts will start another game this season .
MJG , bringing someone in to help kit is tricky one . He is clearly his own man , and althoughI agree it is obvious  he needs help , i can't see it happening .It would have to be his man , and who is that going to be ?
Curbishly was who he wanted .

One game for Pat. Seems harsh..

harsh isnt the word.he didnt just change things around. if our first team is made up of kids, then the team that started against derby in the cup was made up of babies.  it was a total second/third string team in that game. and lets not forget, the babies in that game did better than our first team did when they played derby, but lets keep trusting in the failed ones hey.  id rather see pat start wide right than watch kits preferred team play crap again. to quote einstein Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[fulhamben]

It do not think it will serve any purpose to replace Kit before the end of the season, it could even inflict more damage. Let's see how things Pan out, if the club decides that a new man is needed, and at this moment I do feel that way, then so be it, but they have to tread with caution to ensure the new man is the right man if that is possible, but it's know guarantee, but we cannot have a repetition of this season.
Who knows what may happen v Wolverhampton Wanderers. As for Derby County Well whatever happens a point from each would be most welcome all round and bring the feel good factor back amongst the ranks.
My understanding is on Saturday that Rotherham United play Millwall, Blackpool play Wigan Athletic, Bolton Wanderers play Brighton & Hove Albion. They all can't win, three may lose or all six may draw, so it's not all DOOM & GLOOM, not yet anyway, plus like us they all have tough fixtures in midweek.  we are still in control of our own destiny.

if the next four games go as you would expect, than that could be 11 games without a win. 11 for the love of god. lets hope that doesnt happen and kit turns things around, but id fail to see how a new manager could do worse than go 11 without a win