Mackintosh RUINED Fulham

[Roberty]

I wish I had the same excellent memory that many of you have.
I could then contribute to this type of discussion.

Be careful what you wish for !

If you remembered all the bad things it could lead to despair

Better to be a happy and forgetful sole 

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

As is always the case; the CEO does what the owner or shareholders tell him or her to do

Maybe this is why he is still in position?

I suspect that there is a lot of truth in this.

And I seem to be the only one who asks what is/has been the role of Mark Lamping in this, President of the Jaguars and the only man Khan has appointed to the Board to sit alongside Mackintosh and our Finance Director after those who served under MAF were released?

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

I wish I had the same excellent memory that many of you have.
I could then contribute to this type of discussion.

Be careful what you wish for !

If you remembered all the bad things it could lead to despair

Better to be a happy and forgetful sole  

Maybe you're right........:0)
What did you say ?

I can't reply as it's time to have the straight jacket put back on and take the little rectangular orange pill.
The nerves have started for tomorrow, doesn't look like any streams, what's new ?

[Nick Bateman]

Your post was a rant: ill-tempered containing inaccuracies and based on a lot of speculation.

Your views are prejudiced because they are based on assumptions.

Your claim about "People like me . . ." makes no sense and is again without evidence and untrue. I am not arguing for MacKintosh. I cannot argue either for or against MacKintosh because I don't have enough facts and I suspect no one else here has either. I am simply pointing out the flaws in your argument.

I didn't say Berbatov was a cancer and I am in the minority who don't think that.

The idea that it was "sheer folly obvious to everyone and his dog" to sell Berbatov in January shows how detached from reality you are. Look at the threads at the time. The vocal majority on here wanted him to go. And, by the way, I did not want him to go, again in the minority.

I am unconvinced by your arguments. If you are the sole owner and particularly if your company is not doing well and you have just had to sack the top man, in this case I mean the manager Jol, I think you keep a close look on proceedings particularly the selling of the company's major assets and the purchase of an even more expensive capital investment. All this stuff about AM buying, selling, sacking and employing is still speculation.

As I have said elsewhere I would have stuck with Meulensteen even if we could not have avoided relegation because I think he would have been good for us in the long term.

So nice of you to leap to the defence of a man who wrecked Fulham while stating you DO NOT KNOW who made all those decisions.  Strange that you take me to task then, if I make the point and you have no evidence to back up your counter-argument.

If I believed Khan made those calls I would have slated his judgement, but he did not.  The proof is out there if you care to look.

From the Metro, Saturday 25 Jan 2014, "Frustration is rife right now at Craven Cottage. Amongst fans... though the January transfer window is hardly a hotbed of competitively-priced transfers, something urgently needs to be done. And yet, nothing is happening. The protracted Steven Defour saga exemplifies that, with CEO Alistair Mackintosh supposedly haggling over £500,000...."

Clearly Ali Mack negotiating the price of players, as he should, and not the tea lady if you would have us believe.

Sky Sports Friday 14 February 2014 18:51
Statement from Shahid Khan
"Alistair Mackintosh did a wonderful job during the January transfer window to improve our Club. This week, Alistair recommended Felix, with his history of producing results for clubs with similar challenges as ours, as the new manager of Fulham. Alistair's recommendation received my complete approval and Felix has my unequivocal support."


Statement from Alistair Mackintosh

"The opportunity to bring in a manager with the experience of Felix Magath would typically be unlikely at this point in the season. However, Felix relishes this challenge. He's very impressed with our squad and commitment by Mr Khan, and his confidence is precisely what we need over these final three months of the season. I thank Mr Khan for his support and we're all looking forward to welcoming Felix to Fulham."

That proves he sold Berbatov for £4m, bought the injured Mitroglou for £11m, and recommended Magath after sacking Meulensteen, all done when Fulham were placed precariously at in the relegation zone with 12 games remaining. 

And you mentioned Berbatov was regarded as a CANCER

"You ignore the vociferous calls on here, then and since, that Berbatov was a cancer"

.  By implication you were stating your own view on the man, which you now detract because you know how extreme such a remark it was.  Personally I do not remember any Fulham fan referring to him as a cancer; many were fed up with his apparent lack of effort and loyalty but as I said, players have gone through these phases only to be put right by a strong manager and conditions.

Remember when Chris Coleman refused to sell Louis Saha, who when he heard Man.United wanted him, refused to play for Fulham, etc.  Yet Cookie stood resolute and even suggested he'd put Saha in the reserves if he refused to play and laughed (we know he was undermined by Mo later but the point is there).

So apart from knowing how any business works, that the CEO takes charge of most of the running of the club and major financial decisions, there is clear proof Ali Mack made those calls.  One hopes you see the weight of corroboration I have unfolded.

I rest my case.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Lads just agree to disagree. I can see both points of view but as much as I blame Ali Mac there were many people to blame for our demise.

Whats done is done now, we should be looking to the future and not getting caught up with who to blame for the past.

We have a big game tomorrow, lets put our energy into that. I have faith in Rigg to sort this mess out

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Your post was a rant: ill-tempered containing inaccuracies and based on a lot of speculation.

Your views are prejudiced because they are based on assumptions.

Your claim about "People like me . . ." makes no sense and is again without evidence and untrue. I am not arguing for MacKintosh. I cannot argue either for or against MacKintosh because I don't have enough facts and I suspect no one else here has either. I am simply pointing out the flaws in your argument.

I didn't say Berbatov was a cancer and I am in the minority who don't think that.

The idea that it was "sheer folly obvious to everyone and his dog" to sell Berbatov in January shows how detached from reality you are. Look at the threads at the time. The vocal majority on here wanted him to go. And, by the way, I did not want him to go, again in the minority.

I am unconvinced by your arguments. If you are the sole owner and particularly if your company is not doing well and you have just had to sack the top man, in this case I mean the manager Jol, I think you keep a close look on proceedings particularly the selling of the company's major assets and the purchase of an even more expensive capital investment. All this stuff about AM buying, selling, sacking and employing is still speculation.

As I have said elsewhere I would have stuck with Meulensteen even if we could not have avoided relegation because I think he would have been good for us in the long term.

So nice of you to leap to the defence of a man who wrecked Fulham while stating you DO NOT KNOW who made all those decisions.  Strange that you take me to task then, if I make the point and you have no evidence to back up your counter-argument.

If I believed Khan made those calls I would have slated his judgement, but he did not.  The proof is out there if you care to look.

From the Metro, Saturday 25 Jan 2014, "Frustration is rife right now at Craven Cottage. Amongst fans... though the January transfer window is hardly a hotbed of competitively-priced transfers, something urgently needs to be done. And yet, nothing is happening. The protracted Steven Defour saga exemplifies that, with CEO Alistair Mackintosh supposedly haggling over £500,000...."

Clearly Ali Mack negotiating the price of players, as he should, and not the tea lady if you would have us believe.

Sky Sports Friday 14 February 2014 18:51
Statement from Shahid Khan
"Alistair Mackintosh did a wonderful job during the January transfer window to improve our Club. This week, Alistair recommended Felix, with his history of producing results for clubs with similar challenges as ours, as the new manager of Fulham. Alistair's recommendation received my complete approval and Felix has my unequivocal support."


Statement from Alistair Mackintosh

"The opportunity to bring in a manager with the experience of Felix Magath would typically be unlikely at this point in the season. However, Felix relishes this challenge. He's very impressed with our squad and commitment by Mr Khan, and his confidence is precisely what we need over these final three months of the season. I thank Mr Khan for his support and we're all looking forward to welcoming Felix to Fulham."

That proves he sold Berbatov for £4m, bought the injured Mitroglou for £11m, and recommended Magath after sacking Meulensteen, all done when Fulham were placed precariously at in the relegation zone with 12 games remaining.  

And you mentioned Berbatov was regarded as a CANCER

"You ignore the vociferous calls on here, then and since, that Berbatov was a cancer"

.  By implication you were stating your own view on the man, which you now detract because you know how extreme such a remark it was.  Personally I do not remember any Fulham fan referring to him as a cancer; many were fed up with his apparent lack of effort and loyalty but as I said, players have gone through these phases only to be put right by a strong manager and conditions.

Remember when Chris Coleman refused to sell Louis Saha, who when he heard Man.United wanted him, refused to play for Fulham, etc.  Yet Cookie stood resolute and even suggested he'd put Saha in the reserves if he refused to play and laughed (we know he was undermined by Mo later but the point is there).

So apart from knowing how any business works, that the CEO takes charge of most of the running of the club and major financial decisions, there is clear proof Ali Mack made those calls.  One hopes you see the weight of corroboration I have unfolded.

I rest my case.

Again, as I said in the last post, I cannot argue for or against MacKintosh because I don't have enough facts. But then neither do you.

The key word in the Metro article is "supposedly". Given the accuracy of most reports in newspapers about transfers and about Fulham transfers in particular I wouldn't put too large a bet based on a report like that.

We know that MacKintosh negotiates the fees and contracts.

But to claim that "MacKintosh RUINED Fulham" requires more such as that he was allowed to do that without a framework including maximum fee and salary agreed with the owner and the Board. That doesn't seem a sensible way to run a football club. To go even further and suggest that he had free reign to hire and fire players and managers indicates more serious problems with the club than simply pointing the finger at the CEO.

The statements by Khan and Mackintosh about the arrival of Magath is the strongest evidence but even there what do you think realistically would happen. I suggest that Khan and the Board asked Mackintosh to draw up a shortlist and even rank them. Given his record Magath is likely to have been the standout candidate. That is similar to what the happened with the five man committee that recommended Symons. That scenario is also compatible with the statements.

There is no way in which the quote implies that my view was that Berbatov was a cancer.

Just type "cancer Berbatov" in search and there are several examples including on October 26th 2013.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Genitalmen,
I do not believe that either of you are having a rant. But you are both having a passionette debate which you both strongly believe in what you say. This is on the eve of our Derby with the Bees, now beating them should give us all a buzz, think of that.

A Rant is defined as a noisy, excited or declamatory manner that shows anger.
To complain in a way that is unreasonable.
To scold vehemently, to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion.
It came from the obsolete Dutch word Rantin, first used in 1601.
Synonyms are bluster, fulminate, huff and rave.
I hope I have been of some assistance.

[Nick Bateman]

Genitalmen,
I do not believe that either of you are having a rant. But you are both having a passionette debate which you both strongly believe in what you say. This is on the eve of our Derby with the Bees, now beating them should give us all a buzz, think of that.

A Rant is defined as a noisy, excited or declamatory manner that shows anger.
To complain in a way that is unreasonable.
To scold vehemently, to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion.
It came from the obsolete Dutch word Rantin, first used in 1601.
Synonyms are bluster, fulminate, huff and rave.
I hope I have been of some assistance.

He probably has a "Bee" in his bonnet, but point taken Mammoth & DannyBoi.

[St Eve]

Maybe Nicks facts are not 100 per cent and we can point fingers at a lot of people, Felix high on my list, but AM was a huge part. In any other business he would have been let go a long time ago

[Arthur]

Lads just agree to disagree.

I fail to see why they should be told they ought not to continue further. Neither has been abusive. What is wrong with two contributors fine-tuning their opinions through a series of exchanges? Had those same posts been made instead by half-a-dozen-or-more different contributors, I'm quite sure nobody would be thinking anything other than that this is a keenly-contested issue.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

I'm with Arthur on this one. Neither of the main protagonists are stepping over the line and it makes interesting reading. There's another post on Art and fakery which isn't about football or Fulham but is being discussed by Fulham fans, again equally interesting. Decent threads have been missing of late.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Fair enough.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

Fair enough.

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[epsomraver]

Fair enough.

Power gone to your head ? :005: :005:bet you love shutting the doors just as the twirlys get to the bus!! 064.gif 064.gif

[dannyboi-ffc]

Fair enough.

Power gone to your head ? :005: :005:bet you love shutting the doors just as the twirlys get to the bus!! 064.gif 064.gif

Lol give me a break will ya epsom! I'm still learning the mod way on the job. Arthur, Vic and co put me in my place and I obliged. No power freak here I just got the situation wrong.

As for the bus.... it makes me feel like im king of the road! Actually not really, I'm actually really nice and I must be the only driver in London who never ever turns away a teenager without a pass, you dont go 4 years without a public complaint if you arent the peoples Champion.................

[Skatzoffc]

I must confess Nick, I thought Mulensteen was the appointment of Khan after they met in the states.

Because he, (Mulensteen), was doing well and wasn't AliMac's appointment he brought in Curbs/Wilkins to undermine his position and regain control. He then followed it up with Mad Magath as he had been courting him for a number of months, (similar to what he did with Jol before his appontment).

My previous posts already state my distrust and dislike of AliMac on this site, so I need say no more on the matter apart from:-

You are the weakest link Ali Mac.
Goodbye.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

Fair enough.

Power gone to your head ? :005: :005:bet you love shutting the doors just as the twirlys get to the bus!! 064.gif 064.gif

No we didn't we just wondered out loud if the thread could continue and you showed great judgement. Unlike Stag did against

Lol give me a break will ya epsom! I'm still learning the mod way on the job. Arthur, Vic and co put me in my place and I obliged. No power freak here I just got the situation wrong.

As for the bus.... it makes me feel like im king of the road! Actually not really, I'm actually really nice and I must be the only driver in London who never ever turns away a teenager without a pass, you dont go 4 years without a public complaint if you arent the peoples Champion.................

No we didn't we just wondered out loud if the post could continue and you showed great judgement. Unlike Staf did the other day but I'm sure Nick has got a Red Card post on the way.