Saturday Fulham Stuff (25/07/15)...

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Fulham eye swoop for £1m Adrien Trebel after losing out on former Manchester United kid Reece James

Fulham are chasing a £1million deal for Standard Liege midfielder Adrien Trebel.

The 24-year-old is a target for Cottagers manager Kit Symons, who is working on a deal to land the centre midfielder.

The former Nantes midfielder, who has three years left on his contract, is keen a move to England.


Adrien Trebel in action for Standard Liege last season. The midfielder is now wanted by Kit Symons at Fulham


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3171893/Fulham-eye-double-swoop-1m-Adrien-Trebel-former-Manchester-United-kid-Reece-James.html#ixzz3gsrJe7jA
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Fulham and ex-Arsenal player has no future at the Cottage

Eisfeld headed for the exit


Surplus to requirements: Thomas Eisfeld

There is no future for Thomas Eisfeld at Fulham.

Boss Kit Symons made it plain the former Arsenal midfielder was looking for a way out after he was the only player from a massive 24 not to feature in Saturday's 3-1 friendly win over Crawley.

Eisfeld was loaned out to German second-flight club VfL Bochum last season after just seven appearances for Whites.

The summer arrivals of Tom Cairney, Jamie O'Hara and Ben Pringle have made the Whites midfield a mighty crowded place.

"We've got a lot of strength in depth in those positions, so we would keep anybody just for the sake of it," Symons said.

"I won't hamper players' career and stop them moving, and I'm very mindful of that."

Reports from the south coast allege Brighton have turned down a third attempt to lure Lewis Dunk to the Cottage. Whites bid an eye-watering £4m for the 23-year-old, but the Seagulls are determined to keep him.



http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fulham-ex-arsenal-player-no-9713958?

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Fulham want £1m French midfielder

Fulham are interested in signing Standard Liege midfielder Adrien Trebel for a fee believed to be around £1 million.

The player came through the youth academy at Nantes and went on to play 90 times for the French club, scoring 4 goals.  In 2014 the 24-year-old moved to Belgium and joined Standard Liege.  So far he has played 22 games, scoring once.

Fulham are believed to be looking at other targets after missing out on now Wigan defender Reece James, who decided on a move to League 1 instead of Craven Cottage.

Trebel has 3 years left on his contract at the moment and so the fee rumored is around £1 million.

Fulham have already signed midfielders Jamie O'Hara and Tom Cairney so Trebel could also play in a role in what will likely be a new-look Fulham team next season.


http://the72.co.uk/31898/fulham-want-1m-french-midfielder/?

[WhiteJC]

 
Eisfeld set for Fulham exit
by DAN on JULY 23, 2015

Thomas Eisfeld's Fulham career appears to be over as Kit Symons will not stand in the way of the German midfielder leaving Craven Cottage, according to a report on GetWestLondon this afternoon.

The former Arsenal midfielder, who spent the second half of last season on loan at German second division side Bochum, had suggested that he felt in limbo before rejoining Fulham at the start of the summer. Eisfeld started on the right of Fulham's midfield in their first pre-season friendly – a 3-1 victory over Premier League Aston Villa in Portugal – but was then an unused substitute at Crawley Town last weekend and was left out of last night's draw with Hertha Berlin entirely.

The 22 year-old, who has made just nine appearances since being signed on a free transfer from Arsenal last summer, has been told he can move on after the summer signings of Jamie O'Hara, Tom Cairney and Ben Pringle increased the competition for places in Fulham's first choice midfield. Symons has been quoted as saying:

We've got a lot of strength in depth in those positions, so we would keep anybody just for the sake of it. I won't hamper players' career and stop them moving, and I'm very mindful of that.


http://hammyend.com/index.php/2015/07/eisfeld-set-for-fulham-exit/?

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Fulham closing in on Garbutt capture
by DAN on JULY 23, 2015

Fulham have fought off a number of Championship clubs to clinch a deal to sign Everton full-back Luke Garbutt on loan, according to reports this afternoon.

Everton manager Roberto Martinez has identified a loan as being crucial to Garbutt's development after he played in all three of England's group matches at this summer's European Under 21 Championships in the Czech Republic. The 22 year-old, who signed a new long-term deal at Goodison Park this summer after rejecting the chance to discuss a possible transfer with Liverpool, had been interesting three other Championship sides, including Ipswich, Rotherham and QPR.

Fulham manager Kit Symons has been in need of a new left back since Kostas Stafylidis and James Husband returned to their parent clubs at the conclusion of the loan deals last month. Whilst academy graduate Sean Kavanagh enjoyed increased game time under Symons last season and the previously jettisoned Kay Voser has enjoyed a couple of appearances in the early pre-season friendlies, Fulham have made a concerted move to bring in the highly-rated Garbutt, who has made twelve first team appearances since joining Everton from Leeds as a sixteen year-old back in 2009.


http://hammyend.com/index.php/2015/07/fulham-closing-in-on-garbutt-capture/?

[WhiteJC]

 
Chelsea offer £2.5m for Bettinelli
by DAN on JULY 24, 2015

Chelsea have tabled a £2.5m bid for Fulham goalkeeper Marcus Bettinelli, according to a report in this morning's Times.

Jose Mourinho has long been rumoured to be interested in the England under-21 goalkeeper, who broke into the Fulham first team last season and enjoyed an excellent debut season despite his side's struggles in the Championship. Fulham are already believed to have turned down an initial approach from their west London neighbours, who also signed Asmir Begovic from Stoke this summer.

Bettinelli, who has a year to run on his current contract at Craven Cottage, has been at Fulham since the age of fourteen and has always been highly rated at Motspur Park. The 22 year-old saw his development hindered by a succession of serious injuries but eventually made his senior debut for the club during Fulham's 1-0 win at Brentford in the League Cup in September. Bettinelli, who has now amassed more a hundred appearances in senior football, played 39 games for Fulham after ousting Gabor Kiraly once Symons replaced Felix Magath as manager and, having made his England under-21 debut against the Czech Republic in Prague in March, was included in Gareth Southgate's squad for this summer's European Championships.

Despite signing experienced goalkeeper Andy Lonergan on a free transfer from Bolton earlier this summer, Fulham would be extremely reluctant to lose another of their promising academy graduates so soon after the departure of Patrick Roberts.


http://hammyend.com/index.php/2015/07/chelsea-offer-2-5m-for-bettinelli/?

[WhiteJC]

 
Eintracht Frankfurt Factfile

Fulham end their pre-season training camp in Austria with a game against more German top-flight opposition in Eintracht Frankfurt at ATV Irdning on Saturday (4.30pm).


The opposition

It was another successful campaign for Die Adler in the Bundesliga last term, finishing in ninth spot and just three points off European qualification. They are under new leadership for the new season, though, after Thomas Schaaf resigned at the end of 2014/15, with Armin Veh taking over.

It's been a busy summer already for the new man in charge with seven players leaving the club, including goalkeeper Kevin Trapp who joined Paris Saint-Germain for a reported fee of €9.5m, whilst Paraguay international Nelson Valdez was released.  Veh has moved to sign four players already, with the likes of defender David Abraham joining for €2m and striker Luc Castaignos arriving from Twente for €2.5m. German international Stefan Reinartz has also joined on a free.

The Bundesliga outfit have already been in Austria this pre-season, recording two comfortable wins over lower league local opposition. They were then defeated by 1. FC Heidenheim last week in Germany, before coming from behind to beat Leeds United 2-1 on Tuesday back in Austria in Eugendorf.

Getting there

Located in central Austria, the stadium is around 125km from Salzburg airport and 146km from Graz airport. The nearest train station is Stainach-Irdning.

Travelling from West Austria, take the A10 towards Graz before travelling on the B320 past Schladming and taking the B75 towards the ground. From the East take the A9 exit towards Liezen and Schladming before exiting onto the E651 towards Liezen and then exiting onto the B75 to the stadium.

Tickets

Tickets can be bought from the ground on the day of the game, priced at €10 for adults and €7 for concessions.

Weather

Scattered thunderstorms are forecast for Saturday with temperatures likely to be around the 25 degrees mark at kick-off.


http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2015/july/24/eintracht-frankfurt-factfile?

[WhiteJC]

 
McDonald talks stall
   
Sometimes no news is significant news as Wolverhampton Wanderers and Fulham wait on Kevin McDonald.

There might not have been any developments in the contract situation regarding Kevin McDonald and Wolverhampton Wanderers. But that in itself is pretty significant news as it indicates that the situation might now be calming down.

The contract dispute evolved into somewhat of a crisis earlier this month when Kevin McDonald went to the media to reveal that he was unhappy with the contract offer he had received to stay at Molineux and that he was disappointed that he was not formally told of the interest from Fulham.

Fulham have had two bids in the region of £1.25million rejected by Wolves. This has been confirmed by McDonald during his interview with Sky Sports.

During that interview he made a big statement, not just what he said, but the actions in doing it.

He wasn't just speaking to Sky Sports to confirm he wasn't happy with his contract offer or that he hadn't been formally told of his interest by Fulham. He was making an aggressive move to get the situation resolved one way or the other.

It was pretty clear he either wanted an improved contract offer or he wanted to leave, he didn't want to sit on his contract for the next 12 months and leave in a years time as a free agent.

But over the past couple of weeks it has all gone quiet, no rumoured third bid from Fulham and no new contract for McDonald.

Speaking about the 26-year-old Wolves head coach Kenny Jackett told the Shropshire Star: "We`ve both agreed that through this week and the next games we make sure he`s ready and contributes to the team, because the team does need him.

"He`s in a better frame of mind, he knows where he is in terms of the situation. He still has a year left and he`s a Wolves player and is committed to doing very well for us."

He continued: 'The priority is now the football. Yes, we`d all like Kevin McDonald to sign and then to push on. It`s not the case right at this moment and we all accept that, including Kevin.

"He`s saying the right things, so that`s a good sign. The proof will be in the pudding as the games start, but he`s determined to play."

Looks like this one will drag on.


Read more: http://www.wolves.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=406549#ixzz3gstuI5XW

[WhiteJC]

 
Fulham need defenders!

In seasons gone by we as fans have spent many an hour debating where the priorities should be when it comes to transfer activity in the summer months. At this point though I think everyone is fully aware that our back four is where the attention is needed and only the minimum of at least two defenders will allow us as a club to take some steps forward this season.

Central midfield has always been a hot topic although with LVC, Hyndman, O'Hara and Cairney all looking sharp in pre-season, it appears we may not be as reliant on Parker as we have been in the past. Our defense though seems to be the Achilies heel, desperate for some consistency, leadership and communication.

The left-back slot has been an issue ever since Konchesky left for Liverpool. Fans were never won over by John Arne Riise but I will hold my hands up and say I have renewed respect for the Norweigian having had to suffer Stafylidis for the last 12 months. Young Kavanagh played there at the weekend against Crawley, and while he is certainly a prospect, it is an area we continue to lack any depth in. If paper talk is anything to go by (which it isn't) then Symons is certainly assessing a number of options including Jake Bidwell from Brentford. Hopefully something is on the horizon.

On the other side, at right-back, we have the permanently acquired Jazz Richards from Swansea and young prospect Jack Grimmer. Richards strikes me as one of those now all to familiar full backs who are a lot more comfortable going forward than they are defending. Grimmer is by no means the finished article but seems a lot more suited to the role than Kavanagh is on the left. I get the impression that were we to have three solid performers in the other defensive roles then both Richards and Grimmer would be good enough to complete a back four, given time to develop as the season goes on.

As for centre backs, well the communication at the Checkatrade stadium on Saturday was near enough non existent. Bodurov and Hutchinson were guilty of not carrying out even the most basic positioning and marking during the first half. Bodurov more so has perhaps established himself as the best of a bad bunch but still needs some quality alongside him.

What we lack more than anything though is a leader, someone capable of organising a line and assisting the younger players in their step up to the first-team. While I fully appreciate that as a club we have probably learnt our lesson in relying too much on aging professionals, I can't help but feel this is one of the rare cases that a senior appointment would be beneficial. Talk of Lewis Dunk from Brighton is certainly a step in the right direction but equally a seasoned pro would, in my eyes, be welcome. Not to sound too cliche but someone who knows the English leagues and has prior experience of wearing an armband would be ideal.

With just a few weeks until we get underway I feel cautiously optimistic about the season ahead. A few additions in the right areas and I think we will be finishing just outside the play-offs and all set for a promotion push the year after. Some may call it lacking ambition but we are building for the long-term.

COYW!!


http://www.shoot.co.uk/category/news/fulham-need-defenders/

[WhiteJC]

 
Marcus Bettinelli, Stockpiling and Why a Move to Chelsea isn't out the Realms of Possibility
by CHRIS GILBERTSON on JULY 24, 2015

News this morning that Chelsea have bid £2.5m for Marcus Bettinelli is enough to make the blood boil if you stop and think about it.

This is yet another example of a big club using their financial weight to stockpile young talent.

There is nothing in the law book that says stockpiling is wrong. Though is it so wrong? And would Marcus Bettinelli really be better off not moving to Chelsea?

Indeed, stockpiling can actually be a clever business model. Sign young talent, develop a network of feeder clubs to which you can send young players out on loan in the knowledge they will play regularly, then either sell them on for a profit or keep the ones that develop into players for your first team.

Feeder clubs are not a new phenomenon. Arsenal, for example, had an "operational" link up with Belgian club Beveren in Arsene Wenger's early days at the club, although that ended up with a FIFA investigation as the Parent Club is not allowed to pay the Feeder Club for the relationship. Watford, Udinese and Granada, all owned by the Pozzo family, operate within a network where players are almost interchangeable. Manchester City's owners now own New York City FC and Melbourne City, the relationship between the clubs allowing Frank Lampard to join Manchester City prior to his move to the MLS. While Spanish clubs have second teams who play in the professional ranks.

However, it is the concept of stockpiling which is relatively new and becoming increasingly evident and potentially problematic given the money available at the top of the game.

It is a business model most successfully employed by Chelsea, the club playing the role of the villain in this current escapade.

Chelsea have a partnership with Vitesse Arnhem in the Dutch Eredivisie. The two clubs are owned by friends. This enables them to send any player they choose to the Dutch club on loan. For a small club like Vitesse, who know they will never fully challenge the likes of Ajax and PSV Eindhoven domestically, the link up guarantees them several talented young players every season at a minimal cost. For Chelsea, the players they send there get game time in a top flight league. The Vitesse squad for the upcoming season currently has four Chelsea players on loan, including Danilo Pantic, an 18 year old Serbian midfielder who signed for Chelsea yesterday.

Chelsea have also successfully developed a link up with Championship side Middlesbrough . This link up sees Chelsea send their top level prospects, the ones who are on the cusp of being Premier League ready, to play in the English second tier. That Boro are managed by Jose Mourinho's former assistant at Real Madrid, Aitor Karanka, is no coincidence.

However, aside from the formal and informal links, Chelsea remain prolific loaners. By being a willing parent club, they will normally find a home for their players they wish to loan out. Patrick Bamford is the latest example. Signed from Nottingham Forest for £1.5m as an 18 year old, the striker has had loan spells in League One, at MK Dons, in the Championship – at Derby and then Middlesbrough, and this week signed on loan for Crystal Palace, where he will get a year's experience in the Premier League.

In total, Chelsea currently have 30 (Yes – THIRTY) players out on loan for the upcoming season.

Their system and attitude to loanees can perhaps be summed up by their current very public pursuit of Everton defender Jon Stones. If they sign him, it's for the first team. Everton and Barnsley have already done the hard yards and developed Stones. At over £20m, should he join, Stones is not exactly cheap.

Yet in amidst this pursuit it has gone largely unnoticed that Chelsea have in their ranks, two of the best defensive prospects in English football in Tomas Kalas and Andreas Christensen. Kalas, after two years on loan at Vitesse, has now joined Middlesbrough for the 2015/16 season. Dane Christensen has just joined Bundesliga side Borussia Monchengladbach on loan. With the likes of Kurt Zouma already at the club, the chances of these two ever making the full squad permanently must be extremely remote.

So the question remains why do young players agree to join a club like Chelsea? For the likes of Kalas and Christensen, who have given years to Chelsea already, to see such a public pursuit of someone like Stones, it must be a bit of a kick in the face.

However, think of it like this. You are a top level prospect and Chelsea want you. It's win: win really. You know you will be sent on loan to a good club with nearly guaranteed game time. This will then either put you in the shop window or if you are one of the chosen few, you may even make the first team.

If you stay at your original club and make it to your mid-twenties, you may not ever get the move to a big club. Your club may hold out for too high a fee or your development might stall because the environment you are in is one in which results, not development, take priority.

There is the additional risk that when you join a Chelsea or a Man City as an already established player in that competition for places is fierce. Stockpiling of these prime year players is something that really is a problem for the English game as prime talents can go to waste. Manchester City are the biggest offenders here, in that they have signed a cavalcade of established players only for those players to get lost in the system and eventually be sold at a loss to worse clubs than they left in the first place – Jack Rodwell and Scott Sinclair are two recent examples that spring to mind.

For players yet to reach their prime, like Kalas and Christensen, joining Chelsea as a teenager gave them a better chance of ending up at a top club than they would have had if they'd stayed at Sigma Olomouc and Brondby, and they've probably been paid better in the process.

So that brings us back to Bettinelli. Would Marcus want to move to Chelsea? After all, this is a club that has just paid £8m for a back-up goalkeeper in Asmir Begovic, a player with 41 International caps to his name.

Indeed, Thibaut Courtois, Chelsea's world class Number One is actually 13 days younger than Bettinelli.

Accepting that Courtois is an usual case, most goalkeepers don't enter their prime until later in their careers, Bettinelli would likely still be signing up for a scenario in which his optimal position will be the eventual Chelsea Number 2.

Considering Bettinelli and his family have a long connection with Fulham I'd be surprised to see him go, especially if he is guaranteed to continue as our Number 1. Though if Chelsea could guarantee him a loan to a club whose defence doesn't leak as many shots as ours he may well be tempted. There's also no guarantee he stays as Fulham's Number One for the entire season. Should we enter a promotion or relegation race, results become too important to carry any player if they are not pulling their own weight.

It also depends on his career goals. At 23, Bettinelli has the potential to be between the sticks for Fulham for the next decade. This comes with no guarantee that we'll be back in the Premier League. A move to Chelsea would likely see him make the top division at some point in his career. Uncertainty and risk come in different forms.

From Fulham's perspective, we won't want to lose Marcus for the reason I've just said, he could be our goalkeeper for the next decade. However, with a good veteran now at the club in Andy Lonergan, and several talented youngsters in the pipeline in Jesse Joronen, Marek Rodak and Magnus Norman, there are other options should the transfer happen.

Stockpiling seems to be unavoidable, but if players can continue to see the benefits of a system that is not exactly secret, perhaps it is just something modern football will have to learn to live with.

COYW


http://hammyend.com/index.php/2015/07/marcus-bettinelli-stockpiling-and-why-a-move-to-chelsea-isnt-out-the-realms-of-possibility/?

[WhiteJC]

 
Bobby Robson Football Day

Sir Bobby's memory lives on in Fulham

England once again celebrated the legacy of one of its greatest-ever managers as Fulham played host to The FA's Sir Bobby Robson Football Day.

Bishop's Park, on the bank of the River Thames and next to the Craven Cottage home of Sir Bobby's former club, was the destination for the July leg of the Together for England Roadshow.

Following a nationwide launch in 2013, it was The FA's third Sir Bobby Robson Football Day and, having visited Ipswich Town last year, it was fitting to return to the club where the great man's playing and managerial careers began ahead of the sixth anniversary of his death on 31 July.

FA chief executive Martin Glenn and Three Lions assistant manager Ray Lewington gave their support to a Fulham FC Foundation Summer School.

Around 60 boys and girls were put through their paces as part of the Whites' community scheme before sitting down for the chance to quiz Lewington on what it takes to represent England

Sir Bobby's wife Lady Elsie and son Paul were also on hand to enjoy the festival of football before being presented with a £25,000 cheque from the FA Community Shield Fund by Glenn and FA vice-president Barry Bright. The donation was further evidence of The FA's on-going support of the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation  - the charity he established in the last 18 months of his life to help fight cancer.

The FA Community Shield raises hundreds of thousands of pounds every year, distributed to community-based initiatives and charities like the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation up and down the country. The funds are raised through a combination of tickets sales and match programmes.

The Together for England Roadshow is a nationwide drive aimed at inspiring current and future Three Lions fans. Following on from the release of the England DNA philosophy, the roadshows will look to encourage a consistent thread of national pride aimed at creating a better England, both on and off-the-field.

For more information on the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation, visit www.sirbobbyrobsonfoundation.org.uk.


http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2015/july/24/bobby-robson-football-day?

[WhiteJC]

 
Chelsea to make £2.5 million bid for Fulham prodigy

According to The Times this morning, Chelsea are ready to make a £2.5 million bid for Fulham's young stopper Marcus Bettinelli with the 23 year-old impressing last season for the Cottagers.

Reports circulated in April about the Blues interest in the London-born keeper and it appears as though Chelsea are going to move on that interest.

Bettinelli has been at Fulham his whole career since joining them back in 2011 but has spent two seasons out on loan at both Dartford and Accrington Stanley.

37 appearances for the Cottagers last season bought about Bettinelli's first England call up as he represented the U21 squad, making his debut in a 1-0 win against the Czech Republic in March.

Despite his young age the keeper has already played in over 100 games, making appearances in the Conference, League Two, and the Championship last season.

Chelsea have recently signed a goalkeeper in the form of Bosnian Asmir Begovic, however boss Jose Mourinho is keen to have as much young talent on his books as possible and has been a long-time admirer of Bettinelli.


http://the72.co.uk/31975/chelsea-to-make-2-5-million-bid-for-fulham-prodigy/?

[WhiteJC]

 
A Glimpse of Mitroglou
by LYDIA on JULY 24, 2015

If you have looked closely at the various photo albums that Fulham have put on the official website throughout the pre-season tour of Austria you will have perhaps spotted Kostas Mitroglou in the ranks. Having seemingly been close to transfers to a number of different clubs, including Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos, already this summer it seems surprising that the club have flown him out to Austria with the rest of the squad for a tough week of fitness and matches! Perhaps it is just a way of keeping him fit and ready for a transfer if someone comes looking but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he ended up staying at Fulham until at least January.

Signed for a whooping £12million in January of 2014, Mitroglou was supposed to be the man who scored the goals that kept Fulham in the Premier League. Instead he ended up being injured for pretty much the whole time and caused a wages headache for Fulham when we dropped down to the Championship. He has been branded a flop by many and was just another reason for football fans around the country to keep chuckling at Fulham.  Shipped out back to Olympiacos last season, most Fulham fans doubted that the Greek would ever make it back to the banks of the Thames.

Yet here we are, summer 2015 and just 2 weeks to go before the start of the campaign and all loan deals or transfers are seemingly off the table. Why do I think he might end up staying for the first half of the season at least? Here are just two reasons:

One reason Mitroglou was sent out on loan last season was because he was likely to be on hefty wages that Fulham would have been reluctant to maintain. And after paying a huge transfer fee that we would have struggled to get back, going out on loan was the best option financially. It meant that he would get game time and the club wouldn't have had to worry about wages. However, this season Fulham have released the likes of Hugo Rodallega and Bryan Ruiz who also would have been on high wages. This, plus the fact that the players that we have brought in aren't likely to have broken the bank, perhaps the club are more able to fund his wages if the coaching staff think he might play a part.

We have let strikers go but haven't yet brought anyone in. We aren't exactly lacking in this area with Ross McCormack, Moussa Dembele, Cauley Woodrow, Matt Smith and Adam Taggart but having the Greek international striker also in the ranks can't be a bad thing. Taggart didn't feature at all last season due to injury so we really don't know what he will bring to the squad. Also, Woodrow certainly has his critics because of his current habit of missing too many chances (although I do believe he will come good once his confidence is back). Dembele has been off scoring plenty for France U19s but he is another player who we don't quite know for certain if he will be up to leading the attack alongside McCormack this season. I personally like Matt Smith but I feel he is more likely to be deployed as a substitute towards the end of games when we need a change of style. If the coaching staff decide to add Mitroglou into the mix then they are adding a player who scored 19 goals last season for Olympiacos, the same number as Ross McCormack! He could prove to be an important source of goals this season.

Obviously the club still might end up sending Mitroglou somewhere on loan and this whole article will be made pointless, but on the basis that he may stay I hope you don't think that it is such a bad thing. We will know more come the start of the season in just over 2 weeks' time.

#COYW


http://hammyend.com/index.php/2015/07/a-glimpse-of-mitroglou/?