NFR supporting our Dairy farmers

[Ged]

Just remember they want to kill Billy and his mates

[Woolly Mammoth]

Their milking it for all it's worth.

[Holders]

They're getting seriously ripped off by the middle men and supermarkets who sell it far too cheaply. The industrial farmers aside, I don't know how the small operations survive. It can surely only be on subsidies, grants and borrowing.

[Berserker]

I buy my milk from supermarkets that give the farmers a fair cut anyway. It's only certain supermarket chains that don't give them a reasonable price for their product

[Nero]

Am I being daft. If someone isnt giving you enough for a product don't sell it.  The buying will then realises he needs it and up his price. E.g fulham want dunk Brighton don't think the price offered is fair so don't sell. Fulham go back with an improved offer and so on and so on

But then again I'm sick of farmers moaning ever Xmas because of x there a shortage of y so they'll be more.expensive we don't make a.living but do you like my new.range rover

[Lighthouse]

I think milk is stupidly cheap. They should get a better price and I would pay a little more as long as the extra went to them. We will end up having to buy milk from abroad  if we lose all our dairy farmers. All the talk of saving badgers that spread decease and foxes which are no better than vermin. Yet we don't want to help save the dairy farms?

[bog]

I recall back in the 80's Welsh farmers were told by the Tories to upgrade all their equipment, then the quotas were cut and many took their own lives as they lost everything. Just give them a fair price, what is the problem with that? 

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[cmg]

Dairy farming? Pah! Money for old rope.
The cows don't get paid and grass costs nowt - they can take away as much of mine as they like, but, if you go out into the country (not recommended) it grows all over the place.
A quick bout of milking first thing and then it's off to drive your Underground train a couple of times around the Circle Line for 50 grand and back in time to shoot a couple of wheezing badgers for dinner.

Those wonderful philanthropists fromTesco have always got your best interests at heart. You know it makes sense.

[Holders]

I know a farm that's run by a man, his wife and their daughter. They work literally 365 days a year, long hours, milk twice a day and keep a few sheep. They don't drive new Range Rovers, they have a tatty old pick-up truck. They have a derelict farm and farmhouse where the roof leaks because they can't afford to get it repaired. However, it they cared to sell the lot just for development into holiday homes it'd be worth several million and they'd never have to do a stroke of work again for the rest of their lives. If they could get PP to build on the fields it'd raise much more. But they don't because they don't believe in that. They regard the farm as essential to the community and that the land is in trust. Right or wrong, those are their principles and I respect that enormously. If TB strikes as it has done twice in the last ten years, all their cattle have to be slaughtered and the compensation doesn't cover the cost of replacement.

Now, I like badgers and don't want them culled but something has to be done to save an endangered species -  traditional English small family farmers. A fair milk price would be a fine start. It's obscenely cheap in supermarkets. If they all put their prices up together it would hurt no-one.

[mikestrand]

I know a lot of pensioners living on a shoestring would disagree with putting up prices,  at least give  people a choice of european milk or british.

[epsomraver]

I know a farm that's run by a man, his wife and their daughter. They work literally 365 days a year, long hours, milk twice a day and keep a few sheep. They don't drive new Range Rovers, they have a tatty old pick-up truck. They have a derelict farm and farmhouse where the roof leaks because they can't afford to get it repaired. However, it they cared to sell the lot just for development into holiday homes it'd be worth several million and they'd never have to do a stroke of work again for the rest of their lives. If they could get PP to build on the fields it'd raise much more. But they don't because they don't believe in that. They regard the farm as essential to the community and that the land is in trust. Right or wrong, those are their principles and I respect that enormously. If TB strikes as it has done twice in the last ten years, all their cattle have to be slaughtered and the compensation doesn't cover the cost of replacement.

Now, I like badgers and don't want them culled but something has to be done to save an endangered species -  traditional English small family farmers. A fair milk price would be a fine start. It's obscenely cheap in supermarkets. If they all put their prices up together it would hurt no-one.

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[Lighthouse]

There are a lot of pensioners who are living on a shoe string who miss the milk delivery. They miss shoe string and the tv series of the same name. But they do not want to go without milk and would happily pay a few pence extra. They object to many things going up in price. Milk wouldn't be one of them.

[epsomraver]

Am I being daft. If someone isnt giving you enough for a product don't sell it.  The buying will then realises he needs it and up his price. E.g fulham want dunk Brighton don't think the price offered is fair so don't sell. Fulham go back with an improved offer and so on and so on

But then again I'm sick of farmers moaning ever Xmas because of x there a shortage of y so they'll be more.expensive we don't make a.living but do you like my new.range rover

The cows have to be milked twice a day for their welfare so yes you are being daft, that's why they are pouring down the drain rather than sell it, it takes over 30 years to build up a good dairy herd, every year they face the dreaded TB testing which could see their whole herd slaughtered,( not just the ones that test positive ) it only takes a morning to sell the lot off and another dairy herd has gone.All you will end up with are a few  big boys same as in most industries and then watch the prices soar!

[ron]

Interesting that it is easy to "sell" the idea of "fair trade coffee" and other commodities from overseas, but when it comes to protecting a quality product at home, the supermarkets gang up and drive prices down to below production costs.

Strange place, the moral high ground. Full of rather near sighted do-gooders.

[Holders]

Am I being daft. If someone isnt giving you enough for a product don't sell it.  The buying will then realises he needs it and up his price. E.g fulham want dunk Brighton don't think the price offered is fair so don't sell. Fulham go back with an improved offer and so on and so on

But then again I'm sick of farmers moaning ever Xmas because of x there a shortage of y so they'll be more.expensive we don't make a.living but do you like my new.range rover

The cows have to be milked twice a day for their welfare so yes you are being daft, that's why they are pouring down the drain rather than sell it, it takes over 30 years to build up a good dairy herd, every year they face the dreaded TB testing which could see their whole herd slaughtered,( not just the ones that test positive ) it only takes a morning to sell the lot off and another dairy herd has gone.All you will end up with are a few  big boys same as in most industries and then watch the prices soar!

Spoken like a Devonian, ER!!

[Logicalman]

I know some of the farmers do have it tough, like most self-employed industries I would guess.

What I fail to understand is the subsidy angle from all this. If we have general market forces then the supply usually equals demand, and the amount of the supply generally drives the price for the that demand. If the milk is cheaper from abroad, then why is it cheaper?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Interesting that it is easy to "sell" the idea of "fair trade coffee" and other commodities from overseas, but when it comes to protecting a quality product at home, the supermarkets gang up and drive prices down to below production costs.

Strange place, the moral high ground. Full of rather near sighted do-gooders.

Strange logic.  Just because the 'do-gooders' have not yet won the argument for 'fair trade milk' you accuse most of them as being short-sighted.

What would you have such people do? Do nothing or stand to the side and sneer like you?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I know some of the farmers do have it tough, like most self-employed industries I would guess.

What I fail to understand is the subsidy angle from all this. If we have general market forces then the supply usually equals demand, and the amount of the supply generally drives the price for the that demand. If the milk is cheaper from abroad, then why is it cheaper?

Land prices and the general cost of living are two factors.

[Logicalman]

I know some of the farmers do have it tough, like most self-employed industries I would guess.

What I fail to understand is the subsidy angle from all this. If we have general market forces then the supply usually equals demand, and the amount of the supply generally drives the price for the that demand. If the milk is cheaper from abroad, then why is it cheaper?

Land prices and the general cost of living are two factors.

So is this not the same for all commerce, world-wide? If so, then should market forces be permitted to govern the price, or is there some other factor I'm not seeing here?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I know some of the farmers do have it tough, like most self-employed industries I would guess.

What I fail to understand is the subsidy angle from all this. If we have general market forces then the supply usually equals demand, and the amount of the supply generally drives the price for the that demand. If the milk is cheaper from abroad, then why is it cheaper?

Land prices and the general cost of living are two factors.

So is this not the same for all commerce, world-wide? If so, then should market forces be permitted to govern the price, or is there some other factor I'm not seeing here?

I was partially answering the question why it is cheaper from abroad. I have no specialist knowledge.

The factor here seems to be that some supermarkets are squeezing the price of milk so that they can offer milk as a loss leader or in a price war to get people in the door to then make their profit on other items. We are talking about a couple of pence per litre, I think.

The idea that supply equals demand is an idealisation. Here those supermarkets who are large monopolies in a powerful position are squeezing one product for their own advantage.

Also it takes time for the market to adjust, here time for some farmers to get out of dairying. That may not be an easy decision if your land is suited to dairy over other products like grain and you are skilled in dairy and have invested in the stock and equipment.