Khan vs Al Fayed- is ffp an excuse for Khan?

[dannyboi-ffc]

I'm not a Khan hater, I like the bloke and I do genuinely think his heart is in the right place. It's certainly not an Ernie Clay situation from what I know of that era. But at the same time there hasn't been much positive decision making from the hierarchy to suggest he isn't as incompetent.

I've read quite a few times about ffp restricting Khan and making it more difficult than Mo had it. Mo splashed cash to gain success etc etc... which is true to an extent but qpr are proof that splashing money is not the answer for everything. You also need to know how to spend it and what decisions to make.

Al Fayed very rarely made a bad decision but when he did with the likes of Wilkins, Bracewell and Sanchez he followed up with Keegan, Tigana and Hodgson. Two of which gained promotion with over 100 points and the other needs no introduction. Hodgson's line up for the final was

Schwarzer- free
Baird- 3.25
Hangeland- 2.5
Hughes- 1m
Konchesky- 2
Duff- 4
Murphy- free
Etuhu- 1.5m
Davies- free
Gera- free
Zamora- 4.8

I make that 19 million give or take, that doesn't seem like splashing the cash considering what we achieved.

I realise for every gem there was a Marlet or a Ruiz and I'm trying my best to be neutral on this debate even though my heart will always sway towards Mo. But does anyone genuinely think the club would have been allowed to sink as low as it has if Mo was still the owner?

If we are dishing out blame for our relegation then Mo shares part of the blame for allowing the squad to have such an old average age and with little to no investment. However if Mo had changed his mind and not sold we certainly wouldn't have allowed Ali Mac to run wild with keeping Jol so long, making Rene his head coach for two weeks and then his successor, allowing him to spend a fortune on an injured striker and investing in two kids Rene believed in and Holtby only to sack him 2 games later. The list of mistakes goes on and on and here we are 5 weeks without a manager.

It is not just down to ffp or Khan's lack of football knowledge. His decisions have been a huge part of why we are a circus and it's time he took responsibility for it instead of us blaming Kit or The 5 man panel or anyone else.

Even the academy that Mo built up, all of the little stars like Roberts,  Hyndman, Dembele and Williams were signed up under Mo and it is Khan's reign that risks us losing them all for peanuts.

I really hope Khan proves to be a success and I trust his intentions. What I don't trust is his incompetence and I worry he will never quite get how to run a football club. I'm guessing it's a strange business compared to the ones he made his billions in.

[Oakeshott]

"What I don't trust is his incompetence"

I do. He has demonstrated it time and time again.

[westcliff white]

Danny I would say we had higher income during the period we had under mo in the prem so that facilitated the odd expensive signing (we also signed some very expensive payers before being in the prem as well but not part of this discussion) such as AJ for example. I believe he voted against FFP and during his last year / 18 months he didnt invest as he had before thats for sure was that down to the fact he knew we would fail FFP with his spending, which I think started in that 18 month period?

Kahn has certainly been affected, I do not think it is an excuse, we are about to hit an embargo apparently because we have failed FFP. Harsh for me given other teams, but I htnk he has a genuine reason here, although the payoffs to the numerous managers in the last 21 months would have impacted on FFP as well and that is his or Ali Mac's or Riggs fault.

For me now we need to make sure we rectify the finances (loss of sponsor hasn't helped here), getting a decent sponsor for next season should be a priority and sorted early next year, consider naming rights for the ground possibly something like Craven Cottage - Londons Pride not overly keen on naming rights but income like that does help. Then we can make sound investments and build for the future

[bill taylors apprentice]

I'm with you on most things and yes I'm sure FFP is a big headache for the club but different times different issues and there are many cock ups you can't blame on FFP

Khan's way of business is to put people in positions and expect them to run with it but having cleared the decks of all of MAF's board and advisors he was left with Mackintosh and for whatever reason it was too much for him.

The only other Director/advisor of note is his mate the beer salesman who's an expert in American sport!

I'm still of the opinion Khan's intentions are good, that doesn't mean I will like everything he does but there's got to be an upward progression on and off the pitch soon (regardless of promotion)

The feel good (most of the time) factor needs to return and quick!

[mikestrand]

There must be some pretty poor accounting going on if we get an embargo while receiving parachute payments or am I missing something.
The race between Khan achieving any success and Khan losing interest and bailing out could be a close run thing, I certainly wouldn't be putting any money on it.
















It's just my speculative opinion.

[Chutney]

The difference is, Al Fayed was predominantly interested in Fulham, yes he had Harrods and other smaller projects but he invested time in us. Khan has other people doing that for him while he invests his time in the jaguars, unfortunately they've let him down so far.

[MJG]

Its an excuse only in that he cant just throw money at the club for players like we did in the early days of MAF.
Lets remember that it did not take MAF long to get Fulham over 200M in debt (to him) and records show that we are already in debt again at the end of the 2013/14 accounting year.

[Barry White]

Chairman Mo has zero blame for relegation to me. Yes the squad was a little aged when he sold us and he didn't invest as heavily the last year as he was looking to balance the books so he could sell. But are you seriously telling me that the side he left behind was not capable of avoiding relegation?

Jol should have been sacked earlier and Rene shouldn't have been sacked at all. The less said about Magath the better but these are decisions that cost us and they are all down to Khan.

Plus khan took our lucky statue away.

[MJG]

Chairman Mo has zero blame for relegation to me. Yes the squad was a little aged when he sold us and he didn't invest as heavily the last year as he was looking to balance the books so he could sell. But are you seriously telling me that the side he left behind was not capable of avoiding relegation?

Jol should have been sacked earlier and Rene shouldn't have been sacked at all. The less said about Magath the better but these are decisions that cost us and they are all down to Khan.

Plus khan took our lucky statue away.

Jol wasn't sacked at the end of the season because Mo didn't want to sell a club without a manager, so must take some blame for that. Was clear Jol was a spent force at end of that season.
You cant let Mo off that easy. The team was too old and he had reduced investment. More investment would have given us more of a chance.

[Barry White]

Chairman Mo has zero blame for relegation to me. Yes the squad was a little aged when he sold us and he didn't invest as heavily the last year as he was looking to balance the books so he could sell. But are you seriously telling me that the side he left behind was not capable of avoiding relegation?

Jol should have been sacked earlier and Rene shouldn't have been sacked at all. The less said about Magath the better but these are decisions that cost us and they are all down to Khan.

Plus khan took our lucky statue away.

Jol wasn't sacked at the end of the season because Mo didn't want to sell a club without a manager, so must take some blame for that. Was clear Jol was a spent force at end of that season.
You cant let Mo off that easy. The team was too old and he had reduced investment. More investment would have given us more of a chance.

I can let him off that easy I'm afraid ! Are you telling me that side was not good enough to stay up? It most definitely was and under Rene we would have stayed up. I think it's an insult to a great Fulham man to try and put any blame on Mo.

[MJG]

Chairman Mo has zero blame for relegation to me. Yes the squad was a little aged when he sold us and he didn't invest as heavily the last year as he was looking to balance the books so he could sell. But are you seriously telling me that the side he left behind was not capable of avoiding relegation?

Jol should have been sacked earlier and Rene shouldn't have been sacked at all. The less said about Magath the better but these are decisions that cost us and they are all down to Khan.

Plus khan took our lucky statue away.

Jol wasn't sacked at the end of the season because Mo didn't want to sell a club without a manager, so must take some blame for that. Was clear Jol was a spent force at end of that season.
You cant let Mo off that easy. The team was too old and he had reduced investment. More investment would have given us more of a chance.

I can let him off that easy I'm afraid ! Are you telling me that side was not good enough to stay up? It most definitely was and under Rene we would have stayed up. I think it's an insult to a great Fulham man to try and put any blame on Mo.

Its not an insult, its just a matter of fact that he reduced/stopped putting money in over last 3 years (actually started the payments back to him with £20M over those 3 years).
Should that team have stayed up? of course, but damage was done early on. I'm not convinced Rene would have kept us up either, that team had no backbone at all.

[Barry White]

If the team should have stayed up as you put it then he left it in a good enough state !

[MJG]

If the team should have stayed up as you put it then he left it in a good enough state !

Well we will beg to differ on this that's clear.

[gang]

I'm afraid I agree with the fault lying at Mo; he is a business man and had decided that he would sell and there after would not invest in playing staff. I am also of the opinion that the Riverside stand was only ever to be on paper for Mo, to make the sale more inviting to a buyer.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I must admit I don't have the slightest bit of knowledge about NFL and I think the only chance of me ever watching it is if someone paid me too. But can someone answer me this..... If our problems are all based around Khan's staff being incompetent, Khan's lack of knowledge of football, FFP and Mo leaving him with a club destined for the drop after lack of investment. Then why are Jacksonville Jaguars spoken about as useless too? Before this season everyone spoke about them as more of a joke than us.

There's no FFP as I understand it, it's a completely different sport with a different layout and different personnel employed by Khan to run it. So it seems unless I'm mistaken that the only thing both have in common is the owner.

Is Khan actually the issue? I'm just asking, doesn't mean I am 100% convinced he is. It just doesn't add up to me

[MJG]

I must admit I don't have the slightest bit of knowledge about NFL and I don't think the only chance of me ever watching it is if someone paid me too. But can someone answer me this..... If our problems are all based around Khan's staff being incompetent, Khan's lack of knowledge of football, FFP and Mo leaving him with a club destined for the drop after lack of investment. Then why are Jacksonville Jaguars spoken about as useless too? Before this season everyone spoke about them as more of a joke than us.

There's no FFP as I understand it, it's a completely different sport with a different layout and different personnel employed by Khan to run it. So it seems unless I'm mistaken that the only thing both have in common is the owner.

Is Khan actually the issue? I'm just asking, doesn't mean I am 100% convinced he is. It just doesn't add up to me

Two different sports two different cultures and two different citys.
Lets remember (And the yanks will correct me) that Jacksonville City council also pay for quite a lot of what the Jaguars do/build. They want the team in the city, so when people talk about investment that has to be accepted as well.

[alexmur]

I must admit I don't have the slightest bit of knowledge about NFL and I don't think the only chance of me ever watching it is if someone paid me too. But can someone answer me this..... If our problems are all based around Khan's staff being incompetent, Khan's lack of knowledge of football, FFP and Mo leaving him with a club destined for the drop after lack of investment. Then why are Jacksonville Jaguars spoken about as useless too? Before this season everyone spoke about them as more of a joke than us.

There's no FFP as I understand it, it's a completely different sport with a different layout and different personnel employed by Khan to run it. So it seems unless I'm mistaken that the only thing both have in common is the owner.

Is Khan actually the issue? I'm just asking, doesn't mean I am 100% convinced he is. It just doesn't add up to me

the jags have always been bad and as far as I can tell from my limited knowledge they are having one of their best seasons ever, they love kahn over there he has done massive improvement to the team and the stadium and they have gone from a complete joke to a respectable team.

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[alexmur]

another point to remember is when kahn bought us he could have bought Newcastle for 100 million

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[georgiajohn]

Well they are two different sports. I live in a suburb of Atlanta in the county of Cobb, the taxpayers of this county have just been subjected to paying for a new stadium for the Atlanta Braves (baseball) it is the way its done over here, a guy like Khan comes in says he will move his team to your area but you have to pay for the stadium, so all the business people jump on board, but the taxpayer whose community is most affected by it pays for it. Also the Jacksonville Jags can come last in the NFL but they don't get relegated, so in other words, its like Fulham coming last and then next year we still play Chelsea ETC. Another thing over here with the NFL the reward for coming last, is you get the first round draft choice, in other words you get to have the best prospect from the college ranks, the idea is to maintain parity. Coming last in the NFL does not mean anything, the owners still get their cut of the TV revenues next season, and if you are clever you have a good prospect. There is a Kevin Costner movie out there called Draft Day, it sums it all up pretty good. As far as Fulham goes, having been to my first game at the cottage in 1953 we have always been the also rans, even when we got in the old first division, we all knew that, we went along because we did have some good players, and when we beat the big Uns we revelled in it. That was then and this is now, one of the things that i think Khan seems not to understand and I must admit to being mystified why a very successful businessman would not know, basing this on what I have read, but to put it out there you want a head coach and not a manager is stupid, if you watch that movie maybe you may well understand, in the NFL they have head coaches, and the business manager drafts and gets the players, but Mr Khan that does not work in the English game, any good coach or manager in the English game wants to be totally in charge, so by publishing your wants condemned Fulham right from the word go, to not attracting a manager of note and experience, it is a ridiculous idea, and when we lose to Weds in the Cup us supporters will have another few months of biting our nails hoping we are not relegated to the next division. I hope I am wrong about this but history shows us that is what we have been doing, and nothing i have seen as changed my mind. Sorry my post is long, but Fulham as been one of my passions all my life, and My American wife of 41 years will tell you that her weekends depend on the Fulham results, lately she as not had many good ones.

[dannyboi-ffc]

Like I said I know next to nothing about NFL so all of your responses are very helpful and welcomed. I try not to be ignorant when it comes to Khan's ownership, I try to be open minded and not have a knee jerk reaction. At the end of the day Bolton are in crisis and we should be grateful we aren't in their state. They are almost certain to go down and if we feel we should be a club pushing for promotion then God knows how Bolton fans feel. They are probably a bigger club than us or at least the same size.

I hope Khan gets it right but like most people in football from academy graduates to managers. Football doesn't allow you too many opportunities to make mistakes, you need to be successful pretty quickly to survive and regardless of FFP or no FFP the amount of mistakes Fulham as a club have made is quite frightening and imo the shambles on the pitch we sometimes see reflects things off the pitch too.

On a positive note I think Gray as a coach and not in charge is a good move. Providing we now look at the right man to take us forward I will be happier. Like I said I like Khan and think his intentions are good. From his idea of being sustainable to developing the Riverside. I believe it all will happen eventually but time and money don't go hand in hand and it becomes harder each season to trust the man who oversees so many mistakes.

Finally GeorgiaJohn don't apologise for the long post.  It was very helpful and a good read. You should post more often! I'd love to know your views of Fulham's history considering how long you've been a supporter. But that's a discussion for another thread.