Yet another Manager / Head Coach

[f321ffc]

Yet another Manager / Head Coach who seems to have told the players all back to defend corners.
I have moaned about this tactic many times before why the hell have 9 men and keeper  back into the box  with Ross just outside the box when defending  corners?
This allows the attacking team to flood the box , we have forwards trying to defend but not being very good at it, leave this to defenders and midfielders, leave 2 up by the halfway line as brentford did, this means that we had to keep 3 men back to cover them .
Maybe a less packed penalty box just  might let the defenders see what they are supposed to be doing instead of all those body`s confusing the issue, god knows how long we have been using this all back tactic but it patently is not working, yet another goal conceded from a corner ,  if i can see it why cant those in charge.

[Berserker]

Maybe the player's don't do what their told or lack the skills, ability and inteligence to do it

[bill taylors apprentice]

Exactly !

Brentford placing a player on each wing when defending corners meaning we had to have a player marking each one and a third covering.

Its not rocket science !

I'm assuming the theory is to fill the area with bodies and block off their runs, well most teams are far more physical than us they just out muscle anyway.

And if we cant guarantee out muscling most teams heavyweight players to win the ball at least put a player on each post to clear it when when its heading goalwards.

[f321ffc]

Fine if players on the team in possession will track those on the team that doesn't have possession, rather than the other way around.

If they call our bluff and just stick 9 outfield players in the box do we still expect both the front 2 to stay up and leave a free man in our box for the corner?   

Well we seem to be leaving at least 1 and  more often than not 2 or more opposition players free in our box with all our men back, put a couple up on the halfway line and they will have to leave some back to cover ,  don`t think i have ever seen  any team not do this when players are left forward.
Also if we have men up front it gives us an chance should one of ours get the ball of a quick break,

The amount of goal, we are shipping from corners prove  system is not working , time to try something  different.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Fine if players on the team in possession will track those on the team that doesn't have possession, rather than the other way around.

If they call our bluff and just stick 9 outfield players in the box do we still expect both the front 2 to stay up and leave a free man in our box for the corner?

That would really be bold. Normally you would want two defenders to cover one forward left up. Any less and with a forward that can run you are leaving yourself open to a counter-attack with any type of clearance or poorly placed corner.

[epsomraver]

Agree with original poster, leave two men up and they have to cover with three, also if we clear a corner upfield there is no one there and it just falls to the opposition to play it back into the area. However even under roy we did it so what do we know

[epsomraver]

Fine if players on the team in possession will track those on the team that doesn't have possession, rather than the other way around.

If they call our bluff and just stick 9 outfield players in the box do we still expect both the front 2 to stay up and leave a free man in our box for the corner?   

You obviously don't watch many games. leave two players upfield unmarked so if the ball is cleared upfield there is only a goalie to stop them scoring, silly comment really

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

I agree.
I would even be bold and suggest 2 on the halfway line and one between the edge of our box and the halfway line. (that would  be Ross)
The 2 on the halfway should be Moussa and Ryan, for his pace.
The opposition would then need at least 4 back, leaving only 6 in our box against our 8 (inc keeper)
The goalie would then have more space to dominate the box and with no one person to mark would be the equivalent of 2/3 people (in mobility speak) but he would need to be extremely commanding which shouldn't be that difficult in the space left by an uncluttered box.
The other benefit of course is the potential for more counter attacking goals.

As we're letting in so many (and have been) it seems like a win win situation and would certainly confuse the hell out of most teams.
Using this system would also be better if we played Burn + maybe Reamand Stearman and 2 wing backs.

[J.Perkins]

I do believe you should always leave 1 player up the field, however, I trust Gray and his plan.

[f321ffc]

point i was trying to make is gray/the manager may not have total discretion

statistically, attacking teams score from corners far, far more often than defending teams score from counter-attacks immediately following corners

so the priority for the defending team will always be to defend the corner and the priority for the attacking team will be to attack it

hence the team defending the corner is primarily reacting to what the attacking team does, rather than the other way around

otherwise defending teams would just stick their whole team on the half way line  

"statistically, attacking teams score from corners far, far more often than defending teams score from counter-attacks immediately following corners"

That stat is irrelevant as the point i was trying to make is about defending not attacking.

"hence the team defending the corner is primarily reacting to what the attacking team does, rather than the other way around"

Can`t agree with that if we left  a couple up then the attacking team would have to react accordingly .
But the point i was trying to make in the original post is why not vary the defending as all back so obviously  is not working  .

[bill taylors apprentice]

Well! This problem has been going on now for far to long so it time for some thinking outside the box, if you'll excuse the pun!

[jarv]

Bill, you beat me to it. Clearly, everyone back in the box is not working if all our managers do it. How about buying a decent, big, commanding, centre back in January. You know, those English type defenders who love to defend.

[epsomraver]

Bill, you beat me to it. Clearly, everyone back in the box is not working if all our managers do it. How about buying a decent, big, commanding, centre back in January. You know, those English type defenders who love to defend.

Like Burn for example

[epsomraver]

Here's the most recent example I can find of Real Madrid defending a corner in a game they weren't already winning (2 wks ago). All 10 outfield players back. But I obviously don't watch many games so maybe Real Madrid are known to be negative/crap.   

I was talking about your rather silly remark of the opposition calling our bluff and still putting ten men in the box despite us having two men upfield, Ross and Moussa for example, both better used for a counter than trying to head away a corner

[MJG]

Leaving men up is always a game of cat and mouse with the defenders and those sent to the halfway line.... Does a defender try to drag them towards goal... Go for a short corner... Attacker has to go with him.
Or do the two or even three men stay right on the halfway line. When I managed teams I tried doing that,  three men across the halfway line,  tell them not to move. I remember Northampton years ago used to do that.
The basics for corners from my pov is,  a man on each post and at least one man left on halfway line. Can't remember last manager we had who did that.

[colinwhite]

I think alot of our problems at corners are because all of our keepers want to stay on their line . Saturdays goal from the corner was played into the six yard box. In my book the keeper has to go for that ball . Even if he doesnt get a good contact the one thing we can expect is that they wont either .
The other issue is that we dont put our bodies on the line and challenge for balls the way other teams do .
You dont have to be the tallest to win an arial battle , bravery and desire are equally important.
Their keeper caught at least 2 balls from corners ,when was the last time one of our keepers  plucked a corner out of the air? I rest my case .

[colinwhite]

Just to be on the safe side I have just watched that goal again and again. Why is lonergan not going for that ball ? Yet again Dembelle loses his man and Reams player scores at  the far post . He doesnt look keen to get their first and is just going through the motions ,and ball watching. Pathetic defending. A ten grand fine for anyone losing or not challenging his player could work wonders !

[SG]

Keepers have to command the 6 yd box at this level. Last one we had do that really well was Schwarzer. Without that the defence are always struggling. Reading about Klopp at Liverpool yesterday he has told his keepers they must come for everything even if they make a mistake