How many starting eleven players have we got for a top six side ?

[colinwhite]

Our squad may have a bit of depth but our starting eleven is lacking quality in many areas as our record against the top sides have shown this year. Todays game mirrored clearly where alot of the problems lie.
Borough were faster, hungrier and stronger with a solidity about them that we sadly lack.
In my opinion we have four or five starting players in a possible top six side next season, not based on the disappointment of today , but if we are critical and honest .
Parker and Baird dont need to prove anything as far as I am concerned ,but are  both at points in their carreers where they are unlikely to be given starters  week in week out next season ,so they dont make the cut as `starters.

Madl looks the part and is one of few players in our squad that can defend. Cairney has the quality and was agreat signing. Ross has the record and quality so even the most critical of him cant deny that he is definitely a starter in a top  championship side. If I am really honest I am now starting to struggle ,but i would include Dembele(if we can keep him ) although if you look at Middlesborough`s number 9 today he still has a hell of alot to learn.

Okay I will try to be really generous. In the  right company Burn could maybe  do better but today he got exposed again and again looking a liabillity when push came to shove. Garbutt and Fredricks  have promise but arent top six material ,because they cant defend.
Hyndman has the quality and promise ,but looks likely to leave . Bettinelli can grow into the role but has alot to learn and we dont know how long it will take him to get back to his best. Ditto Williams .
For me the rest arent good enough to get us promotion.
We need main men , match starters,  and no more players that are good for the squad who can do a job when needed.
I think another clear out will make things difficult but I cannot see any other way . The signings we make need to be given starters and that is probably at least six players .I think Jocanovik is the right man to move us forward,but it wont be easy.
 

[ffc73]

None

Boro have been relegated for a while now.  It is going to be a long haul to get a new team ready for a promotion challenge.

[colinwhite]

Hard to argue with the borough coaches comments that Nugent and the other guy were better than Ross.

[Mince n Tatties]

None

Boro have been relegated for a while now.  It is going to be a long haul to get a new team ready for a promotion challenge.

Agree..
About 5 of them would struggle in League One Side..

[Brawn]

Obviously everyone has bad days, but probably Bettinelli, Burn, Parker (age notwithstanding), Tunnicliffe, and Ross on a good day.

[colinwhite]

If Karanka said that he's an idiot... unless he was merely observing that Nugent on a good day is better than Ross on a bad day in the same way that Zamora at his best was better than Ronaldo on a bad day

...Back to the OP, are we talking about players who'd walk into any top 6 side or players who could be a fringe/squad player in a top six squad? even the best sides will only have a few key players and some in the squad will just be plain crap

My point is really that we are full of fringe players and need top six players (starters) . Not many of todays starting eleven could compete for a place in Middlesborough`s side.

[davew]

NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! except maybe Ross and he won't be here next season watch this space.

[love4ffc]

Original OP makes some good points.  I would agree we have to many fringe players and not enough top of the table players.  Hopefully Joka is already working on his summer list of players. 

[colinwhite]

Agree that there are fine lines between success and failure for players which may depend on many arbitrary factors where confidence plays a big part.
I just think we have too many players that are second string players ,not main men, game changers, players that effect results positively.
All the players you mention can do a job , but i dont see them as players to build your team around.

[GrahamG]

Cairney. Nobody else except perhaps Parker & Baird as squad members.

[FPT]

I think Statto is about right. I think it's important to note that different players just suit different clubs, coaches and playing styles. We seem to have a lot of players that suit different styles. Take Richard Stearman for example, he was Wolves' first choice centre back when the won the title in 2008-09, that suggests he's more than good enough for a top six side, but then it's potentially because he was in a Mick McCarthy defensively focused team.

Now at one point, Fernando Amorebieta was adjudged to be one of the better central defenders in Spain (outside of Madrid and Barcelona) in Marcelo Bielsa's high pressing team. Is it a coincidence that he's playing he best central defending stuff when Jokanovic's style is most like Bielsa's of the coaches here since Amorebieta joined? Perhaps not.

Ben Pringle another, he scored the winner for Ipswich today to keep their play off hopes alive. I understand he's been playing in a central midfield three on the left which potentially covers his lack of pace. Within Mick McCarthy's team, Ben Pringle is seemingly valuable in his three man midfield that is pushing for a play off spot.

For me, it appears that Michael Madl oozes class at centre back, notably very sturdy since coming to us and could potentially be a top 6 calibre central defender for us and Jokanovic (the important parts). And I think surrounding Tom Cairney and Ross McCormack with the right players is important for us progressing.

What's interesting for me is how Jokanovic continues to mould this side, it's the first real time he's really done it (at least with this financial power). I don't know whether he'll build with a certain shape in mind firstly with the options to change, which is likely, but which shape? For me, Ross McCormack has to be in a striking partnership and Tom Cairney has to be in a midfield three. Really, I think Madl's size suits being in a three man defence which points towards a 352.

Anyway, it's a strange one. I enjoy that we care about how we play, that we want to be nice to watch, that we want to score goals but remain balanced enough to be fairly sturdy at the back. I don't want to go to Craven Cottage and be bored, I want to be entertained.

[colinwhite]

I agree FPT ,but which dummy signed Richard Stearman when it was blatantly obvious that his game at centre  back was not going to suit Fulham, particularly if forming a partnership with Ream , when neither are strong enough without a more powerful player by their side. Burn ? Lacks the experience and defensive know how to compliment either of them . Joka has recognised this early on ,which is one of the reasons we think he will do a good job next year .

[FPT]

I agree FPT ,but which dummy signed Richard Stearman when it was blatantly obvious that his game at centre  back was not going to suit Fulham, particularly if forming a partnership with Ream , when neither are strong enough without a more powerful player by their side. Burn ? Lacks the experience and defensive know how to compliment either of them . Joka has recognised this early on ,which is one of the reasons we think he will do a good job next year .

I don't know, although if I remember rightly, we had two or three options ahead of both Stearman and Ream (Lewis Dunk mainly, although I recall Tom Lees' name being mentioned, and Michael Mancienne too come to think of it). It feels as though we ended up settling with Stearman and Ream, given the deals were done pretty late and cheaper together perhaps than just buying one of Dunk/Lees/Mancienne.

I do think we missed a trick also in not bringing Michael Turner back permanently (or even another loan). I know he's on the older side compared to the rest of the centre backs listed here but he wasn't exactly looking past it. I like Dan Burn, but I think in our 352, Turner would be an upgrade on Burn with his top level experience and credentials.

In hindsight of course, but I think we'd be in a better position had we splashed out on a Tom Lees to secure that quality of centre half and then loan a Michael Turner. Just an example of course. Then again, at the time, I'm sure we were all pretty happy in bringing in Stearman and Ream.

I must say, I do think Jokanovic is the right man for the football club and he will help us progress. I think he'll be stronger against the likes of Mike Rigg in making sure he gets what he wants/needs. We've already seen a glimpse in that with Ross McCormack and Moussa Dembele staying at Fulham come February.

[colinwhite]

Agree with your annalysis. We settled for Stearman and Ream . Lees would have been a good first choice but it didnt happen and although i am sure that Rigg is probably good at his job ,he was not not the man to balance a squad.

We still had a squad with serious flaws in my opinion .It had  little width or pace, a general lack of physicallity or defensive nouse,and leadership. Add to that a whole group of defenders (all of our full backs ) who cant defend very well and it is not surprising that our goals conceded collumn is pitiful.
I dont think Jocanovik is going to put up with compromise , and he does seem to have clarity in what he wants so I really hope that the club backs him all the way . Next season is a big one .