1879 what we can do to get our club back

[snarks]

Snarks. What you wish to wait until it is truely hopeless. Face it we should have dropped into Div 1. Would that have woken you up or would you wait for something more dark?

Please provide at what point you would do anything?

When there was something tangible, not when there is nothing but the fevered impression of over anxious minds that see the premiership as a rightful place because of 13 years of being in it after decades of not being in it.

At the moment I'm disappointed with the team, disappointed with the performances and disappointed with the way player recruitment panned out, disappointed with the constant change of managers.

I'm not disappointed with the chairmans investment or the current manager.

I will ask this for the final time before I give up, because there is no talking to those who do not want to see. But in the name of J. Haynes, name me 1 player just 1 that the chairman has said, "no I will not pay for him to come to the cub".

If I heard those rumours, and I haven't, I might believe Mr Khan was prepared to treat £250 million as my equivalent of 5p and be doing this to turn CC into flats and let Fulham go to the wall. However there is NO EVIDENCE, none, zero, zilch, de nada of this whatsoever, and nor can anyone point to any.

[Arthur]

If you are going to assert that Khan has an ulterior motive, it won't help your cause if the one point you make to support your claim turns out not to be accurate.

On your final point...ie ulterior motive....IMHO...the initial prime driver for Khan's involvement in English football was/is the upcoming London NFL franchise.
It is widely acknowledged that the FFC purchase served/serves an an entree in London political/decisioning-making milieu..which in conjunction with the NFL hierarchy will determine the successful bidder for the London NFL franchise.     Given the economics of this...the price paid to MAF for FFC pales into insignificance....and in any case FFC ...does have a reasonable re-sale value...

I shall bow to your superior knowledge of the NFL. What I can say with certainty, however, is that something that is 'widely acknowledged', cannot, by definition, be said to be an ulterior motive.

[Jim]

So you believe that it was shear incompetence as to why we violated FPP rules. You can't have it both ways. When there is no significant investment in the summer what will you put that down to?

Why are we investing in infrastructure  before getting it right on the field first. Why do have a vision for infrastructure but non for the football side of a football?

Please answer the question with logic please.

[TWFL]

What I can't understand is the seemingly desperate desire of some people to believe that Khan, or A N Other, is running this club into the ground. Is it out of ignorant bliss that you choose to ignore the facts - such as the investment ON THE FIELD (@Jim) - and continue to demand more be done? Or is it just an outright dislike for Khan? Who in my book has done nothing that screams to me as being malicious in intent for our football club.

As some of the more rational posters have said before me, we are just coming off the back of a very successful period in our history, easily argued as the best. 3 years in the second flight is no bad thing. Yes the results haven't been what we've expected and the promises made haven't been fulfilled but that is football. Things don't always go to plan. There are clearly plans in place that are trying - and I emphasise that word as it means there is no guarantee of success merely an effort of obtaining it - to return us to the top flight. We are not that big a club and we cannot demand things. The last 3 years have been bad, yes, but they are not a mark on the happenings of the torrid 80s many had to endure and we should be grateful for that.

REALITY.....

1.  Massive Underperformance....both on an outright basis...and on relative basis (eg vs QPR/Brentford etc).

2.  Repeated Poor Decision-Making...ie the recruitment of Ream/Stearman/Richards...as evidenced by our defensive stats.

3.  Lack of accountability and HONESTY from the Corporate Management...not to mention the Patronising Disrespect shown to the fans in the 'Articles/Press releases' on the Official FFC site.

Do you want me to continue???

The past 3/4 years have been shambolic....and the 'inner clique'..ie MacIntosh et al...and ultimately Khan and his acolytes are responsible.

The behaviour  (booing/chanting etc)  of the fans at Griifin Park on last Saturday was totally understandable..and IMHO totally justified.....and a repeat of this at CC this Saturday would in IMHO be a correct acknowledgement by the fans of the current scandalous situation at our club.

1. Yes you're right this season was a massive underperfomance. That's why we changed managers halfway through. I understand the discontent with that, I obviously thought we'd do a lot better in our first season in the Championship, never mind our second. But a mixture of a manager with no tactics and a group of players who don't fit has led us to another poor season.

2. Richards was an interesting recruitment I'll admit, but he'd shown a bit of promise and had done well for Wales. Kit knew him so wanted him in. The other two you cannot call ridiculous recruitment. Both players of the season at their respective clubs, everyone here thought they were decent buys. The rest of the recruitment was, at the time, rated as good. Kit was obviously going after a certain style (one I didn't agree with, where he was planning on playing all our CMs I don't know) and was given it. Recruitment is an issue to do with the manager imo, he says what he wants and gets given it. So any qualms/praise there, lies with Kit.

3. So these changes being made to the corporate management aren't a sign of recognition that it's gone wrong? Or are we just going to ignore that? 

Interesting you call them responsible. Weren't we the fans the ones lobbying Symons? Didn't Khan put together a panel of 5 people (Fulham fans, former beloved players, former professionals not linked to the club) to choose a new manager because he knew he couldn't do it himself? How on earth can you say that he's not tried to fix this club and the things that have been going wrong with it? The only part for me that I found irregular was the sacking of Meulensteen right at the beginning of his tenure.

Yes the performance on Saturday was crap and deserved the vitriol, I was there and I dished it out too. BUT, what is the point in turning up on Saturday to boo? They bloody well know we're not pleased with what's going on, because you know what? They're not pleased either! Shock horror, they are trying to help this club! Get behind them next season and see what happens.

[Jim]

One other question to answer; what are the priorities of the club: please choose from the following but please feel free to add others

A NFL Jaguars global growth
B Infrastrure  / property development
C Football developing Fulham into a premiership club

What do the facts support?

[TWFL]

So you believe that it was shear incompetence as to why we violated FPP rules. You can't have it both ways. When there is no significant investment in the summer what will you put that down to?

Why are we investing in infrastructure  before getting it right on the field first. Why do have a vision for infrastructure but non for the football side of a football?

Please answer the question with logic please.

I believe the FFP came because we expected ourselves to be back in the PL and so without those restraints. That's how they tried to balance the books, but instead we didn't and were hit with a fine.

Why not invest in infrastructure? You do realise infrastructure is how the teams at the top survive? You can't have the players and the success without the infrastructure. If we want to get up there and stay up there then it's a case of doing both. FFP is not linked to it either so don't worry about it affecting our transfer spendings this summer.

[Jim]

TWFL I understand your point but without a clear vision for the footbal side of Fulham football club what value is the Infrasructure?

If we build a ground to accommodate 30,000 but only 15,000 turn up because of our team performance what value is there in having a good infrastructure?

The priority is to get it right on the field everything else supports that goal.

[Carborundum]

Some seasons are better than others.  Based on long term historical levels of success, we have now got our Fulham back.

What's more likely to stress me out is the prospect of three months with no live football.  Walking out with more than ten minutes to go on Saturday isn't on the cards.  My coping strategy is going to be a combination of Euros, Wimbledon, Tour de France, Hols, Olympics all laced with lashings of transfer rumours and hey presto we are back.  Suspect I'll just about make it through.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I thought that I might write a detailed explanation for the OP on the restrictions of FFP, why the owner is investing in infrastructure and why he is doing it now, which key events took place if different financial periods and why we fell foul of FFP.

Then I thought if the OP hasn't followed these stories or can't be bothered to find out about these things for himself before spouting off then why should I bother.

And this nonsense comes from someone has been a supporter for 60 years and has "been a board director in major corporations".

All that experience and yet it only produces a tantrum.

[valdeingruo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqokueSEVyQ

side note, no supporter is happy?

[snarks]

One other question to answer; what are the priorities of the club: please choose from the following but please feel free to add others

A NFL Jaguars global growth
B Infrastrure  / property development
C Football developing Fulham into a premiership club

What do the facts support?

Well the facts don't support A, they support B for infrastructure for the club but not development of CC for housing and as for C well the chairman has said that's his goal, but you choose not to believe him.

So what are these facts of which you speak apart from a team that's not performed for 2 years

[FulhamStu]

Football clubs like Fulham and most others go through peaks and troughs.  After 13 years where on the footballing side of things we grew to a highly paid squad of experienced players who were generally past or well past their best.  The squad was not suited to the Champoinship (unlike Burney) and hugely too expensive, something had to be done.  Unfortunately the player recruitment, backed by Khan, has simply,not been good enough.  Khan recruited Rigg at considerable cost as he thought he would be able to recruit the right players.  This has so far not worked.  Is this because of Riggs incompetence or Kits lack of ability I am not sure, maybe both ?

For me one of the clubs biggest issues is the clubs very poor PR.  I don't think Fulham have ever been good at this.  It's as though thy are scared of telling the truth as it would be twisted into something negative so they only tell us what they have too and just stick the coach in front of the camera every week.  Where are the statements from Rigg or Mackintosh telling us what's going on with the playing side of things or the latest update on the Riverside ?  What we get is some crap corporate speak probably from the USA that just adds confusion.  My guess is that Sarah Brooks is very constrained and that there are politics behind then scenes.

What I don't see is any lack of vision from Khan, just poor execution from his employees. 

All this leads to frustration amongst the fans, who then come up with their own theories, these gather momentum until people really believe the negative hype.

Many clubs struggle with relegation from the Premier league.  Southampton, Leeds, Sheff United and Wolves, all bigger clubs that Fulham ended in the 1st division.  Bolton and Wigan have done so in the last 2 seasons.  Many others takes years to recover.  Blackburn are in a mess etc etc.

What I don't see is an owner who does not want us to recover or an owner who is not prepared to invest.  We are developing our already excellent facility at Motspur Park.  IF, AND I AGREE ITS STILL AND IF, we continue with the plan and develop the Riverside it will be another massive sign that the owner wants to invest in the club.  It's takes many many years for a plan like this to be delivered where as building a winning football team can be done must quicker, example Leicester City.

So that's my view, Khan has every good intention, we have suffered badly from our relegation, his people have executed very poorly and our communication as a club needs to be far more transparent and far more regular, especially from people at the top of the pyramid.

[westcliff white]

I was asked to start a new thread and give details of how we can express our dissatisfaction with the performance of the team over the last three years. Here goes:
1 on the 18 minute we can either chant give us back our Fulham and wave a card saying the same.

2 we can also walk out after 79 minutes whether we are winning or losing.

It is time we got our club back on track. This approach is also being considered on Fulham Web.

I hope everyone understand the relevance of 1879.

For Gods sake lets do something as opposed to continue to muddle along doing nothing but grip. COYW

Can I ask who asked you to start a new thread on the board about this topic? was it someone from the FoF board? was it someone from Cottage Corner? was it in direct correlation to the post on the friends of Fulham Facebook page?

Also if you have been on the board of Major corporations, as in a board member, you must have a spare few bob, so why don't you ask Shad if he wants some investment and then have a say.

My view is I will always give 100% to the team and management through good and bad, yes I am angry at timers, frustrated at others, but at the end of the day it is Fulham and that is the team I have and will always follow. What most people tend to want is a return to the days when we were in the Prem and holding our own, well yes so would I but I always remember where we were 20 years ago and where we are today is a lot better than that.

SO for me I will be cheering them on fully and backing them as I always do, maybe having a moan on here afterwards but overall trying helping my team  to a win on Saturday.

COYW

[Chutney]

But like Scrumpy said, what are you actually asking for with regards to the protests? To let them know you want the team to win more football games? I reckon they might already be aware of that.   

To let them know that their performance, lack of effort (from players and staff) and ineptitude won't be tolerated. People are quick to forget that we sacked our manager at the start of a two week international break and still went 8 games or so without one.

[N_O_W_S]

Face it we should have dropped into Div 1.

Even on the back of our current poor run of results, we're still 9 points away from occupying a relegation place. I don't see any 'should' in that. 'Might', yes, but to suggest more than this seems an exaggeration.

FPP was something to hide behind this season, perhaps it was designed that way. What will be the excuse this summer for not providing real investment in the team.

When you think about on the field investment don't forget what we got for Patrick Roberts.

You want me to believe that the Club overspent last season in order to purposely invoke a transfer embargo that would enable it to spend less over the two seasons combined. Provide me with a few ballpark figures to show that this is feasible and I'll give it some consideration. Without them, however, this seems nothing other than 'pie-in-the-sky'.

MJG. I have been a board director in major corporations. If someone wasted my money; circa £250million they would have been long gone unless of course I was looking at the long term property investment.

First, the lion's share of the money that our Chairman would need to walk away from this Club without making a loss would be the money that he spent to acquire it in the first place. Secondly, correct me if I'm wrong, whoever was responsible for the biggest single failure to get value for money (i.e. the purchasing of Mitroglou) will, upon Rigg's arrival, have been either demoted, side-shuffled or replaced.

If you are going to assert that Khan has an ulterior motive, it won't help your cause if the one point you make to support your claim turns out not to be accurate.

On your final point...ie ulterior motive....IMHO...the initial prime driver for Khan's involvement in English football was/is the upcoming London NFL franchise.
It is widely acknowledged that the FFC purchase served/serves an an entree in London political/decisioning-making milieu..which in conjunction with the NFL hierarchy will determine the successful bidder for the London NFL franchise.     Given the economics of this...the price paid to MAF for FFC pales into insignificance....and in any case FFC ...does have a reasonable re-sale value...

I'll be honest with you about the NFL.

It's a huge if with regards to London. The international series currently played at Wembley and then onto the new White Heart Lane when complete works brilliantly for them and allows the growing fan base to see a variety of teams.

If there's going to be an NFL team in London it wont be at the cottage. It isn't big enough - even with planned expansion. The NFL games regularly sell out at Wembley and with Under Armour involvement at Tottenham it makes more sense to move a team there than the cottage.

[Holders]

It amazes me to hear that NFL can sell out Wembley. I wouldn't have thought that there were enough American ex-pats suffering withdrawal symptoms ro merit Woking.

[MJG]

But like Scrumpy said, what are you actually asking for with regards to the protests? To let them know you want the team to win more football games? I reckon they might already be aware of that.   

To let them know that their performance, lack of effort (from players and staff) and ineptitude won't be tolerated. People are quick to forget that we sacked our manager at the start of a two week international break and still went 8 games or so without one.

Ok it wont be tolerated....what next then if we dont tolerate it? Seriously what do WE do?

[Roberty]

TWFL I understand your point but without a clear vision for the footbal side of Fulham football club what value is the Infrasructure?

If we build a ground to accommodate 30,000 but only 15,000 turn up because of our team performance what value is there in having a good infrastructure?

The priority is to get it right on the field everything else supports that goal.

Spending on infrastructure is the easy bit - he can spend any amount of money, the structures perform as they were designed to and the building materials do not have a say as who they are being sold to.

On the field it is more difficult - there is a FFP to limit spending not the depth of the owner pocket, players often don't perform as expected when they move to another club and they can say no even though the club their contracted to want to sell them.

I don't think Khan has lacked intent he'd just ended up with players who did not perform as expected or together as a team.

Perhaps this summer we will start with decisions about the system we want to play and find players to fit into that system - "Moneyball" fashion if you like.

[Holders]

Each manager brings his own preferred system but initially has to work with the players he inherits. There have been just too many changes of manager (and then players) since Jol and we need some consistency now even if it means a few more years in the doldrums. Khan cannot use the financial magic wand that was available to Fayed.

[N_O_W_S]

It amazes me to hear that NFL can sell out Wembley. I wouldn't have thought that there were enough American ex-pats suffering withdrawal symptoms ro merit Woking.

I go every year to all three. Its a brilliant day out. Spectacle and more entertaining than much of the cottage this year unfortunately. Not that I'll stop going to either!

Its hugely popular!