The 2016 Official Silly Summer Season Transfer Thread

[Friendsoffulham]

1860 München Brasil
‏@1860Brasil
Adlung interessava à Dynamo Dresden e Fulham, houve conversa, mas não chegou a acertar nenhum tipo de pré-contrato com os clubes.

Translation:
Translated from Portuguese by Bing Wrong translation?
Adlung mattered to Dynamo Dresden and Fulham, there was talk, but did not hit any pre-contract with the clubs.

[cmg]

I think its misleading to lump Roberts, Hyndman and Dembele together as if their cases were exactly the same.
Sure they were all part of the same Academy 'cohort' and they may well all be lost to us but their cases are somewhat different.
We have received decent money for Roberts, increasing to more than decent if he turns out to be as good as we think he might be.
We might not get much for Dembele (if he goes) but we have had one valuable season from him.
Hyndman ( a full international) may be a nil return (or close to) for us - but then he hasn't really done anything for us.

Of the 19 other players who made up the 2012-3 Dallas Cup/PL u18 Cup, 12 can now be said to have not made the grade, at least with us.
LVC and Woodrow (as well as Dembele) have established themselves as 1st team squad.
Tankovic (a full international) has done the same with another club.
G.Williams (a full international), Rodak, Grimmer and Burgess are still with us and we should know next season whether they are pass or fail.

What sort of return does this represent for our Academy investment? I'd like to look into that a bit more, but I do know that many of the FA Youth Cup Final sides of the past have failed to produce a single decent player at senior level. Manchester United-style 'golden generations' are very much in the minority.

[love4ffc]

I think its misleading to lump Roberts, Hyndman and Dembele together as if their cases were exactly the same.
Sure they were all part of the same Academy 'cohort' and they may well all be lost to us but their cases are somewhat different.
We have received decent money for Roberts, increasing to more than decent if he turns out to be as good as we think he might be.
We might not get much for Dembele (if he goes) but we have had one valuable season from him.
Hyndman ( a full international) may be a nil return (or close to) for us - but then he hasn't really done anything for us.

Of the 19 other players who made up the 2012-3 Dallas Cup/PL u18 Cup, 12 can now be said to have not made the grade, at least with us.
LVC and Woodrow (as well as Dembele) have established themselves as 1st team squad.
Tankovic (a full international) has done the same with another club.
G.Williams (a full international), Rodak, Grimmer and Burgess are still with us and we should know next season whether they are pass or fail.

What sort of return does this represent for our Academy investment? I'd like to look into that a bit more, but I do know that many of the FA Youth Cup Final sides of the past have failed to produce a single decent player at senior level. Manchester United-style 'golden generations' are very much in the minority.

What a great intelligent post.  I actually believe that our academy produces lots of great talent.  That is why it is sought out by people.  Sure maybe not all of our academy youngsters to make it to the big time but look who we have and what they have done.  For me that talks to the heart of Fulham and what they can produce. 

[filham]

I think its misleading to lump Roberts, Hyndman and Dembele together as if their cases were exactly the same.
Sure they were all part of the same Academy 'cohort' and they may well all be lost to us but their cases are somewhat different.
We have received decent money for Roberts, increasing to more than decent if he turns out to be as good as we think he might be.
We might not get much for Dembele (if he goes) but we have had one valuable season from him.
Hyndman ( a full international) may be a nil return (or close to) for us - but then he hasn't really done anything for us.

Of the 19 other players who made up the 2012-3 Dallas Cup/PL u18 Cup, 12 can now be said to have not made the grade, at least with us.
LVC and Woodrow (as well as Dembele) have established themselves as 1st team squad.
Tankovic (a full international) has done the same with another club.
G.Williams (a full international), Rodak, Grimmer and Burgess are still with us and we should know next season whether they are pass or fail.

What sort of return does this represent for our Academy investment? I'd like to look into that a bit more, but I do know that many of the FA Youth Cup Final sides of the past have failed to produce a single decent player at senior level. Manchester United-style 'golden generations' are very much in the minority.

A good and thoughtful post but the bottom line has to be how have the club benefitted from all the good work by the academy. Only two things are to be counted , money received in transfer fees and first team appearances.

We received some £10m for Roberts and we have had one good season from Dembele, this is a very poor return for all the talent that has been around and all of the expectations we had.

[cmg]

I think its misleading to lump Roberts, Hyndman and Dembele together as if their cases were exactly the same.......Manchester United-style 'golden generations' are very much in the minority.

A good and thoughtful post but the bottom line has to be how have the club benefitted from all the good work by the academy. Only two things are to be counted , money received in transfer fees and first team appearances.

We received some £10m for Roberts and we have had one good season from Dembele, this is a very poor return for all the talent that has been around and all of the expectations we had.

I agree with your first paragraph. Although it slightly grates against my old socialist (remember them?) principles.  I kind of feel some satisfaction is due from having identified and developed top-class footballers, but I guess satisfaction doesn't pay any bills!

As to the second para, I think one should add LVC and Woodrow to the credit side. Also our first and (probably) second choice goalkeepers are from an earlier Academy intake.

[MJG]

The last figures I saw acouple of years ago are that a category 1 youth system should have spent on it least 2.3m per year. That does not include wages I believe but the total running costs of coaches and everything else related to it.

[cmg]

As a sort of follow up to the interesting comments above and, perhaps, to provide a bit of evidence as to how difficult it is to make the transition from junior to senior football. It is a bit easier for players at Fulham's level to make the first team than for those at Chelsea, but still it's quite instructive, I feel:

On 23 Feb 2013 Fulham u18 beat Chelsea u18 5-0 at Motspur Park.
Fulham started: Oberschmidt, Donnelly, Arthurworrey, O'Reilly, Richards, Sambou, Hyndman, Roberts, Dembele, Tankovic, G Williams.

We now know what has happened to them. What about the Chelsea lads?

This was their team. I add the number of 1st team appearences since made for any FL or PL team, and where they are now:
Ben Killip                 0      Norwich u21
Fankaly Dabo           0      Chelsea u21
Jonathan Muleba      0      Bournemouth u21 (released)
Dion Conroy             0      Chelsea u21
Kevin Wright            0      Chelsea u21 (released)
Isak Sswankambo    0      Molde (Sweden) [played 1 L.Cup game for Derby]
Reese Mitchell          0      Chelsea u21 (out of contract)
Jesse Starkey           0      Brighton u21 (out of contract)
Ruben Loftus-Cheek 14     Chelsea and a likely future star
Tom Howard              0     Merstham (Isthmian Lge)
Chike Kandi               0     Brighton u21
     

[MJG]

As a sort of follow up to the interesting comments above and, perhaps, to provide a bit of evidence as to how difficult it is to make the transition from junior to senior football. It is a bit easier for players at Fulham's level to make the first team than for those at Chelsea, but still it's quite instructive, I feel:

On 23 Feb 2013 Fulham u18 beat Chelsea u18 5-0 at Motspur Park.
Fulham started: Oberschmidt, Donnelly, Arthurworrey, O'Reilly, Richards, Sambou, Hyndman, Roberts, Dembele, Tankovic, G Williams.

We now know what has happened to them. What about the Chelsea lads?

This was their team. I add the number of 1st team appearences since made for any FL or PL team, and where they are now:
Ben Killip                 0      Norwich u21
Fankaly Dabo           0      Chelsea u21
Jonathan Muleba      0      Bournemouth u21 (released)
Dion Conroy             0      Chelsea u21
Kevin Wright            0      Chelsea u21 (released)
Isak Sswankambo    0      Molde (Sweden) [played 1 L.Cup game for Derby]
Reese Mitchell          0      Chelsea u21 (out of contract)
Jesse Starkey           0      Brighton u21 (out of contract)
Ruben Loftus-Cheek 14     Chelsea and a likely future star
Tom Howard              0     Merstham (Isthmian Lge)
Chike Kandi               0     Brighton u21
     

I wrote this late last year about the Dallas squad of 2013

http://www.vivaelfulham.co.uk/articles/dallas-and-beyond-7-669.html

[cookieg]

What is really shocking is the number of players who are at a club from U18 and are then still in the game at U21 and how many of those who drop out of football altogether by the age of 25. There must be something wrong with our way of coaching that so many promising youngsters don't make it or just give up football completely.

[MJG]

The last figures I saw acouple of years ago are that a category 1 youth system should have spent on it least 2.3m per year. That does not include wages I believe but the total running costs of coaches and everything else related to it.

so you need to be churning out a roberts or dembele every year 

or every other year if you take Roberts fee as 5m because that would pay for two years

[Carborundum]

We all know that the odds for a youngster entering the academy at 16 are stacked against.  But I've been trying to work out the best way to express those odds.  Here's where I have got to.

We have a premier league set up for our academy.  The eleven on the pitch for an under 18 match have an age spread of two years.  The eleven playing for a premier league first team will have an age spread of, say 12 years.  So five out of six will likely fall by the wayside, at least in terms of playing first choice at premier league level.  The trouble with this analysis is that my gut tells me the chances are even worse, but I can't quite figure out why.

None of our academy graduates have yet made it into a stable premier league (or European equivalent) starting role.  But it's early days and Roberts and Dembele are well on track, with LVC and Hyndman and Bettinelli plausible candidates if they keep developing.  Trotta and Tankovic out there are doing OK and may yet bloom. 

As return on investment in money, it's hard to say where we stand, but it's not my money so I don't really care.  As a return in the time invested by the coaching staff,  I'd say there is plenty to be proud of.  I have enjoyed watching Dembele and LVC.  Ironically Roberts affected my life about as much as Bitcoin - tradeable value, but almost completely out of sight. 

Seems to me that talented young footballers can view Fulham as somewhere where personal dedication and some good fortune will allow them to flourish.

[mike_corkcity12]

If papers are to be believed Sheff Wed bid £5 million for Hanley whereas we bid £1.5 million....

[Mince n Tatties]

If papers are to be believed Sheff Wed bid £5 million for Hanley whereas we bid £1.5 million....

And Dunk off to Palace.
So that will be two centre backs missed out on.

[kdjr100]

I'd like to add to this that as we have seen all too often - investing that money in outside players coming in for the first team offers no certainty of success either. I would think that it would be helpful to compare successful academy graduates to the amount of successful incoming transfers in the last few years (because we've had some shockers from both!).

Additionally having an active and blossoming academy keeps a football club culturally relevant. When things aren't going well on the pitch and a club is quickly drifting into obscurity, a well known academy keeps the club in peoples minds - be this the minds of behind the scenes staff, potential fans, future youth and senior players. The club is more than the 11 players on the pitch and a manager - it is all of the work in the community and it's contribution to the footballing world as a whole, the development of young players is a massive part of this. I totally believe that it would be detrimental to the stature of the football club to attempt to quantify the value of the academy.

It offers a degree of stability in a turbulent landscape and allows a club with a platform from which to rebuild should things go wrong.

[filham]

If papers are to be believed Sheff Wed bid £5 million for Hanley whereas we bid £1.5 million....

And Dunk off to Palace.
So that will be two centre backs missed out on.

If Dunk is going to Palace then that probably triggers a move down a division or two for Hangeland. ?

[Wearethewhites]

If papers are to be believed Sheff Wed bid £5 million for Hanley whereas we bid £1.5 million....

Rediculous if true, he is worth nowhere near that amount.

[@jolslover]

If papers are to be believed Sheff Wed bid £5 million for Hanley whereas we bid £1.5 million....

And Dunk off to Palace.
So that will be two centre backs missed out on.

If Dunk is going to Palace then that probably triggers a move down a division or two for Hangeland. ?

I think him and Mariappa have already been released, Would have them both.

[Lighthouse]

Fulham are interested in signing Verona goalkeeper Pierluigi Gollini, according to reports from Italy.

Slavisa Jokanovic has made the capture of a new custodian a priority following the surprise departure of Andy Lonergan to Wolves last week and the 21 year-old Gollini is set to leave Verona after they were relegated to Serie B. Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport says that Gollini is a target for both Fulham and Fiorentina and that Gollina could be tempted by a return to England after previously being on the books of Manchester United during his teenage years.

The Italian under-21 international, who has previously been linked with a move to Everton, made 27 first team appearances for Verona last season, and is under contract with the club until the summer of 2019. It is thought that his current employers would want around £1m for his services.

[westcliff white]

We have nit bid for Dunk this close season, so we cant class that as a missed player this year (certainly missed out last year), as foir Hanley he isn't worth 5 million so if that' s his fee glad we missed out.

[hovewhite]

Shows the lack of quality CBs available,also they have to better than what we have and signing madl was a masterstroke by SJ also if  amore stays backed up by stearman(as he can only be better next season)  backed up by a new defensive midfielder and leader who controls the pace of games we should be better next season.Along with parker getting a run of games,leaves the width of the team to be addressed by SJ to go forward we need wide players so that Fredericks has some proper competition !