Should we close our academy?

[mike_corkcity12]

As some of you are aware Brentford have closed their academy. However it is not due to spurious reasons such as they cannot afford to run it. There statement makes for very interesting reading. I've picked out a few interesting sentences from their statement here.

"We cannot outspend the vast majority of our competitors therefore we will never shy away from taking the kind of decision that can give us a competitive edge." Brentford have had alot of their Academy staff plucked by bigger clubs. The constant churn of hiring and replacing is evidently one they want to get away from. Even recently Fulham signed their Academy recruitment scout to act as our first team scout.

"As a London club, there is strong competition for the best young players". Something which wasn't helped by them being a Category 2 Academy.


"The development of young players must make sense from a business perspective. The review has highlighted that, in a football environment where the biggest Premier League clubs seek to sign the best young players before they can graduate through an Academy system, the challenge of developing value through that system is extremely difficult."

"Instead, we will be running an elite squad of around 18 players aged 17-21. The new Development Squad will benefit from close links to the senior squad and a clear pathway into First Team football. We intend that this clear commitment to the development pathway will stand Brentford apart as a stand-out option for the most talented young players. The Club will specialise in developing one age group rather than trying to master the whole talent spectrum."

This is an interesting proposition. The quote in bold is a particularly intriguing solution to the difficulties of producing footballers from the Academy. How often is that a player from under 8 level progresses to even close to the first team? Not often I would say. We had Josh Passley I think achieve this. And is the financial return even worth it? Jordan Henderson's fee more than justified Sunderland's academy (fee close to £20 million pounds). But look at Fulham, we spent in the region of 300k to sign Moussa Dembele. Then there is the cost of wages, him training at the academy and so on. Depending on who he moves to we won't even recoup the 300k and other associated costs! Then Roberts left for a relative pittance with absurd clauses from what I have read. Hyndman also likely to go on a free. Tankovic left on a free and so on.


So should we follow the Brentford route? I'm keen to see how it unfolds.

[J.Perkins]

We have a vastly more successful academy than them. We have multiple the times of money avaliable to spend on the academy. So, no.

[filham]

This is easy to decide if you have access to the clubs financial records. Simply compare the cost of running the academy over the last twenty years with the transfer value of players produced.
I suspect the answer would be a clear it is not value for money.

[Robbie]

Interesting debate. Essentially most Academies now seem to be entirely separate businesses. That is fine if they make money, else why bother?

[BedsFFC]

I posted the thread the other day and said it was an interesting move.

In truth, I think it might be smart as it gives them a USP against local competition (us being a major one) for players of that age group.

I think some don't quite understand the implications and I have seen many people slagging them off for their actions. Ultimately, they want Brentford FC first team to do well.

If your a 17 year old and you believe you have what it takes, you had the choice between the shiny academy set ups of us and chelsea etc or the somewhat inferior ones at brentford. Now what you have is the same shiny option or being on the fringes of the first team and essentially part of the first team set up of a championship club.

I think people deriding it, don't understand it and no doubt it will have raised a few eyebrows at Motspur park. They certainly will have something different to offer some of the senior boys currently at Fulham.


To answer the question. No, I think having an academy will be the best option in the longer term. I think bfc may grab a few players over a season or two but I do think it is too short sighted a policy and once they do it, they become so far behind if they ever want to change the position.

We need to be reactive and maybe look at our development squad. In many ways, it may do us good if we react positively.

[Nero]

seems what they are going to do is going to try and pick off the good players from other clubs at about the age of 16/17 with the lure of being in the first team squad, and without the addition cost of the u8 to u15 have more money to tempted them to join and try and compete with the wages that some of the bigger clubs pay these youngsters.

[Burt]

It's an interesting debate.

It would be useful to understand what the financial model behind our academy is and whether we are really seeing the benefits of it...

I suspect that the sale of the odd talented youngster to a bigger club (Smalling, Roberts) probably is essential to maintain the funding but in return for that funding do we see the benefits of a conveyorbelt of young talent continually breaking in to the first team? I would contend that we don't really see any "volume" with the end-product, although if you compare this to a few seasons ago then the trajectory is certainly heading in the right direction.

Perhaps now that we are not part of the premier league we will see more benefit from this, in so much as if we were still in the top tier we were more likely to get experienced players in rather than be prepared to give our own youngsters a break. The balance has probably shifted now.

[H4usuallysitting]

Would it not be cheaper to fund an overseas academy, linked to a bigger club - someone like Juve, Milan or PSG....this way we would get second dibs on some if the best talent around.....just an idea

[One Martin Thomas]

I know it is natural selection and they we may do it too, but I don't like the way the bigger clubs are picking off players with any form of talent what so ever.  Let kids be kids and allow them to develop near their families at local clubs.

[cmg]

This is easy to decide if you have access to the clubs financial records. Simply compare the cost of running the academy over the last twenty years with the transfer value of players produced.
I suspect the answer would be a clear it is not value for money.

Basing my conclusion on exactly the same information as your good self, I suspect that the answer would be clear that it is value for money.

My opinion is that it would be a totally insane thing to do.

I can't, off hand, think of anything I'd want to copy from Brentford. Even having a pub at each corner of the ground would be a poor move as two of them would be under water twice a day.

[bill taylors apprentice]

I lean towards keeping the Academy open but I have always had doubts about having kids from 8 to say 12 or 13.

The way kids develop during those years has always made me wary of the need to have in house teams at these ages?
I'm sure some will say the earlier you get them in the quicker you can mould them into better players but I strongly believe its only around 15 or 16 that you start to see a boys real potential as an adult player.

You could spend some of the money on supporting local boys teams in all sorts of ways and helping to give kids game time but I'm not convinced 99.9% of kids at 8 to 13 need the academy system.

Of course with the number of kids going through any academy the law of averages says the majority of pro's will have come from it but how many of our successful youngsters in recent years were brought in at 15/16 rather than were local kids at 8/13?

I think there's some merit in their plan for certain clubs   

[GloucesterWhite]

Are the costs of running the academy not outside of FFP? In which case it seems a no-brainer to keep it. Any profit from the sale of players is available to reinvest in the first team, and every now and then there will be one or two youngsters that actually make it through to the first team squad, saving money on incoming transfers. A win-win.

[MJG]

No

[Berserker]

It is a way for the club to make money so no. Also it is a way the club can bring on youngsters and give a chance to get on in life

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[Dodger53]

Yes