Russia world cup

[nose]

Insofar as it is pretty much proved there was state led corruption in Russian sport, then you have to be deaf dumb blind and stupid to believe the russian world cup success was Kosher.

Or in other words how is it possible that Russia are being allowed to host the world cup, removing it would be a proper punishment and total shaming of their disreputable contempt for the world.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

There have been allegations against most countries who won hosting rights including Germany.

[nose]

There have been allegations against most countries who won hosting rights including Germany.

There have and many of them having be outrageous. However, what is so different now is that we were supposed to have cleaned up the act whilst it was obvious FIFA itself was a corrupt as anything, therefiore the whole process of Russia and the nonsense of the world cup that follows, in any normal world with natural justice applying, would re-run both events.

If we are serious about being honest in sport we have to not let russia host the world cup, and the 2022 competiton re-run.

[Logicalman]

I believe we need to avoid the issues surrounding human rights, and keep it solely in the eye of the values of what sport is about, fairness in play and corruption in the various FA's.

In saying that though, the recent votes by FIFA as to the next two WCF's should be revisited, irrespective of who the 'winners' actually were.

[Logicalman]

self righteous? not at all.

If we were to start taking into account everything that somebody disagrees with, or has a problem with outside of the game itself, then there would be very few countries that would qualify. That is not to say the human rights abuses are not to be accounted for, but as we have seen on this board alone, we each have different views on the same countries, and so it seems prudent to reduce possible prejudices when looking at this kind of thing. The same countries that practice the human rights abuses we have been informed of in Qatar might also provide further characteristics about the country that would inhibit them from being truly eligible.

[Lighthouse]

The State sponsored doping scandal of its athletes has led to nothing as we are about to see in the Olympics. I for one have no interest in watching drug cheats compete with other drug cheats. I no longer trust sport or my own nation not to be cheating.

To allow Russia the World Cup and to allow the World Cup anyway to continue when we know the whole scandal surrounding bribes and payments is a farce.

I love to watch sport and will continue to do so. But the future is to make things smaller not bigger. I will not bother much with The Olympics. The World Cup is a money making, bribe taking exercise. It is shameful and we as supporters should have no interest in it.

[Logicalman]

The State sponsored doping scandal of its athletes has led to nothing as we are about to see in the Olympics. I for one have no interest in watching drug cheats compete with other drug cheats. I no longer trust sport or my own nation not to be cheating.

To allow Russia the World Cup and to allow the World Cup anyway to continue when we know the whole scandal surrounding bribes and payments is a farce.

I love to watch sport and will continue to do so. But the future is to make things smaller not bigger. I will not bother much with The Olympics. The World Cup is a money making, bribe taking exercise. It is shameful and we as supporters should have no interest in it.

I agree with you. It was good to see the IOC take the stance they did, refreshing might be a better description. For the Russian and Qatar WCFs to continue is a farce as they were 'decided' by and under a corrupt organization, notwithstanding the more recent news of government corruption in sport that has now been unveiled.

[fulhamben]

The State sponsored doping scandal of its athletes has led to nothing as we are about to see in the Olympics. I for one have no interest in watching drug cheats compete with other drug cheats. I no longer trust sport or my own nation not to be cheating.

To allow Russia the World Cup and to allow the World Cup anyway to continue when we know the whole scandal surrounding bribes and payments is a farce.

I love to watch sport and will continue to do so. But the future is to make things smaller not bigger. I will not bother much with The Olympics. The World Cup is a money making, bribe taking exercise. It is shameful and we as supporters should have no interest in it.

I agree with you. It was good to see the IOC take the stance they did, refreshing might be a better description. For the Russian and Qatar WCFs to continue is a farce as they were 'decided' by and under a corrupt organization, notwithstanding the more recent news of government corruption in sport that has now been unveiled.

didn't the ioc just put the responsibility onto the bodies of individual sports. Some stance that.

[Logicalman]

Perfectly correct FulhamBen, my bad call, it was the IAAF's ruling I mixed up with the OIC one this past few days.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

[fulhamben]

Perfectly correct FulhamBen, my bad call, it was the IAAF's ruling I mixed up with the OIC one this past few days.

Yes it's all super confusing, but no suprise that they bottled it and no suprise that the sports dependant on Russian funding aren't banging cheats. I love the Olympics but this one is tarnished before it starts

[Mokes]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

Thats ridiculous. Private companies don't really represent "The west". People in charge of big businesses are in general compassionless ####holes. It's in their nature to care only about profits, thats how they get rich. The fact that they are allowed to get away with it in Qatar is the problem.


* That's not me condoning their actions. The CEO's of the companies doing this should be held equally accountable for the lives of victims.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

Thats ridiculous. Private companies don't really represent "The west". People in charge of big businesses are in general compassionless ####holes. It's in their nature to care only about profits, thats how they get rich. The fact that they are allowed to get away with it in Qatar is the problem.


* That's not me condoning their actions. The CEO's of the companies doing this should be held equally accountable for the lives of victims.

No my argument is not ridiculous. The western governments do not impose sanctions to prevent their companies trading here - so yes the west is fully complicit in the human rights abuses here and has no right to take the moral high ground

[Logicalman]

Perfectly correct FulhamBen, my bad call, it was the IAAF's ruling I mixed up with the OIC one this past few days.

Yes it's all super confusing, but no suprise that they bottled it and no suprise that the sports dependant on Russian funding aren't banging cheats. I love the Olympics but this one is tarnished before it starts

I agree, especially confusing for me! Anyways, I see that a further 37 Russians will be asking for a flight refund in the next couple of days as well, perhaps someone will investigate the IOC at some stage?  I also see that HBO are to air a 'special investigation' of the IOC following their failure to ban Rusia outright. Wonder how the French investigation into the 2013 corruption in the IOC is coming along?

[Mokes]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

Thats ridiculous. Private companies don't really represent "The west". People in charge of big businesses are in general compassionless ####holes. It's in their nature to care only about profits, thats how they get rich. The fact that they are allowed to get away with it in Qatar is the problem.


* That's not me condoning their actions. The CEO's of the companies doing this should be held equally accountable for the lives of victims.

No my argument is not ridiculous. The western governments do not impose sanctions to prevent their companies trading here - so yes the west is fully complicit in the human rights abuses here and has no right to take the moral high ground

Are companies like Hilton Etc government run companies..? What right does the government of say America have to put a sanction on a private companies dealings in Qatar?

Sure they can say it's morally wrong and they they should feel guilty for taking advantage of people, but as if Hilton is going to care about that. They will exploit whatever they can legally get away with within the laws of the country they're operating in.

If a Qatar based company, was building in the states and thousands of underpaid workers were dying in unsafe working conditions it would be America who would sort that sh!t out.

If the Qatar government can't sort it out for whatever reasons they shouldn't be hosting the cup.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

Thats ridiculous. Private companies don't really represent "The west". People in charge of big businesses are in general compassionless ####holes. It's in their nature to care only about profits, thats how they get rich. The fact that they are allowed to get away with it in Qatar is the problem.


* That's not me condoning their actions. The CEO's of the companies doing this should be held equally accountable for the lives of victims.

No my argument is not ridiculous. The western governments do not impose sanctions to prevent their companies trading here - so yes the west is fully complicit in the human rights abuses here and has no right to take the moral high ground

Are companies like Hilton Etc government run companies..? What right does the government of say America have to put a sanction on a private companies dealings in Qatar?

Sure they can say it's morally wrong and they they should feel guilty for taking advantage of people, but as if Hilton is going to care about that. They will exploit whatever they can legally get away with within the laws of the country they're operating in.

If a Qatar based company, was building in the states and thousands of underpaid workers were dying in unsafe working conditions it would be America who would sort that sh!t out.

If the Qatar government can't sort it out for whatever reasons they shouldn't be hosting the cup.

What do you mean usa government has no right to sanction private companies. Government esp USA do this all he time. Recently there were sanctions on Iran and currently there are sanctions on North Korea and Burma - these sanctions stop private companies trading in and with these countries.

On the one hand westerners like to criticise places like Qatar and China and Russia , on the other hand when money is to be made they are quite happy trading with and in such countries. Specifically in Qatar the western capitalist system through its companies is supporting the construction industry which does indeed treat its workers appallingly. Us and Europe considers Qatar an ally so it's happy to turn a blind eye but at the same time criticise the Qatari regime when it suits them.

[Twig]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

Thats ridiculous. Private companies don't really represent "The west". People in charge of big businesses are in general compassionless ####holes. It's in their nature to care only about profits, thats how they get rich. The fact that they are allowed to get away with it in Qatar is the problem.


* That's not me condoning their actions. The CEO's of the companies doing this should be held equally accountable for the lives of victims.

No my argument is not ridiculous. The western governments do not impose sanctions to prevent their companies trading here - so yes the west is fully complicit in the human rights abuses here and has no right to take the moral high ground

Are companies like Hilton Etc government run companies..? What right does the government of say America have to put a sanction on a private companies dealings in Qatar?

Sure they can say it's morally wrong and they they should feel guilty for taking advantage of people, but as if Hilton is going to care about that. They will exploit whatever they can legally get away with within the laws of the country they're operating in.

If a Qatar based company, was building in the states and thousands of underpaid workers were dying in unsafe working conditions it would be America who would sort that sh!t out.

If the Qatar government can't sort it out for whatever reasons they shouldn't be hosting the cup.

What do you mean usa government has no right to sanction private companies. Government esp USA do this all he time. Recently there were sanctions on Iran and currently there are sanctions on North Korea and Burma - these sanctions stop private companies trading in and with these countries.

On the one hand westerners like to criticise places like Qatar and China and Russia , on the other hand when money is to be made they are quite happy trading with and in such countries. Specifically in Qatar the western capitalist system through its companies is supporting the construction industry which does indeed treat its workers appallingly. Us and Europe considers Qatar an ally so it's happy to turn a blind eye but at the same time criticise the Qatari regime when it suits them.

Spot on.  It is naive and far too simplistic to characterise this as Qatar bad/ West good.

[Mokes]

Football should not allow Russia or Qatar to host the World Cup, both as corrupt and obscene as each other. What have either given football, Russia only the Octupus Lev Yashin, as for The other mob Qatar absolutely nothing, but taken much. Their standard of the appalling human rights among other evil deeds alone should expunge Qatar to history. Although they have no history as far as football is concerned. So the Evil Deeds of Sepp Blatter and his cronies lives on in those two shamed and corrupt countries.

Woolly - all of the construction companies employing slave labour here are western companies some of them British e.g Balfour Beatty. Many of the buildings they are building are well known western brand hotels e.g Hilton. The west is fully complicit in human rights abuses here so the west has no right to condemn anything which goes on here.

Thats ridiculous. Private companies don't really represent "The west". People in charge of big businesses are in general compassionless ####holes. It's in their nature to care only about profits, thats how they get rich. The fact that they are allowed to get away with it in Qatar is the problem.


* That's not me condoning their actions. The CEO's of the companies doing this should be held equally accountable for the lives of victims.

No my argument is not ridiculous. The western governments do not impose sanctions to prevent their companies trading here - so yes the west is fully complicit in the human rights abuses here and has no right to take the moral high ground

Are companies like Hilton Etc government run companies..? What right does the government of say America have to put a sanction on a private companies dealings in Qatar?

Sure they can say it's morally wrong and they they should feel guilty for taking advantage of people, but as if Hilton is going to care about that. They will exploit whatever they can legally get away with within the laws of the country they're operating in.

If a Qatar based company, was building in the states and thousands of underpaid workers were dying in unsafe working conditions it would be America who would sort that sh!t out.

If the Qatar government can't sort it out for whatever reasons they shouldn't be hosting the cup.

What do you mean usa government has no right to sanction private companies. Government esp USA do this all he time. Recently there were sanctions on Iran and currently there are sanctions on North Korea and Burma - these sanctions stop private companies trading in and with these countries.

On the one hand westerners like to criticise places like Qatar and China and Russia , on the other hand when money is to be made they are quite happy trading with and in such countries. Specifically in Qatar the western capitalist system through its companies is supporting the construction industry which does indeed treat its workers appallingly. Us and Europe considers Qatar an ally so it's happy to turn a blind eye but at the same time criticise the Qatari regime when it suits them.

The US have that no trade thing with Cuba too, and it's BS.

You pretty much nail it when you say that The US and Europe consider Qatar as an ally. Why would the governments want to cause friction between the two countries buy putting in a trade ban. There is no reason why any private businesses should be banned from operating in another country, so long as they comply with the other countries laws. (And are not selling weapons or anything like that)

It's not that difficult to put a rule in place, that if a government is too incompetent to enforce what should be a common law, in human rights violations, then that country should not be given a world cup until they can show that they can build stadia without the deaths of thousands of workers. Every other country to host the World Cup has managed it.

It's not even like Qatar is a poor country. It's one of the richest in the world. It has the capacity to do it legally and above board but they're taking short cuts. It's insane to blame anyone but the Qatari government for allowing it to happen on their soil.