Let's get last night in to context

[Riversider]

I don't know whether you are all aware or not, but just a few hours before kick off the F.A took retrospective action against Kyle McFadzean for an incident against Wolves at the weekend, this meant that Burton were forced to move from 3-5-2 in to a 4-4-2 for the first time this season, all this with a few hours notice,
Kyle McFadzean is their rock at the back, and this was a big loss to them,
Further forward their main attacking threat Akins missed the game due to an injury picked up at the weekend another blow to them in an attacking sense,
And finally their inspirational captain, John Mousinho was also out due to injury,
3 losses like this to a club the size of Burton is a hell of a hurdle to overcome , and yet we looked lethargic and most worryingly clueless,
Forget promotion , one win in four at home is relegation form , and next up at home is Bristol City !! (Who incidentally have got a Chelsea loanee scoring goals for fun)
If a poll had been conducted before the Cardiff game as to how many points we would take over the next 3 home games, Cardiff, Birmingham and Burton, I doubt very much that one single person would have said 2 points !
Jokanovic has suddenly been found wanting tactically, he couldn't address it after the Cardiff game for the visit of Birmingham , and he certainly didn't address the issues last night,
I made a comment last night at the game, "Penny for the thoughts of Woodrow and LVC sat on the Cottage balcony having to watch this crap "
How the hell does LVC not even make the 18, his runs from midfield towards goal always have urgency and invariably have an end product,
The jury is out on Aloko, Kebano and Ayite for me if they can't do it on a perfect night of 28 degrees , so I would drop one of them and bring LVC and I would drop Smith from the bench and bring Woodrow back,
One final point, is it correct that we've paid a loan fee of around £3 million for Martin and we've agreed a deal in principal for him to join us for £9 million next summer

[hovewhite]

I don't know whether you are all aware or not, but just a few hours before kick off the F.A took retrospective action against Kyle McFadzean for an incident against Wolves at the weekend, this meant that Burton were forced to move from 3-5-2 in to a 4-4-2 for the first time this season, all this with a few hours notice,
Kyle McFadzean is their rock at the back, and this was a big loss to them,
Further forward their main attacking threat Akins missed the game due to an injury picked up at the weekend another blow to them in an attacking sense,
And finally their inspirational captain, John Mousinho was also out due to injury,
3 losses like this to a club the size of Burton is a hell of a hurdle to overcome , and yet we looked lethargic and most worryingly clueless,
Forget promotion , one win in four at home is relegation form , and next up at home is Bristol City !! (Who incidentally have got a Chelsea loanee scoring goals for fun)
If a poll had been conducted before the Cardiff game as to how many points we would take over the next 3 home games, Cardiff, Birmingham and Burton, I doubt very much that one single person would have said 2 points !
Jokanovic has suddenly been found wanting tactically, he couldn't address it after the Cardiff game for the visit of Birmingham , and he certainly didn't address the issues last night,
I made a comment last night at the game, "Penny for the thoughts of Woodrow and LVC sat on the Cottage balcony having to watch this crap "
How the hell does LVC not even make the 18, his runs from midfield towards goal always have urgency and invariably have an end product,
The jury is out on Aloko, Kebano and Ayite for me if they can't do it on a perfect night of 28 degrees , so I would drop one of them and bring LVC and I would drop Smith from the bench and bring Woodrow back,
One final point, is it correct that we've paid a loan fee of around £3 million for Martin and we've agreed a deal in principal for him to join us for £9 million next summer

[Lighthouse]

As I have said elsewhere. Martin is a back to goal player with flicks and passes that bring players in around him. Woodrow isn't. It is a long season and LVC will get his chance. As for suggesting that because of injury and suspension to some of their players we were clueless and lethargic I think is a tad over dramatic. We looked from day one a side that is better on the counter and are having problems at home. But we must remember that this team is a work in progress. We are not going to find instant success and it will take a little more rebuilding before we become a top team in this division.

Joka does need to sort tactics. The Brum game and this one has proved teams have us sussed already. But again suggesting Woodrow and LVC were watching 'this crap' and could do any better against a well drilled side who had very little imagination but to defend deep and wind up the fans and players. Is I feel overstating it. Frustrating but works in progress often are.

[Riversider]

And it all started so we'll,then comes the doubters out of there boxes!!
[/quote]

I believe it's "their" not "there"

[Carborundum]

Reading these comments, I've a confession to make.  I'm not sure I want us to get promoted this year.  Have to say I'm more interested in contemplating a team like Burton's characteristics than Chelsea's.

Thoroughly enjoyed last night.  The game had a clear and absorbing narrative.  Plenty of effort on display.  A twist at the end that wasn't quite the joyful ending we hoped for, but at least involved the bad guys getting some just desserts.  Signs that we have scope to improve.  The only bit I didn't like was the time wasting, which I view as providing less of the football I have paid to watch.  All in all two hours of escapist drama at the best ground in the country. 

Promotion means fewer games, stranger kick off times, more late schedule changes, higher prices.  What I actually want is to watch our team excel on the pitch, which means promotion looms as an unfortunate by product.

I can see why our owner, manager and players want promotion.  And I'm sensitive to fans who can't make it to the Cottage and find it easier to follow us in the Premier League.  But a promotion-or-bust mentality isn't resonating with me.

[H4usuallysitting]

I think most of us have said that a top half finish would be a good season for us......yes, I'd love us to be challenging at the end of the season, but you'd be a brave soul to put money on it

[Lighthouse]

Reading these comments, I've a confession to make.  I'm not sure I want us to get promoted this year.  Have to say I'm more interested in contemplating a team like Burton's characteristics than Chelsea's.

Thoroughly enjoyed last night.  The game had a clear and absorbing narrative.  Plenty of effort on display.  A twist at the end that wasn't quite the joyful ending we hoped for, but at least involved the bad guys getting some just desserts.  Signs that we have scope to improve.  The only bit I didn't like was the time wasting, which I view as providing less of the football I have paid to watch.  All in all two hours of escapist drama at the best ground in the country. 

Promotion means fewer games, stranger kick off times, more late schedule changes, higher prices.  What I actually want is to watch our team excel on the pitch, which means promotion looms as an unfortunate by product.

I can see why our owner, manager and players want promotion.  And I'm sensitive to fans who can't make it to the Cottage and find it easier to follow us in the Premier League.  But a promotion-or-bust mentality isn't resonating with me.

Entertainment over ambition? It is a point of view. However we ARE in it to win it. That has to be what the aim is. Promotion and back to the very top. But I do take the point about entertainment. If one watches any sport and has no huge bias against one side or the other the whole event becomes enjoyable and less nervy to watch.

Fulham can frustrate but we do miss the positives when we fail to win then over do them when we do have three points. Burton came to do a job. They did it although on another day will not be allowed to get away with some of their tactics by a ref who does a better job.

[Carborundum]

Reading these comments, I've a confession to make.  I'm not sure I want us to get promoted this year.  Have to say I'm more interested in contemplating a team like Burton's characteristics than Chelsea's.

Thoroughly enjoyed last night.  The game had a clear and absorbing narrative.  Plenty of effort on display.  A twist at the end that wasn't quite the joyful ending we hoped for, but at least involved the bad guys getting some just desserts.  Signs that we have scope to improve.  The only bit I didn't like was the time wasting, which I view as providing less of the football I have paid to watch.  All in all two hours of escapist drama at the best ground in the country. 

Promotion means fewer games, stranger kick off times, more late schedule changes, higher prices.  What I actually want is to watch our team excel on the pitch, which means promotion looms as an unfortunate by product.

I can see why our owner, manager and players want promotion.  And I'm sensitive to fans who can't make it to the Cottage and find it easier to follow us in the Premier League.  But a promotion-or-bust mentality isn't resonating with me.

Entertainment over ambition? It is a point of view. However we ARE in it to win it. That has to be what the aim is. Promotion and back to the very top. But I do take the point about entertainment. If one watches any sport and has no huge bias against one side or the other the whole event becomes enjoyable and less nervy to watch.

Fulham can frustrate but we do miss the positives when we fail to win then over do them when we do have three points. Burton came to do a job. They did it although on another day will not be allowed to get away with some of their tactics by a ref who does a better job.

Fair points and highlight the paradox.  I don't turn up to the Cottage thinking "A defeat today will help ensure we don't get promoted". I want to see us win.  Entertainment comes in various forms and watching good defending appeals to me, so it's not about wanting free-flow attack and being cut to ribbons at the back.  I don't miss that part of last season at all.

[RaySmith]

But  it's a competitive , professional sport, and winning surely has to be the primary purpose.

Isn't that where we find the entertainment- in wanting our team to win and cheering them on. There is inherent drama in this - since  the outcome of every game is unpredictable, and this is what  compels people to  follow teams and  watch games - the outcome matters to them.

Otherwise we might as well watch exhibition games, without any rewards  for winning or league tables or relegation and promotion etc. I wonder how many would turn up to see these, unless top international stars  were parading their skills.

And, of course, winning games will lead  your team to rise up the league, and get promotion if they win enough.

[Lighthouse]

Yes I don't think it is suggested that winning isn't important. Just that entertainment is important too and doesn't have to just come from goals and attacking play. In cricket I find entertainment in the fielding as much if not more than the wicket taking. My heroes in football are generally defenders. Tennis is a sport I love but big serves are dull and not entertaining but win games.

So sometimes we are guilty of failing to enjoy the game if we fail to win missing out on the spectacle and the evil opponents trying to thwart us by sticking to a game plan that worked.

[Twig]

And it all started so we'll,then comes the doubters out of there boxes!!

I believe it's "their" not "there"
[/quote]

And no apostrophe in we'll sic.

[toshes mate]

Reading these comments, I've a confession to make.  I'm not sure I want us to get promoted this year.  Have to say I'm more interested in contemplating a team like Burton's characteristics than Chelsea's.

Thoroughly enjoyed last night.  The game had a clear and absorbing narrative.  Plenty of effort on display.  A twist at the end that wasn't quite the joyful ending we hoped for, but at least involved the bad guys getting some just desserts.  Signs that we have scope to improve.  The only bit I didn't like was the time wasting, which I view as providing less of the football I have paid to watch.  All in all two hours of escapist drama at the best ground in the country. 

Promotion means fewer games, stranger kick off times, more late schedule changes, higher prices.  What I actually want is to watch our team excel on the pitch, which means promotion looms as an unfortunate by product.

I can see why our owner, manager and players want promotion.  And I'm sensitive to fans who can't make it to the Cottage and find it easier to follow us in the Premier League.  But a promotion-or-bust mentality isn't resonating with me.

Entertainment over ambition? It is a point of view. However we ARE in it to win it. That has to be what the aim is. Promotion and back to the very top. But I do take the point about entertainment. If one watches any sport and has no huge bias against one side or the other the whole event becomes enjoyable and less nervy to watch.

Fulham can frustrate but we do miss the positives when we fail to win then over do them when we do have three points. Burton came to do a job. They did it although on another day will not be allowed to get away with some of their tactics by a ref who does a better job.

Over the years I have become less concerned about results and more concerned with how teams play, especially when watching Fulham.  At their best Fulham teams have not only entertained but have also been successful, but there are times when results become critical - Roy Hodgson taught us that like nobody else in our recent history.  But Roy also knew that when you have mastered the art of getting results more often than not you can then begin to develop flare and bring in that special something that drags in new spectators, fills grounds, and gets people talking about players fondly in the media.   I hope SJ is going to do the same and I hope he is going to achieve it all this season.   The team is developing and we have to have an element of patience this early in a new season.   I thought the Burton game was pretty good entertainment.  The match with Birmingham was largely diminished by the red card as many matches these days are.