All I keep reading, hearing tonight is excuse after excuse

[ToodlesMcToot]

Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition.

Well... it implies something about how good the player is... which in turn says something about the club's ambition.

I'll agree with you if you agree that it says just as much about Slav's ambition. He signed off on the player prior to him being approached.

[callumc513]

This is very harsh, Blackburn are a good side under Mowbray and fully deserved their point. We're still unbeaten in the league for quite some time and gained a point on our play-off rivals.

[ToodlesMcToot]

Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition.

Well... it implies something about how good the player is... which in turn says something about the club's ambition.

I'll agree with you if you agree that it says just as much about Slav's ambition. He signed off on the player prior to him being approached.

haha you're opening a whole can of worms there mate, i've ranted on here before about Slav "signing off" on a Hobson's choice... ok today i'll stick to moaning about last night's performance and leave transfers for another day

093.gif

well, the way that second half turned on us there's plenty to moan on about. I'll grant you that. Sure thought we had that game. And still think we should have. We have some tired legs in the team.

[Chutney]

Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition.

Well... it implies something about how good the player is... which in turn says something about the club's ambition.

I'll agree with you if you agree that it says just as much about Slav's ambition. He signed off on the player prior to him being approached.

Slav signed off on them coming in yes, because he needed players. Given they both came in late in the transfer window (cyriac especially) he could hardly not sign off on them, if he did he'd be left with nothing.  January was a poor window and arguing otherwise is nonsense. We clearly needed a CB, we needed a GK and we needed a top striker. We would be comfortably top 6 had we signed the needed quality in Jan, and that is what is most frustrating.

I just hope we can make it despite our failings in Jan, nothing would make me happier, I truly think the players and manager deserve a shot at the play offs after their efforts this season!

[MJG]

Maybe good to remember that we were looking at Petsos last summer but he went to another club. So i suspect Slav knew who he was already and as went for him last summer (when we signed 14 players anyway) he signed it off back then as well.

[Twig]

We didn't back Joca in January with the players needed to allow him to rotate the squad, particularly those middle three.

How's that? Slav said he wanted two or three players. He got two, one of which was a dmid to help out with that middle three.

This "The board don't back our manager in the transfer window" assertion is just false.

Agree.
Also don't know why people think we have a right to beat Blackburn. There is no such thing as an easy game in the championship especially a team that hasnt lost in 5..

the board self evidently did not provide enough players, joca wanted the board to show ambition and bring in more players and we got two loanees, one that has disappeared and the other joca is reluctant to use although he looks a good aquisition. Joca said on Radio London in December or mid jan... we need to show ambition, not I want a couple of players....  the two we got were miles short of ambition and then bizarelee we let decent replacement forwards leave. Both who are now scoring for their new clubs.

So the Radio London interview was the only one given regarding the transfer window? I don't believe so because I distinctly remember reading a quote, and seeing it talked about here more than a couple of times, from Slav stating he needed 2 or 3 players. The two we got were signed off on by Slav which means they fit the bill in his eyes or we would not have approached them. And, just because they are loanees doesn't mean that ambition wasn't applied in signing them. Just prudence. If for some reason they don't adapt to living in London or life with Fulham, then you've not wasted a full transfer fee. And, if they do adapt well and succeed, the club have run down their contract another 6 months and built a relationship which should help in completing a full transfer. Loans don't lack ambition.

As for the specific players, we desperately needed a full on striker and Cyriac (granted on limited minutes) looks to be the genuine article. Petsos, if I recall correctly has had some injury issues to deal with early on and will have required getting into shape. As I recall he was on the bench for at least the Blackburn match. Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition. That's Slav's decision alone.

Ambition is an ambiguous term. So, there's lots of room for interpretation. No point in trying to change opinions on it.

But saying we didn't back Slav is just false from my POV

Sorry Toodles but I am going to wade in and totally support jolsover on this one.  No criticism of the summer window but this winter Joka was not given the extra fire power he needed to push for promotion.  Effectively we added Cyriac but we let two strikers go (and whether Cyriac is an improvement is a moot point until we see him play a few 90 minute matches).  Nothing to strengthen the midfield where the risk of injuries causing disruption was always very high.  No extra cover for the youngsters playing key roles but who could be prone to fatigue.   

[Twig]

Everyone is entitled to their  opinion but how can it be logical to say we aren't good enough to beat a well-organised Blackburn side when we've demolished the likes of Huddersfield and even Newcastle.

This season it seams We generally beat the good teams and struggle against the crap teams.

So Sorry but my view is that technically we are "world beaters" and we are "good enough" to be in the top 4, but mentally we are weak, naive, immature... in short, bottlejobs.

Then I'm not sure what a bottlejob actually is.  We have scored lots of late goals that make a positive difference, including one last night.  There's plenty of fighting spirit, which seems a key part of what makes this team easy to get behind.  Basic defensive skills are lacking, not a lack of bottle.  If one wants to get inside the heads of our defenders, then what's probably lacking is the sheer destructive pleasure in messing attacks up.  The best defenders have it and show they have it.  It's why John Terry for all his playing limitations has achieved things John Stones looks unlikely to, despite having greater gifts.  My frustration is that Madl does have it and we don't pick him.

:plus one:

[RaySmith]

I don't know if Slav did mean that -you would think that  experienced players would be able to see a game out with minutes to go, though admittedly Leeds didn't manage it the week before, but they were beaten by a long-range wonder strike!

But I do think that our performance may have been related to fatigue, and Slav maybe didn't want to say that - puts the idea of being tired into players' minds, and  opposing teams minds', maybe.

[nose]

We didn't back Joca in January with the players needed to allow him to rotate the squad, particularly those middle three.

How's that? Slav said he wanted two or three players. He got two, one of which was a dmid to help out with that middle three.

This "The board don't back our manager in the transfer window" assertion is just false.

Agree.
Also don't know why people think we have a right to beat Blackburn. There is no such thing as an easy game in the championship especially a team that hasnt lost in 5..

the board self evidently did not provide enough players, joca wanted the board to show ambition and bring in more players and we got two loanees, one that has disappeared and the other joca is reluctant to use although he looks a good aquisition. Joca said on Radio London in December or mid jan... we need to show ambition, not I want a couple of players....  the two we got were miles short of ambition and then bizarelee we let decent replacement forwards leave. Both who are now scoring for their new clubs.

So the Radio London interview was the only one given regarding the transfer window? I don't believe so because I distinctly remember reading a quote, and seeing it talked about here more than a couple of times, from Slav stating he needed 2 or 3 players. The two we got were signed off on by Slav which means they fit the bill in his eyes or we would not have approached them. And, just because they are loanees doesn't mean that ambition wasn't applied in signing them. Just prudence. If for some reason they don't adapt to living in London or life with Fulham, then you've not wasted a full transfer fee. And, if they do adapt well and succeed, the club have run down their contract another 6 months and built a relationship which should help in completing a full transfer. Loans don't lack ambition.

As for the specific players, we desperately needed a full on striker and Cyriac (granted on limited minutes) looks to be the genuine article. Petsos, if I recall correctly has had some injury issues to deal with early on and will have required getting into shape. As I recall he was on the bench for at least the Blackburn match. Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition. That's Slav's decision alone.

Ambition is an ambiguous term. So, there's lots of room for interpretation. No point in trying to change opinions on it.

But saying we didn't back Slav is just false from my POV

I think we will have to agree to disagree, it is not the first time, it will not be the last I presume.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of who said what and which interviews you and I may have read or heard, IMO the last transfer window was not adequate if the club really had ambition. This reminds me so much of 1983 when clay failed to invest and look what happened.

But as a friend of mine always says, we are where we are and I do happen to think the manager is doing a very good job with the squad he has, i am genuinely less hung up than others about last Tuesday, we were never going to win every game and Blackburn were in fact very good on the night. I thought at 2 1 maybe that would knock the stuffing out of them but it just spurred them on.

I do expect a reaction on saturday and remain confident for that one.

[ToodlesMcToot]

We didn't back Joca in January with the players needed to allow him to rotate the squad, particularly those middle three.

How's that? Slav said he wanted two or three players. He got two, one of which was a dmid to help out with that middle three.

This "The board don't back our manager in the transfer window" assertion is just false.

Agree.
Also don't know why people think we have a right to beat Blackburn. There is no such thing as an easy game in the championship especially a team that hasnt lost in 5..

the board self evidently did not provide enough players, joca wanted the board to show ambition and bring in more players and we got two loanees, one that has disappeared and the other joca is reluctant to use although he looks a good aquisition. Joca said on Radio London in December or mid jan... we need to show ambition, not I want a couple of players....  the two we got were miles short of ambition and then bizarelee we let decent replacement forwards leave. Both who are now scoring for their new clubs.

So the Radio London interview was the only one given regarding the transfer window? I don't believe so because I distinctly remember reading a quote, and seeing it talked about here more than a couple of times, from Slav stating he needed 2 or 3 players. The two we got were signed off on by Slav which means they fit the bill in his eyes or we would not have approached them. And, just because they are loanees doesn't mean that ambition wasn't applied in signing them. Just prudence. If for some reason they don't adapt to living in London or life with Fulham, then you've not wasted a full transfer fee. And, if they do adapt well and succeed, the club have run down their contract another 6 months and built a relationship which should help in completing a full transfer. Loans don't lack ambition.

As for the specific players, we desperately needed a full on striker and Cyriac (granted on limited minutes) looks to be the genuine article. Petsos, if I recall correctly has had some injury issues to deal with early on and will have required getting into shape. As I recall he was on the bench for at least the Blackburn match. Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition. That's Slav's decision alone.

Ambition is an ambiguous term. So, there's lots of room for interpretation. No point in trying to change opinions on it.

But saying we didn't back Slav is just false from my POV

I think we will have to agree to disagree, it is not the first time, it will not be the last I presume.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of who said what and which interviews you and I may have read or heard, IMO the last transfer window was not adequate if the club really had ambition. This reminds me so much of 1983 when clay failed to invest and look what happened.

But as a friend of mine always says, we are where we are and I do happen to think the manager is doing a very good job with the squad he has, i am genuinely less hung up than others about last Tuesday, we were never going to win every game and Blackburn were in fact very good on the night. I thought at 2 1 maybe that would knock the stuffing out of them but it just spurred them on.

I do expect a reaction on saturday and remain confident for that one.

As I said in the "let's bash Ream thread", it's interesting and humorous to me that last season we looked for scapegoats for losses and now we look for them for draws. We are enjoying a helluva good run at the moment which I say, ignoring our results. I've not had the pleasure of loving Fulham for the length of time many of you have. If I had, this period of time would be all the more sweet. We are playing a brand of football far more enjoyable than I've ever seen from a Fulham team. I'll give the Europa team it's due for their results (man, what a time that was) but for entertaining football, Slav's team takes it. This bodes well no matter the league we end up competing in next season. For that reason, I've not been too hung up on that result either. Like you say, we were never going to win out. I do believe we let ourselves down a bit on both goals but, perhaps that kind of wakeup call will do us good for the run in.

I have not had the chance to watch the full 90 minutes. Do you feel that Blackburn just wanted it more? Or did we just lose our legs in the second half? Listening to GJ, Cyriac's goal seemed a bit of a surprise and not coming from any sustained pressure. The goals we conceded seemed to come from mental mistakes and building pressure, all of which led me to believe we were just tired or on a bit of a letdown from Saturday's high.

[nose]

We didn't back Joca in January with the players needed to allow him to rotate the squad, particularly those middle three.

How's that? Slav said he wanted two or three players. He got two, one of which was a dmid to help out with that middle three.

This "The board don't back our manager in the transfer window" assertion is just false.

Agree.
Also don't know why people think we have a right to beat Blackburn. There is no such thing as an easy game in the championship especially a team that hasnt lost in 5..

the board self evidently did not provide enough players, joca wanted the board to show ambition and bring in more players and we got two loanees, one that has disappeared and the other joca is reluctant to use although he looks a good aquisition. Joca said on Radio London in December or mid jan... we need to show ambition, not I want a couple of players....  the two we got were miles short of ambition and then bizarelee we let decent replacement forwards leave. Both who are now scoring for their new clubs.

So the Radio London interview was the only one given regarding the transfer window? I don't believe so because I distinctly remember reading a quote, and seeing it talked about here more than a couple of times, from Slav stating he needed 2 or 3 players. The two we got were signed off on by Slav which means they fit the bill in his eyes or we would not have approached them. And, just because they are loanees doesn't mean that ambition wasn't applied in signing them. Just prudence. If for some reason they don't adapt to living in London or life with Fulham, then you've not wasted a full transfer fee. And, if they do adapt well and succeed, the club have run down their contract another 6 months and built a relationship which should help in completing a full transfer. Loans don't lack ambition.

As for the specific players, we desperately needed a full on striker and Cyriac (granted on limited minutes) looks to be the genuine article. Petsos, if I recall correctly has had some injury issues to deal with early on and will have required getting into shape. As I recall he was on the bench for at least the Blackburn match. Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition. That's Slav's decision alone.

Ambition is an ambiguous term. So, there's lots of room for interpretation. No point in trying to change opinions on it.

But saying we didn't back Slav is just false from my POV

I think we will have to agree to disagree, it is not the first time, it will not be the last I presume.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of who said what and which interviews you and I may have read or heard, IMO the last transfer window was not adequate if the club really had ambition. This reminds me so much of 1983 when clay failed to invest and look what happened.

But as a friend of mine always says, we are where we are and I do happen to think the manager is doing a very good job with the squad he has, i am genuinely less hung up than others about last Tuesday, we were never going to win every game and Blackburn were in fact very good on the night. I thought at 2 1 maybe that would knock the stuffing out of them but it just spurred them on.

I do expect a reaction on saturday and remain confident for that one.

As I said in the "let's bash Ream thread", it's interesting and humorous to me that last season we looked for scapegoats for losses and now we look for them for draws. We are enjoying a helluva good run at the moment which I say, ignoring our results. I've not had the pleasure of loving Fulham for the length of time many of you have. If I had, this period of time would be all the more sweet. We are playing a brand of football far more enjoyable than I've ever seen from a Fulham team. I'll give the Europa team it's due for their results (man, what a time that was) but for entertaining football, Slav's team takes it. This bodes well no matter the league we end up competing in next season. For that reason, I've not been too hung up on that result either. Like you say, we were never going to win out. I do believe we let ourselves down a bit on both goals but, perhaps that kind of wakeup call will do us good for the run in.

I have not had the chance to watch the full 90 minutes. Do you feel that Blackburn just wanted it more? Or did we just lose our legs in the second half? Listening to GJ, Cyriac's goal seemed a bit of a surprise and not coming from any sustained pressure. The goals we conceded seemed to come from mental mistakes and building pressure, all of which led me to believe we were just tired or on a bit of a letdown from Saturday's high.

I agree with your first para and somewhere I have put that I rate the current team as one of the best i have seen for loving the football AND the work rate and togetherness. I really do love the team.

In the first half it was clear we were not at our best and blackburn played well, the goal was abit of a bonus. In the second half we never really got going and IMO it 'was one of those things' and the harder we tried the worse it got. For whatever reason cairney looked like he had never played football before. Some people say it was fatigue, I wasn't so sure, I just think it sometimes happens and often after the elation of a brilliant result like on the saturday.
It really got much worse after malone went off and martin came on. malone was the wrong one to go, sess made more sense as he struggled all night with his defensive duties.
with martin on we seemed to try and change the style a bit and be a bit more direct, either through instruction or panic. it didn't suit.

our goal was brilliant and the one bit of real quality in the second half, but against the run of play. the equaliser was deserved and virtually inevitable because blackburn went into overdrive and we collapsed. I do not think any individuals were at fault the whole team failed to deal with the situation from the frnt losing possesion, thru the midfield not closing down to the back four who were IMO least to blame but could have done better.

with parker injured we had no back up for the central midfieldand I suspect if he would have been available we would have hung on.

I agree this will hopefully be a good wake up call and so hope they really learn the lessons!

[ToodlesMcToot]

We didn't back Joca in January with the players needed to allow him to rotate the squad, particularly those middle three.

How's that? Slav said he wanted two or three players. He got two, one of which was a dmid to help out with that middle three.

This "The board don't back our manager in the transfer window" assertion is just false.

Agree.
Also don't know why people think we have a right to beat Blackburn. There is no such thing as an easy game in the championship especially a team that hasnt lost in 5..

the board self evidently did not provide enough players, joca wanted the board to show ambition and bring in more players and we got two loanees, one that has disappeared and the other joca is reluctant to use although he looks a good aquisition. Joca said on Radio London in December or mid jan... we need to show ambition, not I want a couple of players....  the two we got were miles short of ambition and then bizarelee we let decent replacement forwards leave. Both who are now scoring for their new clubs.

So the Radio London interview was the only one given regarding the transfer window? I don't believe so because I distinctly remember reading a quote, and seeing it talked about here more than a couple of times, from Slav stating he needed 2 or 3 players. The two we got were signed off on by Slav which means they fit the bill in his eyes or we would not have approached them. And, just because they are loanees doesn't mean that ambition wasn't applied in signing them. Just prudence. If for some reason they don't adapt to living in London or life with Fulham, then you've not wasted a full transfer fee. And, if they do adapt well and succeed, the club have run down their contract another 6 months and built a relationship which should help in completing a full transfer. Loans don't lack ambition.

As for the specific players, we desperately needed a full on striker and Cyriac (granted on limited minutes) looks to be the genuine article. Petsos, if I recall correctly has had some injury issues to deal with early on and will have required getting into shape. As I recall he was on the bench for at least the Blackburn match. Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition. That's Slav's decision alone.

Ambition is an ambiguous term. So, there's lots of room for interpretation. No point in trying to change opinions on it.

But saying we didn't back Slav is just false from my POV

Sorry Toodles but I am going to wade in and totally support jolsover on this one.  No criticism of the summer window but this winter Joka was not given the extra fire power he needed to push for promotion.  Effectively we added Cyriac but we let two strikers go (and whether Cyriac is an improvement is a moot point until we see him play a few 90 minute matches).  Nothing to strengthen the midfield where the risk of injuries causing disruption was always very high.  No extra cover for the youngsters playing key roles but who could be prone to fatigue.

I've tired of arguing this point as I don't believe either position is going to be able to convince the other which is entirely acceptable to me. I enjoy differing opinions. Of course your facts are correct, we added one while releasing two. But when one looks at it a bit more closely, didn't we really just add one striker? Cauley and Matt were only ever emergency options and we would only ever see one or the other. Combined in half a season, they put together less than 800 minutes and scored 2 goals. Cyriac has essentially replaced that situation but in a far more active role IMHO. It's difficult for me to see Slav stating a need for more than what he got though I will concede that it certainly looked like he (and everyone else) preferred Enrich but we saw how that played out. No point getting into how late in the window all this happened. We know nothing about that and assume too much....and the argument goes nowhere.

As MJG mentioned, we were after Petsos for some time. You say "nothing to strengthen the midfield" but, I'd wager Petsos and Slav would disagree. Difficult to predict the man getting injured when he came in. It was nice to see him on the bench Tuesday where I'd wager he was there for emergency only still b/c Parker wasn't available. That's only a guess though.

Otherwise, there's only one youngster getting playing time - Sess. And he'd only be rotating with Malone had Ayite not gotten injured. And, had he not proven to be so good going forward from LB it's doubtful he would have been 1st option cover for Floyd. I'm not sure why you'd want to go spending on backup for that when the situation hadn't yet arisen.

I still feel Slav was not failed by the club in January. We obviously didn't get what everyone wanted. And, like any manager, I'm sure that Slav would love to have had more or better. No way of knowing though.

[hovewhite]

We didn't back Joca in January with the players needed to allow him to rotate the squad, particularly those middle three.

How's that? Slav said he wanted two or three players. He got two, one of which was a dmid to help out with that middle three.

This "The board don't back our manager in the transfer window" assertion is just false.

Agree.
Also don't know why people think we have a right to beat Blackburn. There is no such thing as an easy game in the championship especially a team that hasnt lost in 5..

the board self evidently did not provide enough players, joca wanted the board to show ambition and bring in more players and we got two loanees, one that has disappeared and the other joca is reluctant to use although he looks a good aquisition. Joca said on Radio London in December or mid jan... we need to show ambition, not I want a couple of players....  the two we got were miles short of ambition and then bizarelee we let decent replacement forwards leave. Both who are now scoring for their new clubs.

So the Radio London interview was the only one given regarding the transfer window? I don't believe so because I distinctly remember reading a quote, and seeing it talked about here more than a couple of times, from Slav stating he needed 2 or 3 players. The two we got were signed off on by Slav which means they fit the bill in his eyes or we would not have approached them. And, just because they are loanees doesn't mean that ambition wasn't applied in signing them. Just prudence. If for some reason they don't adapt to living in London or life with Fulham, then you've not wasted a full transfer fee. And, if they do adapt well and succeed, the club have run down their contract another 6 months and built a relationship which should help in completing a full transfer. Loans don't lack ambition.

As for the specific players, we desperately needed a full on striker and Cyriac (granted on limited minutes) looks to be the genuine article. Petsos, if I recall correctly has had some injury issues to deal with early on and will have required getting into shape. As I recall he was on the bench for at least the Blackburn match. Now if Slav decides not to play him or bring him to matches, that says nothing about the club's ambition. That's Slav's decision alone.

Ambition is an ambiguous term. So, there's lots of room for interpretation. No point in trying to change opinions on it.

But saying we didn't back Slav is just false from my POV

I think we will have to agree to disagree, it is not the first time, it will not be the last I presume.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of who said what and which interviews you and I may have read or heard, IMO the last transfer window was not adequate if the club really had ambition. This reminds me so much of 1983 when clay failed to invest and look what happened.

But as a friend of mine always says, we are where we are and I do happen to think the manager is doing a very good job with the squad he has, i am genuinely less hung up than others about last Tuesday, we were never going to win every game and Blackburn were in fact very good on the night. I thought at 2 1 maybe that would knock the stuffing out of them but it just spurred them on.

I do expect a reaction on saturday and remain confident for that one.

I dont understand the rush to get back to the PL when player wise were not ready the spurs game laid it out in black and white.enjoy the football the entertainment,the unceartenty that makes it addictive,whilst at times for some of you frustrating!!!

[Fulham Tup North]

I must say, Tuesday night reminded me so much of Odense all over again!
A very late goal to make it 2-2 and our European dream was over.  But this time, our Play-Off dreams were NOT all over.  It just felt that way!
By Saturday I will be begging for another home WIN and safe in the knowledge that 3 points mean we are in the Top 6!!!!!
COYW