Safe Standing something for Fulham?

[Woolly Mammoth]

If you can't stand it, take it sitting down.

[dhowells21]

I would definitely like a safe standing section. H4/H5 maybe?

As far as I'm concerned its a win win. There is demand for it. It houses people closer together, would house the 'louder supporters' in a set section, would increase capacity, and might even get those dastardly "bobbers" away from the "true sitters" who have little/no interest in standing.

Bundesliga and Celtic have shown it works well. Obviously our supporters are different, and we won't have the demand of an entire stand, but reckon it'd do a good job of helping the atmosphere.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Most people prefer to sit

History says you are wrong.  Most theatre and concerts attended by the general public were standing, as, in contemporary times, we still see in places like the Globe, Glastonbury, or, more interestingly, the Proms.   Sitting was seen as 'delicate', 'polite' or 'courteous', as in status, privilege.   There are many places where people are observed to be standing and safe. 

The preference for sitting is not something I remember from my early days as a football supporter - early fifties on.  A family friend took me to several venues to watch football in London and every single one was standing as a young kid at the front barely tall enough to see over the hoardings.  My father, of strong middle class ancestry (his father owned a business in Fulham Broadway) always wanted to sit as if it marked him out as special.  He never did understand football.

I enjoyed standing and it helped to get me hooked on Fulham and throughout my life the only places I have sat down is where I cannot stand.  I still stand on tube trains and even overground if the journey time is not overlong.  I have always loved the freedom to move something a seat only offers in so much you can put your back into it or always be on the edge.  I have nothing against people sitting but I also have nothing against standing.  Surely there should be a choice.

The last time I went to a Theatre, it was an Operating Theatre to have the Snip.✂️.
I was the only person not standing. In fact I wasn't even sitting, I was lying down.
It took me a good 24 hours to stand up straight again.
I have never been the same bloke since.
Neither has my trunk.  🐘

Plus surely standing up in a designated standing area, has to be safer that standing up during a match in a designated seating area.

[epsomraver]

Most people prefer to sit
if there had never been standing people would sit
standing is a problem for smaller people and children and old people or people with a problem but not disabled
standing is inherently less safe. you can make smaller pens and add barriers but then what is the point of that.
So what we are talking about is making a section for essentially young fit males who are tallish or taller, who presumably cannot cope with remaining seated.
Of course you can create a brilliant atmosphere seated, the library issue tends to be as a result of high prices and the inability to purchase tickets on the day. Tourists, to use the unpleasant term, tend to be one reason for the poor atmosphere. Another is the way money and marketing have crept in and we are treated as a customer in a theme park rather than fans of a club, we do not need so much pre match and half time entertainment, turning down the tannoy would help! Also the new stadiums are plastic/anemic in nature when we played Juve and Hamburg the cottage was electric and that was seated, it is a function of the ground and ocasion.

The fact is, many young fans as you call them, but not only young fans, stand today in seated areas.   Look at away fans, they often stand the whole game, old young, male or female.  Have an area where if you want to stand you can and the rest for those that like to sit.  Many issues arise today where some want to stand and some want to sit.

I noticed at reading that at the start everyone was standing. as soon as anyone at the front sat, the whole section behind did likewise. It is a few standing that ensure the majority have to stand. Generally if you ask people to sit, they are very condescending.  When the stands are mopre sparsely populated i note people that want to stand go to the side or back, (equivalent to a safe standing area) but the vast majority do not, they sit.

Don'know  which match at reading you are referring to? At  the playoff away leg, the Fulham fans enmasse stood the whole game, don't I know it I have a buggered knee and could only sit at the interval,it was the  same as at the final in Hamberg, all the Fulham fans stood, more dangerous to stand in a seated area than a proper standing area, the Germans have done it safely and successfully, why do we put up so many barriers? Also Nose the enclosure was always standing with seats further back so why there would be a safety issue now baffles me

[Woolly Mammoth]

At my age I prefer to sit, I have done my standing. I can understand those who want to stand though.



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bog ......

What if Ben E King had asked you to 'Stand By Me'.
Or the Four Tops had asked you join them 'Standing in the Shadows of Love'.
Or Cold Play had said be 'Careful where you stand'.
Or the Police had said to you ' Can't stand losing you '.
Or Tina Turner had said ' Can't Stand the rain'.

[Woolly Mammoth]

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I would definitely like a safe standing section. H4/H5 maybe?

As far as I'm concerned its a win win. There is demand for it. It houses people closer together, would house the 'louder supporters' in a set section, would increase capacity, and might even get those dastardly "bobbers" away from the "true sitters" who have little/no interest in standing.

Bundesliga and Celtic have shown it works well. Obviously our supporters are different, and we won't have the demand of an entire stand, but reckon it'd do a good job of helping the atmosphere.

0001.jpeg

[jarv]

This is just another plan by the premier suits to squeeze more people in, therefore get more money. The last time I stood was v. Newcastle when Shearer missed a penalty, VDS saved it. I was at the Putney end and frankly did not enjoy the experience very much. (I could not get a ticket in a seat).

If it has t be done, take out some of the top rows and stand at the back. I am only 5'6" and don't want to spend the whole match stretching my neck to see.

Having said that, when it rains you only get head and shoulders wet. That is a nice benefit. Didn't work so well when only a few thousand showed up. Loads of safe standing in those days.

[dhowells21]

This is just another plan by the premier suits to squeeze more people in, therefore get more money. The last time I stood was v. Newcastle when Shearer missed a penalty, VDS saved it. I was at the Putney end and frankly did not enjoy the experience very much. (I could not get a ticket in a seat).

If it has t be done, take out some of the top rows and stand at the back. I am only 5'6" and don't want to spend the whole match stretching my neck to see.

Having said that, when it rains you only get head and shoulders wet. That is a nice benefit. Didn't work so well when only a few thousand showed up. Loads of safe standing in those days.

Surely the point is it's sections are safe standing, not all of it. For a family club to have everywhere safe standing would be business suicide.

Also, as far as I know, the Premier League/Football League don't take any % of gate receipts right? So definitely not in their advantage. If they really want more $$$, then they want more people to stay at home and get a Sky subscription, not try and give what a large % of fans actually want.

[nose]

Most people prefer to sit
if there had never been standing people would sit
standing is a problem for smaller people and children and old people or people with a problem but not disabled
standing is inherently less safe. you can make smaller pens and add barriers but then what is the point of that.
So what we are talking about is making a section for essentially young fit males who are tallish or taller, who presumably cannot cope with remaining seated.
Of course you can create a brilliant atmosphere seated, the library issue tends to be as a result of high prices and the inability to purchase tickets on the day. Tourists, to use the unpleasant term, tend to be one reason for the poor atmosphere. Another is the way money and marketing have crept in and we are treated as a customer in a theme park rather than fans of a club, we do not need so much pre match and half time entertainment, turning down the tannoy would help! Also the new stadiums are plastic/anemic in nature when we played Juve and Hamburg the cottage was electric and that was seated, it is a function of the ground and ocasion.

The fact is, many young fans as you call them, but not only young fans, stand today in seated areas.   Look at away fans, they often stand the whole game, old young, male or female.  Have an area where if you want to stand you can and the rest for those that like to sit.  Many issues arise today where some want to stand and some want to sit.

I noticed at reading that at the start everyone was standing. as soon as anyone at the front sat, the whole section behind did likewise. It is a few standing that ensure the majority have to stand. Generally if you ask people to sit, they are very condescending.  When the stands are mopre sparsely populated i note people that want to stand go to the side or back, (equivalent to a safe standing area) but the vast majority do not, they sit.

Don'know  which match at reading you are referring to? At  the playoff away leg, the Fulham fans enmasse stood the whole game, don't I know it I have a buggered knee and could only sit at the interval,it was the  same as at the final in Hamberg, all the Fulham fans stood, more dangerous to stand in a seated area than a proper standing area, the Germans have done it safely and successfully, why do we put up so many barriers? Also Nose the enclosure was always standing with seats further back so why there would be a safety issue now baffles me

well there was masses of standing but in the second half I can assure you I sat and everyone in front of me was sitting. when i say in front, the sort of in front that allowed me to see the whole pitch.  This was the same reading game to which you  refer. and also in hamburg whilst it is true the majority may have stood, including friends of mine who included an elederly and also 'bad kneed' person, where I was we all sat. so not actually everybody at all.

and this all goes to prove that if the people in the front sit then mostly those behind do too!

Yopu not seeing it proves that people standing cannot see everything, standing restricts site lines.

The enclosure is certainly not a typical area, and just removing the seats, I believe will not qualify it as a safe standing place. If I have understood how safe standing works with pens and barriers they would cause a major obstruction if we had to evacuate forward from the seats. Strangely if the enclosure just had the seats removed  rather than small pens (I hope that makes sense) then it would probably be better than we have now.

What I do know is given the choice most people prefer to sit.

[G_Gribby]

The biggest horror security is if/when Fulham score. From now I do recommend that we sit down celebrating. The club has already started up the security work - not scoring - during penalty kicks.

A signing choir always sit down to optimize the performance. We are here on the right track.. or?

Fact is that Fulham is only singing away, on our feets, standing up.

[Mince n Tatties]

Its proving a success in Germany, and Celtic have it for 3,500.

[ffc2004]

Shrewsbury have become the first English club to apply for safe standing

[FulhamStu]

This is getting a bit daft.  Safe standing for the few that want it.  Seating for the majority, kids, olduns and short arses is not being disputed.

[HillingdonFFC]

I think its definitely going to happen in the future. I actually find sitting at football a completely unnatural experience. I appreciate a lot of people prefer to sit for various reasons but it would be great to have a choice & areas where those who want to stand aren't spoiling it for others who dont.
You only have to see how the atmospheres in England have suffered compared to Germany where nearly every club has large safe standing areas, you can even take beer on them too but thats probably a step too far for us. Over there its a far better football experience & a reminder of what we had here before football became completely sanitised.
You break away people stand, you have a corner people stand, you have a goalmouth scramble people stand. 24,000 people stood for the last 20 mins of the Hamburg Semi final & when people say fans prefer to sit thats completely untrue. Every survey conducted on the matter shows theres a massive clamour to have safe standing introduced

[Twig]

I prefer to sit but my experience is spoiled by those who insist on standing every time the ball crosses the halfway line.  I respect those who prefer to stand so a designated standing area would serve two purposes.  Stewards could then get tough on those who stand in seated areas and just ensure safety compliance in the standing areas.  Brilliant.

[dhowells21]

Arsenal Supporters Trust did a nice detailed survey on this issue actually:
https://www.arsenaltrust.org/resources/documents/1493027114ast_safe_standing_survey_results.pdf

Overall findings however:
• More than 96% of fans are in favour of safe standing at the football grounds.
• Over three quarters (76%) of Arsenal fans surveyed said that they would want to utilise
safe standing if it was available.
• 85% of fans who said they would not use safe standing themselves were still in favour of
there being safe standing areas in the ground.
• Just over 2.5% of fans objected to any form of safe safe standing.

It then breaks down peoples preference by age group (interesting), and then sexuality & race (very bizzare)

[westcliff white]

Shrewsbury have become the first English club to apply for safe standing

The rules for League 1 and 2 are different to the championshjip and the prem. In league one and two they are ot bound y rules to have all seater stadiums as I understand it, a majority do have all seater stadia though.

For Shrewsburt having built a purpose built all seater stadium it is a huge expense, but being funded by fans etc which is fantastic, will cost them 50/75k for something like 600 safe standing seats, not sure how manyy seats they are taking out to accomodate this though.

[westcliff white]

I think its definitely going to happen in the future. I actually find sitting at football a completely unnatural experience. I appreciate a lot of people prefer to sit for various reasons but it would be great to have a choice & areas where those who want to stand aren't spoiling it for others who dont.
You only have to see how the atmospheres in England have suffered compared to Germany where nearly every club has large safe standing areas, you can even take beer on them too but thats probably a step too far for us. Over there its a far better football experience & a reminder of what we had here before football became completely sanitised.
You break away people stand, you have a corner people stand, you have a goalmouth scramble people stand. 24,000 people stood for the last 20 mins of the Hamburg Semi final & when people say fans prefer to sit thats completely untrue. Every survey conducted on the matter shows theres a massive clamour to have safe standing introduced

I agree, perosnally i prefer to sit down, fele it is safer for my son when I take him, that is compared to the old days on the terraces which were prone to surges etc, but having fgot used ot it I much prefer sitting down. But it is a personal choice and can see why people would want to stand.

If it is like for like as in one safe standing person for one sitting person, then I guess clubs will charge the same as the cost of a seat, if you bet 3 people for 2 seats then they may reduce the cost for those wishing to stand, I mention this as if there is no financial upside then clubs may not wish to change. Why would they if they are not going to make money and as we all know these days it is money that makes football talk.

[Southdowns White]

I can't really understand what all the fuss is about, Safe standing should be available at every ground for those that want it. I stood at every game i attended for years, adds to the atmosphere inside the ground and maybe help the team out on a week to week basis.
We could have the top 15 -20 rows right across the top of the Hammersmith end standing, why would anyone object as long as all those who want to sit in the ground get a seat? I know some of you on here are young and have never experienced the atmosphere created in the days before seating, today's crowds are very sanitised in comparison.
I think some people think standing is all bad and associate everything that was wrong with football with standing. After several terrible events at football stadia quite rightly football had a complete overhaul, but I do feel that in certain areas some of the changes made (not safety related) have now changed football from a working class game to a middle class game. Gone are the days of turning up with your friends, meeting up with other friends and watching the game. I sit near other family and friends, it has taken a few years to get us in the same few rows,but the people who can't commit to a season ticket find themselves sitting in other parts of the ground only able to meet at the half time scrum behind the stands. The thing that still amazes me is how difficult it can still be to get a half time pint and a pie and even get to the toilets. The club must be missing out on lost income, most people I know can't be bothered to even try and leave the stand until the end of the game.

[westcliff white]

I can't really understand what all the fuss is about, Safe standing should be available at every ground for those that want it. I stood at every game i attended for years, adds to the atmosphere inside the ground and maybe help the team out on a week to week basis.
We could have the top 15 -20 rows right across the top of the Hammersmith end standing, why would anyone object as long as all those who want to sit in the ground get a seat? I know some of you on here are young and have never experienced the atmosphere created in the days before seating, today's crowds are very sanitised in comparison.
I think some people think standing is all bad and associate everything that was wrong with football with standing. After several terrible events at football stadia quite rightly football had a complete overhaul, but I do feel that in certain areas some of the changes made (not safety related) have now changed football from a working class game to a middle class game. Gone are the days of turning up with your friends, meeting up with other friends and watching the game. I sit near other family and friends, it has taken a few years to get us in the same few rows,but the people who can't commit to a season ticket find themselves sitting in other parts of the ground only able to meet at the half time scrum behind the stands. The thing that still amazes me is how difficult it can still be to get a half time pint and a pie and even get to the toilets. The club must be missing out on lost income, most people I know can't be bothered to even try and leave the stand until the end of the game.

i think it was always a working man and a middcle class mans game personally. Agree top of hammy could be safe stanidng, also need some in the away end i would guess.

Costs would probably stay the same ticket wise if one for one with a seat as clubs get used toa  certain amount of income and any less would affect the dreaded......

It isnt for me but as I said can see why people would want too, if it is wanted by enough then clubs should look into it if it is financially viable