Fonte and Norwood weak links - part 2 ...

[davew]

So peed off ........instead of a lofty 5th sunk to dissapointingly flat 11th but worst still my expectations really tailed off today with the black cloud of a mid table finish much more of a possibility now.
That scenario also brings to the boil what goes with it......

Depressed and weather is too bad to make it to the pub.

We have a mid-table squad, did very well to finish in the play offs last season but its unfair to expect the same again this.

Why is it?? We did over achieve last year even using the services of an on loan striker who didn't want to play for us! We should have moved forward in the transfer window, but the Club did not, it wasn't down to FFP restrictions it was purely down to either (or both) lack of vision or ambition. The blame starts and stops at the top, SK has no idea on how to make our club successful, just my opinion!!

[Chutney]

So peed off ........instead of a lofty 5th sunk to dissapointingly flat 11th but worst still my expectations really tailed off today with the black cloud of a mid table finish much more of a possibility now.
That scenario also brings to the boil what goes with it......

Depressed and weather is too bad to make it to the pub.

We have a mid-table squad, did very well to finish in the play offs last season but its unfair to expect the same again this.

Why is it?? We did over achieve last year even using the services of an on loan striker who didn't want to play for us! We should have moved forward in the transfer window, but the Club did not, it wasn't down to FFP restrictions it was purely down to either (or both) lack of vision or ambition. The blame starts and stops at the top, SK has no idea on how to make our club successful, just my opinion!!

My point is that its unfair to expect Jokanovic to get us in to the play offs again after a fairly rubbish transfer window (in terms of quality brought in, not financially, we actually made a slight profit this summer on transfer fees), he worked miracles last year with largely the same starting 11. We had a poor summer and the blame lies solely with the transfer guys, Tony Khan and co. Our only hope for this season is that Jokanovic can work his magic again, in spite of the transfer team seemingly being more interested in making a cheeky profit than improving our starting 11.

[Woolly Mammoth]

So peed off ........instead of a lofty 5th sunk to dissapointingly flat 11th but worst still my expectations really tailed off today with the black cloud of a mid table finish much more of a possibility now.
That scenario also brings to the boil what goes with it......

Depressed and weather is too bad to make it to the pub.

We have a mid-table squad, did very well to finish in the play offs last season but its unfair to expect the same again this.

Why is it?? We did over achieve last year even using the services of an on loan striker who didn't want to play for us! We should have moved forward in the transfer window, but the Club did not, it wasn't down to FFP restrictions it was purely down to either (or both) lack of vision or ambition. The blame starts and stops at the top, SK has no idea on how to make our club successful, just my opinion!!

My point is that its unfair to expect Jokanovic to get us in to the play offs again after a fairly rubbish transfer window (in terms of quality brought in, not financially, we actually made a slight profit this summer on transfer fees), he worked miracles last year with largely the same starting 11. We had a poor summer and the blame lies solely with the transfer guys, Tony Khan and co. Our only hope for this season is that Jokanovic can work his magic again, in spite of the transfer team seemingly being more interested in making a cheeky profit than improving our starting 11.

All posts good observations and spot on.

[JakeFFC]

I'm going to probably open myself up to a bit of abuse here but I disagree with the OP, well half disagree.

Norwood I don't believe is what we need. That's not saying hes not a good player, hes just not, in my opinion, a possession player or a playmaker. People like Kev McD and Cairney are able to shield the ball and hold on to it when the opposition gives us a high press, this then allows us a bit more time and space for passes across the pitch or a clever turn out of trouble and to carry on with possession. Norwood for me doesn't do this, he has no strength and so panics and flicks the ball. Most times we are dispossessed (in my opinion) have been from Norwood, I use Preston as an example, how many times did he give the ball away? However he isn't a permanent solution he is a stop gap until cairney is fit. If the club brought someone in to replace Cairney during the transfer window I would have assumed Cairney would be sold as we cant have 2 of that type of player in our formation.

Fonte on the other hand I do like. He makes a lot of clever runs and pulls defenders all over the place. I think we are too slow finding passes to him. When cairney came on against Preston he picked out a few of Fontes quick runs resulting in some good play. Too often I have noticed from where I am sitting we get a wide player bomb down the flank and put a ball in the box to only 1 player (whoever the striker playing at the time is). Initially I saw Fonte making the runs to the front post opening up that space and the ball would just cross the whole box because nobody else was in there. Now he stands more central hoping to get a toe in to flick it at goal. This isn't because he is lazy or not up to it (IMO) its actually from my point of view smart. He would rather have less of a chance by standing where the ball will do than have no chance running to the front post watching the ball trickle past where nobody is standing because we have 1 player in the box.

I say all this as just my opinion as a Fulham fan. Then again I was a big Matt Smith fan.....

[Woolly Mammoth]

I'm going to probably open myself up to a bit of abuse here but I disagree with the OP, well half disagree.

Norwood I don't believe is what we need. That's not saying hes not a good player, hes just not, in my opinion, a possession player or a playmaker. People like Kev McD and Cairney are able to shield the ball and hold on to it when the opposition gives us a high press, this then allows us a bit more time and space for passes across the pitch or a clever turn out of trouble and to carry on with possession. Norwood for me doesn't do this, he has no strength and so panics and flicks the ball. Most times we are dispossessed (in my opinion) have been from Norwood, I use Preston as an example, how many times did he give the ball away? However he isn't a permanent solution he is a stop gap until cairney is fit. If the club brought someone in to replace Cairney during the transfer window I would have assumed Cairney would be sold as we cant have 2 of that type of player in our formation.

Fonte on the other hand I do like. He makes a lot of clever runs and pulls defenders all over the place. I think we are too slow finding passes to him. When cairney came on against Preston he picked out a few of Fontes quick runs resulting in some good play. Too often I have noticed from where I am sitting we get a wide player bomb down the flank and put a ball in the box to only 1 player (whoever the striker playing at the time is). Initially I saw Fonte making the runs to the front post opening up that space and the ball would just cross the whole box because nobody else was in there. Now he stands more central hoping to get a toe in to flick it at goal. This isn't because he is lazy or not up to it (IMO) its actually from my point of view smart. He would rather have less of a chance by standing where the ball will do than have no chance running to the front post watching the ball trickle past where nobody is standing because we have 1 player in the box.

I say all this as just my opinion as a Fulham fan. Then again I was a big Matt Smith fan.....

So was I ⚽️

[Jims Dentist]

Our squad is in the 6 best in the league. Dont even try and tell me it is not.

Is this based on any empirical evidence, objective reasoning... or just a feeling in your water?

Name 6 squads that are better ... I've got Wolves and Boro as definites. Villa as a probably. Who else?

Wednesday? Leeds? I don't think so.

You don't think so, fair enough, that's your opinion, but go on their forums and see how many Wednesday fans would swap any one of Forestieri, Rhodes, Winnal, Fletcher, Hooper and Joao for Fonte

I will see at the end of the season. He has played about 4 games out of position in a foreign league.

Bit curious by out of position.
Is that when playing wider, in the 10 position or as a central striker?
We have spent big money getting him here, and whereas I don't fault his attitude, is he sturdy enough to play the central role that T Khan/Kline were supposedly trying to fill.
I very much think not, and if anyone suggests he was bought for any other role then why spend up to £8m on a position that we are more than adequately competent in?

[Mince n Tatties]

Fonte today was absolutely atrocious. Nothing to do with his position, just a painful lack of talent.

With Mollo, Djalo, Graham and Soares not even making the bench, our summer transfer business is looking utterly awful as the dust settles.

The only signing I can be positive about is Kamara... not because he's especially good but at least he puts the effort in and has some menace about him

Agree....Terrible, 8 million or so,they saw us coming from far off.👺

[Woolly Mammoth]

Have to agree, it's gone from bad to worse, you reap what you sow. Poor recruitment in the summer, followed by poor game management coupled with a soft underbelly and lack of physicality, has contributed to mediocre and flat performances. Always likely to concede and never knowing where the next goal is coming from. No orthodox striker, and centre of defence is timid. 

[Bill2]

I really have a problem with the level on criticism on this post. Just heading home after the game, we went behind to a sloppy defensive error. Other than that we dominated the game, however the problem is we lack a forward. Same as last year, the rest of the squad will walk into most of the other teams in this division.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I really have a problem with the level on criticism on this post. Just heading home after the game, we went behind to a sloppy defensive error. Other than that we dominated the game, however the problem is we lack a forward. Same as last year, the rest of the squad will walk into most of the other teams in this division.

We lack more than just a forward I am afraid. We concede scrappy goals far too often because we cannot keep a clean sheet due to a milky defence.
Added to the reality that we scrapped a last gasp equaliser against a team rock bottom of the division on our own Ground, and against opponents before they played us, couldn't buy a goal, and you think that's acceptable.

[filham]

Difficult not to put the blame for our weak attack on Fonte.
The word is that we paid £8/9m for him so we expected him to perform well in the Championship and to score a few goals. He has now played 8 games , scored a single goal and we are awaiting a really good performance.
So what has gone wrong, did Stats boy forget to include a Championship factor in his analysis of him, are we playing the wrong tactics for him , does he need more than eight games to bed in or is he simply just not good enough.

[Luka]

I'm sick of this soft underbelly tosh and that we lack physicality so that's why we are failing to progress.

The real problem is up front.
We just don't have ANYONE that scares the opposition.
We don't have ANYONE that will dominate an oppositions defence.
We don't have ANYONE competent in front of goal.

No one fears us and we are a one trick pony. We go side to side without incisive direct runs from a striker so no threat. Teams are happy to watch us do the dance then try their luck with a punt down the middle like today.

[Matt10]

It's not that we don't have ANYONE. It's that the system isn't built for ANYONE with decent scoring prowess. Seriously. How often do we cross the ball first time? How often do we send a long ball to a forward?

We get the ball on the flanks, pass around, allow their defense to regroup, not enough bodies in the box - no real decent sized players other than Kamara and K-Mac....so then what?

Stop complaining about our lack of personnel, and accept that the players fold to the system, not the other way around. Fonte is a goal scorer, but he's not in the position to do that. Kamara is a goal scorer, but he too is not in the position to do that.

Even the best strikers could not do it on their own if once the ball reaches an advanced position, the priority of possession takes over the priority of scoring a direct goal. Once we become more intentional to score goals, then we'll be on the right track. At the moment, we'd rather look pretty and pass the ball around, and pass it into the net. Not going to happen.

[Carborundum]

Every game Fonte gets muscled off the ball, acts as though he expects a foul and doesn't get it.  He's realising what Jozebed figured in ten minutes flat, which is that without the physicality, you just aren't at the races.  No other team in this league puts a lightweight on the pitch.

Norwood shouldn't start ahead of Johansen again.  Too conservative, no devilment.  Not my type of player at all.

[@jolslover]

Every game Fonte gets muscled off the ball, acts as though he expects a foul and doesn't get it.  He's realising what Jozebed figured in ten minutes flat, which is that without the physicality, you just aren't at the races.  No other team in this league puts a lightweight on the pitch.

Norwood shouldn't start ahead of Johansen again.  Too conservative, no devilment.  Not my type of player at all.

Are you joking mate. Wolves have a team of players weaker than Fonte.
Leeds start Alioski, Saiz and Pablo Hernandeze behind the striker.
I thought Norwood was decnet today.

[Carborundum]

Every game Fonte gets muscled off the ball, acts as though he expects a foul and doesn't get it.  He's realising what Jozebed figured in ten minutes flat, which is that without the physicality, you just aren't at the races.  No other team in this league puts a lightweight on the pitch.

Norwood shouldn't start ahead of Johansen again.  Too conservative, no devilment.  Not my type of player at all.

Are you joking mate. Wolves have a team of players weaker than Fonte.
Leeds start Alioski, Saiz and Pablo Hernandeze behind the striker.
I thought Norwood was decnet today.

Wolves bulldozered us in March.  Helder Costa, possibly the most skilful player in the Championship is certainly no lightweight.  We haven't seen those Leeds players at the Cottage yet - but  I'm not expecting them to be muscled off the ball.

[@jolslover]

Every game Fonte gets muscled off the ball, acts as though he expects a foul and doesn't get it.  He's realising what Jozebed figured in ten minutes flat, which is that without the physicality, you just aren't at the races.  No other team in this league puts a lightweight on the pitch.

Norwood shouldn't start ahead of Johansen again.  Too conservative, no devilment.  Not my type of player at all.

Are you joking mate. Wolves have a team of players weaker than Fonte.
Leeds start Alioski, Saiz and Pablo Hernandeze behind the striker.
I thought Norwood was decnet today.

Wolves bulldozered us in March.  Helder Costa, possibly the most skilful player in the Championship is certainly no lightweight.  We haven't seen those Leeds players at the Cottage yet - but  I'm not expecting them to be muscled off the ball.

You clearly didn't watch him when he first joined Wolves then, Didn't make an impact first couple of months as he was getting muscled off the ball.
Big Helder Fan though, Probably best player in champ.

[ffcne]

I'm sick of this soft underbelly tosh and that we lack physicality so that's why we are failing to progress.

The real problem is up front.
We just don't have ANYONE that scares the opposition.
We don't have ANYONE that will dominate an oppositions defence.
We don't have ANYONE competent in front of goal.

No one fears us and we are a one trick pony. We go side to side without incisive direct runs from a striker so no threat. Teams are happy to watch us do the dance then try their luck with a punt down the middle like today.

Spot on .Would Rui Fonte scare any opposition defender .No.

[@jolslover]

I'm sick of this soft underbelly tosh and that we lack physicality so that's why we are failing to progress.

The real problem is up front.
We just don't have ANYONE that scares the opposition.
We don't have ANYONE that will dominate an oppositions defence.
We don't have ANYONE competent in front of goal.

No one fears us and we are a one trick pony. We go side to side without incisive direct runs from a striker so no threat. Teams are happy to watch us do the dance then try their luck with a punt down the middle like today.

Spot on .Would Rui Fonte scare any opposition defender .No.

I am very scared of Kamara so the first statement is not true. He's an absolute unit and quick.
Would not want to get in a fight with him

[Woolly Mammoth]

Kamara has a lot to offer, and should be persevered with. He is a different kind of forward that will batter defences and has the pace and upper body strength to be a constant handful. But apart from Kevin Mc and a 2 or 3 others, the rest are pussy cats.