Recruitment policy at Fulham

[Twig]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

[toshes mate]

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that these two factors may be linked or do you perhaps see 'lack of net spending' being something that has been around longer than 'Stats boy'?

I'd really like to know how the whole recruitment gig works as much as you seem to want to question SJ about his motives and moves.  If the recruitment system works to interfere with, limit, infringe or stifle SJ's ability to coach then who's fault is that given that the Club, according to its owner, will stop at nothing to get promotion?  'Nothing' in this case doesn't seem to include net spending on recruitment and retention.  Would you agree?

[Marcel_Gecov]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

Well not quite a third of a season but your point also points out that if fit, Soares will play circa 30 games this season (ie, same as Malone last year). Plenty of time to make an impact, plus the fact that we can buy him if needs be.

[Chutney]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

Well not quite a third of a season but your point also points out that if fit, Soares will play circa 30 games this season (ie, same as Malone last year). Plenty of time to make an impact, plus the fact that we can buy him if needs be.

Slav wanted the summer business done early to give players the chance to bed in. Slav wanted to keep Aluko. Why have the transfers team instead signed players on deadline day, especially injured players and then sold Aluko? I have no problem with the stats system, I do however have a problem with them ignoring the managers requests, especially when he is more experienced within the world of football than both Khan and his stats mate. Tony Khan needs to be replaced as the person in charge of recruitment by a person with experience within the game, and maybe then we can start to see the best of the current stats system. Or, at the very least he needs to be told that his job isn't to think independently, its to do as the manager says, if the manager wants players signed early, signed them early, and if the manager wants to keep a player, don't sell that player.

[MJG]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

Well not quite a third of a season but your point also points out that if fit, Soares will play circa 30 games this season (ie, same as Malone last year). Plenty of time to make an impact, plus the fact that we can buy him if needs be.

Slav wanted the summer business done early to give players the chance to bed in. Slav wanted to keep Aluko. Why have the transfers team instead signed players on deadline day, especially injured players and then sold Aluko? I have no problem with the stats system, I do however have a problem with them ignoring the managers requests, especially when he is more experienced within the world of football than both Khan and his stats mate. Tony Khan needs to be replaced as the person in charge of recruitment by a person with experience within the game, and maybe then we can start to see the best of the current stats system. Or, at the very least he needs to be told that his job isn't to think independently, its to do as the manager says, if the manager wants players signed early, signed them early, and if the manager wants to keep a player, don't sell that player.

Talbot is his assistant so he has someone with experience next to him.
Also I'm sure every manager coach wants business done early. Why them do 70% of all transfers happen in last four weeks. If everyone wants things early then surely they would all do that.

[Marcel_Gecov]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

Well not quite a third of a season but your point also points out that if fit, Soares will play circa 30 games this season (ie, same as Malone last year). Plenty of time to make an impact, plus the fact that we can buy him if needs be.

Slav wanted the summer business done early to give players the chance to bed in. Slav wanted to keep Aluko. Why have the transfers team instead signed players on deadline day, especially injured players and then sold Aluko? I have no problem with the stats system, I do however have a problem with them ignoring the managers requests, especially when he is more experienced within the world of football than both Khan and his stats mate. Tony Khan needs to be replaced as the person in charge of recruitment by a person with experience within the game, and maybe then we can start to see the best of the current stats system. Or, at the very least he needs to be told that his job isn't to think independently, its to do as the manager says, if the manager wants players signed early, signed them early, and if the manager wants to keep a player, don't sell that player.

Well, that's completely wrong. So in your view Khan should be a lapdog, "yes sir, no sir, three bags fall sir", and just do everything Joka says. Khan is Joka's boss, and pays his wages, he doesn't have to do a thing Joka says. The system is in place so that when Joka leaves we don't have to ship out a bunch of the managers players and can move forward with continuity. For too long, managers have gone into teams, torn up the plan, pushed out decent players (ref: Koeman at Everton with Niasse) and then get fired and the process is repeated like a fatboy Slim song.

Slav may want business done early, but in most cases it doesn't happen as we exist in a marketplace which unfortunately really gets started with a chain reaction. Slav wanted to keep Aluko, Reading offered c.8m for a 29 year old with historical injury problems who doesn't score enough, quite rightly he was sold. Experience within the game leads to the same mistakes (Redknapp, jobs for the boys, Pardew, etc) to be innovative is to something different.

[Chutney]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

Well not quite a third of a season but your point also points out that if fit, Soares will play circa 30 games this season (ie, same as Malone last year). Plenty of time to make an impact, plus the fact that we can buy him if needs be.

Slav wanted the summer business done early to give players the chance to bed in. Slav wanted to keep Aluko. Why have the transfers team instead signed players on deadline day, especially injured players and then sold Aluko? I have no problem with the stats system, I do however have a problem with them ignoring the managers requests, especially when he is more experienced within the world of football than both Khan and his stats mate. Tony Khan needs to be replaced as the person in charge of recruitment by a person with experience within the game, and maybe then we can start to see the best of the current stats system. Or, at the very least he needs to be told that his job isn't to think independently, its to do as the manager says, if the manager wants players signed early, signed them early, and if the manager wants to keep a player, don't sell that player.

Well, that's completely wrong. So in your view Khan should be a lapdog, "yes sir, no sir, three bags fall sir", and just do everything Joka says. Khan is Joka's boss, and pays his wages, he doesn't have to do a thing Joka says. The system is in place so that when Joka leaves we don't have to ship out a bunch of the managers players and can move forward with continuity. For too long, managers have gone into teams, torn up the plan, pushed out decent players (ref: Koeman at Everton with Niasse) and then get fired and the process is repeated like a fatboy Slim song.

Slav may want business done early, but in most cases it doesn't happen as we exist in a marketplace which unfortunately really gets started with a chain reaction. Slav wanted to keep Aluko, Reading offered c.8m for a 29 year old with historical injury problems who doesn't score enough, quite rightly he was sold. Experience within the game leads to the same mistakes (Redknapp, jobs for the boys, Pardew, etc) to be innovative is to something different.

If this is the case then how can the manager be held responsible when we fail to perform? Unless they're the one calling the shots they cannot be blamed, surely?

I'm not saying Khan should be a "yes sir no sir" type but he should be humble and realise that Slav is way more experienced than him and the best manager we have had for years, to ignore his requests is just ridiculous and arrogant. Should we do this then maybe Jokanovic won't leave and that's the best form of continuity possible.

[toshes mate]

Having an experienced assistant means nothing if you are not using that experience appropriately and sounds more like a get out of jail card when things go awry as in ' well my assistant said...'.  It also needs to be pointed out that we sold players without having replacements lined up already which is actually appallingly short sighted regardless of what some people on these threads say about the 'difficulties of recruiting'.   SJ has the job of making sense out of the nonsense of buying players who are not fit for purpose, and the nonsense of having to plug gaps when key players are sold without suitable replacements being purchased beforehand.   And its a bit rich talking about 'jobs for the boys' in Khan's company.....     

[toshes mate]

If this is the case then how can the manager be held responsible when we fail to perform? Unless they're the one calling the shots they cannot be blamed, surely?

I'm not saying Khan should be a "yes sir no sir" type but he should be humble and realise that Slav is way more experienced than him and the best manager we have had for years, to ignore his requests is just ridiculous and arrogant. Should we do this then maybe Jokanovic won't leave and that's the best form of continuity possible.

Well said, Chutney.

[Marcel_Gecov]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also; Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

Well not quite a third of a season but your point also points out that if fit, Soares will play circa 30 games this season (ie, same as Malone last year). Plenty of time to make an impact, plus the fact that we can buy him if needs be.

Slav wanted the summer business done early to give players the chance to bed in. Slav wanted to keep Aluko. Why have the transfers team instead signed players on deadline day, especially injured players and then sold Aluko? I have no problem with the stats system, I do however have a problem with them ignoring the managers requests, especially when he is more experienced within the world of football than both Khan and his stats mate. Tony Khan needs to be replaced as the person in charge of recruitment by a person with experience within the game, and maybe then we can start to see the best of the current stats system. Or, at the very least he needs to be told that his job isn't to think independently, its to do as the manager says, if the manager wants players signed early, signed them early, and if the manager wants to keep a player, don't sell that player.

Well, that's completely wrong. So in your view Khan should be a lapdog, "yes sir, no sir, three bags fall sir", and just do everything Joka says. Khan is Joka's boss, and pays his wages, he doesn't have to do a thing Joka says. The system is in place so that when Joka leaves we don't have to ship out a bunch of the managers players and can move forward with continuity. For too long, managers have gone into teams, torn up the plan, pushed out decent players (ref: Koeman at Everton with Niasse) and then get fired and the process is repeated like a fatboy Slim song.

Slav may want business done early, but in most cases it doesn't happen as we exist in a marketplace which unfortunately really gets started with a chain reaction. Slav wanted to keep Aluko, Reading offered c.8m for a 29 year old with historical injury problems who doesn't score enough, quite rightly he was sold. Experience within the game leads to the same mistakes (Redknapp, jobs for the boys, Pardew, etc) to be innovative is to something different.

If this is the case then how can the manager be held responsible when we fail to perform? Unless they're the one calling the shots they cannot be blamed, surely?

I'm not saying Khan should be a "yes sir no sir" type but he should be humble and realise that Slav is way more experienced than him and the best manager we have had for years, to ignore his requests is just ridiculous and arrogant. Should we do this then maybe Jokanovic won't leave and that's the best form of continuity possible.

We discussed this at length over the summer and we really need to stop thinking about Joka as a traditional manager and view him by his official job title which is 'Head Coach'. He is accountable for his remit which is coaching the team to be ready for Saturday and game management. We can debate whether Khan is doing a good job, we can also debate whether Joka is doing a good job with the players he is given but we certainly should not conflate the two arguments.

The fact that you've said that we could do what Joka wants and 'maybe' he wont leave is exactly why this process is in place.

"I'm not saying Khan should be a "yes sir no sir" type"
"at the very least he needs to be told that his job isn't to think independently, its to do as the manager says"

These two statements hugely contradict. Which one do you want? Bear in mind this is 2017 and not 1997 and minus Mourinho and Wenger no manager has 100% control of transfers. Even League winner Conte:(https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4174875/antonio-conte-hits-out-at-chelseas-lack-of-signings-and-the-sale-of-nemanja-matic-to-title-rivals-manchester-united/)

[Denver Fulham]

It's kind of silly to have this conversation (repeatedly) when the team was built around Cairney, who hasn't been healthy all season. It impacts everything, including the upside of Johansen, who hasn't been the same player this season, either. When everyone says "We have the same team as last season," that's crazy. Our best player, who we built an entire system around, hasn't played a fully healthy minute yet -- and may not.

So how can you fully evaluate players we brought in? I highly doubt the stats team (or Slav) was vetting how Fonte would look playing heavy minutes in front of Oliver Norwood. Our whole team was built around our midfield three, and only McDonald has performed to expectations so far this campaign, and he's the least impactful of the three when everyone is healthy.

We're not a massive club. If someone offers you dumb money for Scott Malone or Sone Aluko, you take it. The club also held on to both Cairney and Sessegnon, which no one seems to factor into the summer spending equation.

Anyway, I'm as disappointed with the first 13 matches as anyone, but slagging the summer seems unfair at this point. If you want to talk about a summer signing that hasn't panned out as well as expected, though, what about Kalas?

[Marcel_Gecov]

It's kind of silly to have this conversation (repeatedly) when the team was built around Cairney, who hasn't been healthy all season. It impacts everything, including the upside of Johansen, who hasn't been the same player this season, either. When everyone says "We have the same team as last season," that's crazy. Our best player, who we built an entire system around, hasn't played a fully healthy minute yet -- and may not.

So how can you fully evaluate players we brought in? I highly doubt the stats team (or Slav) was vetting how Fonte would look playing heavy minutes in front of Oliver Norwood. Our whole team was built around our midfield three, and only McDonald has performed to expectations so far this campaign, and he's the least impactful of the three when everyone is healthy.

We're not a massive club. If someone offers you dumb money for Scott Malone or Sone Aluko, you take it. The club also held on to both Cairney and Sessegnon, which no one seems to factor into the summer spending equation.

Anyway, I'm as disappointed with the first 13 matches as anyone, but slagging the summer seems unfair at this point. If you want to talk about a summer signing that hasn't panned out as well as expected, though, what about Kalas?

I dont disagree with one word here. Good post.

[Keynsham]

It's like Groundhog Day here. We cover the use of stats/Khan/Manager or coach etc.

Every.
Single.
Time.
We lose.

:dead horse:

[MJG]

It's like Groundhog Day here. We cover the use of stats/Khan/Manager or coach etc.

Every.
Single.
Time.
We lose.

:dead horse:

win it's down to Joka when we lose its down to the Khan's.
When really is a combination of all

[Marcel_Gecov]

It's like Groundhog Day here. We cover the use of stats/Khan/Manager or coach etc.

Every.
Single.
Time.
We lose.

:dead horse:

win it's down to Joka when we lose its down to the Khan's.
When really is a combination of all

Personally I think we should hug the Khans very closely, we could so easily be QPR

[@jolslover]

It's like Groundhog Day here. We cover the use of stats/Khan/Manager or coach etc.

Every.
Single.
Time.
We lose.

:dead horse:

win it's down to Joka when we lose its down to the Khan's.
When really is a combination of all

Personally I think we should hug the Khans very closely, we could so easily be QPR

Real. Big fan of them.

[Whitesideup]

There are players who are good in the air,  athletic and physically tough, but also skilful, and good passers- you find often them in Prem teams, at Prem prices.

If we are bullied in games by more physical teams, is this to do with our small,  lightweight players, or more to do with our system, and how we are set out, and the way we train?

True you  need physically bigger players for more use of  the high ball, and ones who can compete for headers, but  they also probably are pretty skilful, as well as athletic and fast, and very fit, to play in his division.

I don't think we have been beaten by lack of brawn alone. Is it more the direct, pressing from the front, long passing, hard running style that means some teams seem to overwhelm us at times?
But, at our best, our style is good at combating this approach.

As said, Joka isn't adverse to a big man up front - he  really seemed to rate Martin. Perhaps it's more to do with the players available to him. You can only work with what you've got, though he obviously does favour a passing, play out from the back style, but I don't think he's adverse to having some, or even a lot of, players with combative qualities, as long as they can play too.

I agree with nearly all of this apart from the fact that Chris Martin isn't really a big man .. well built, strong but not tall by the standards of front men in the Championship.

[Marcel_Gecov]

Personally I think we should hug the Khans very closely, we could so easily be QPR

On a scale of where we were when they took over (12th in the premiership) to QPR (3 pts below us) we are overwhelmingly closer to QPR

a

When I see their issues with FFP and a potential 60m fine which could bankrupt them plus the talk of relegation to the 5th tier I feel that's viewing things too simplistically. Would anybody swap Khan for Fernandes and simply shrug and feel we aren't worse off? Anyone who says yes is talking nonsense.

[FulhamStu]

We paid decent money for 2 strikers, both these strikers looks to have potential to be decent but jury still out I guess,other than that we spent very little, that was the problem.
A lot of loan signings which financially is probably good but not really what you want. We have not yet seen Rafa, Ojo was clearly seen as first choice before his injury as is Kalas.  Norwood proving good backup in MF and Mollo looks decent for nothing. Cisse a dissapointment so far, but cost relatively little, Graham not yet seen.  Djalo a bit of a strange one but I suspect seen as low risk and one for the future and Piazon a good squad player now injured. So our recruitment is for me ok, we just did not compete with the likes of Wolves who have gone for it and now seeing the benefit. 

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Cannot agree with your assessment of our most expensive acquisition of the summer, from what I have seen of Fonte he will flatter to deceive - unlikely to contribute enough goals or assists.

Also;d Ojo had been less than consistent before his injury, Cisse downright poor, Djalo a waste of time, Soares still not fit to play with a third of the season gone. For me a poor summer window except that on a net basis we turn ed a modest profit.

How can you say that when I clearly state my view is the jury is still out ?

[FulhamStu]

Again, I repeat, I do not think the fault lies with Stats boy as much as our lack of net spending. 

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that these two factors may be linked or do you perhaps see 'lack of net spending' being something that has been around longer than 'Stats boy'?

I'd really like to know how the whole recruitment gig works as much as you seem to want to question SJ about his motives and moves.  If the recruitment system works to interfere with, limit, infringe or stifle SJ's ability to coach then who's fault is that given that the Club, according to its owner, will stop at nothing to get promotion?  'Nothing' in this case doesn't seem to include net spending on recruitment and retention.  Would you agree?

I  have never in this thread said I question SJ motives for moves, what I have said is I think he is involved in the process and given reasons why I think this is that case.

People need to stop repeating Khans comment I will stop at nothing, or, how I remember it, I will do what ever it takes, because he said, at the same time, this strategy was in tandem with his repeated comments about sustainability.  Also, like any other owner or person in power they say stuff like this to appease the likes of us.   We need to get over it.   

What ever it takes, was the most stupid thing Khan has ever said and he will rightly continue to burn for it, but I take it for what it was... RUBBISH.