The Slav Conundrum

[Jimsbeerbelly]

Without turning this thread into an anti Slav or Kahn debate, I want to touch on the conundrum we currently face, with both owner and coach.

It's clear as day to me, that both are not singing off the same hymn sheet, and that both have different views, ideas, on what players we require for this Team.

Yes, at the end of the day, Slav is an employee of the Club, he follows orders, however, being an experienced coach, surely his input on players counts for something, otherwise, whats the point?

If Slav is going to be handed players, that he knows nothing about, or at least has any input with, how the hell are they going to fit his style?

Yes, I understand that some players can join and eventually come good, but, the most frustrating thing is, the coach wants tried and tested players, to make a difference now, when the owners want to persist on statistical purchases.

To be honest, I don't care who they are, as long as they fire Fulham to promotion, but, the longer we try the put square pegs in round holes, the longer promotion is going to take, if at all.

On the other hand, I also agree that Slav shouldn't air his dirty washing in public, its not professional, and is a very bad image for FFC, and players wanting to join.

What I see, is an ambitious coach who wants to get us promoted, and, he is right in saying that squad isn't good enough - even a blind man can see that.

On the other hand, we have an owner, who feels that his approach to Championship greatness, and buying players, is completely different to the way other Clubs do it, and will stick by his guns, regardless.

We have, unfortunately, two very stubborn parties here, that are eventually going to cancel each other out, and end in tears.

I'm hoping, and crossing all my fingers, that the board delivers Slav a decent bunch of players the Jan, and that Slav accepts them, so we can all bloody get on with pushing for promotion, together.

[HV71]

I rend to agree with everything you have posted . I would just add one thing though- one interpretation of Slavs so called rant could be ...... I will get sacked if I don't get promoted ( top six finish ) but unless we strengthen in this window we will not achieve that - so you may as well sack me now. Toys out the pram  a bit  but nothing if not a pragmatic approach. The Khans have undoubtedly invested ( though there approach has been more like a statistical beat the bank gamble in Las Vegas ) . If we are to invest - as most on here see as what we need , surely we should give the only football pro ( the coach ) his head rather then holding a rabbits foot whilst spinning the wheel !

[Jimsbeerbelly]

I rend to agree with everything you have posted . I would just add one thing though- one interpretation of Slavs so called rant could be ...... I will get sacked if I don't get promoted ( top six finish ) but unless we strengthen in this window we will not achieve that - so you may as well sack me now. Toys out the pram  a bit  but nothing if not a pragmatic approach. The Khans have undoubtedly invested ( though there approach has been more like a statistical beat the bank gamble in Las Vegas ) . If we are to invest - as most on here see as what we need , surely we should give the only football pro ( the coach ) his head rather then holding a rabbits foot whilst spinning the wheel !

That team isn't good enough for promotion, regardless if the owners think other wise, and if they do think it is, then they shouldn't be in the game, full stop.

Yes, I agree, it's not a bad squad, but, it's not exceptional either, and when you look back at the Bournemouth promotion side under Eddie Howe, they players who could finish, and fire them to promotion - we don't.

As a coach, its must be so frustrating, knowing, that you're short of 3-4 key players, then you're handed the likes of Fonte' and Kamara.

Even I'd lose my rag.   

[Woolly Mammoth]

I rend to agree with everything you have posted . I would just add one thing though- one interpretation of Slavs so called rant could be ...... I will get sacked if I don't get promoted ( top six finish ) but unless we strengthen in this window we will not achieve that - so you may as well sack me now. Toys out the pram  a bit  but nothing if not a pragmatic approach. The Khans have undoubtedly invested ( though there approach has been more like a statistical beat the bank gamble in Las Vegas ) . If we are to invest - as most on here see as what we need , surely we should give the only football pro ( the coach ) his head rather then holding a rabbits foot whilst spinning the wheel !

That team isn't good enough for promotion, regardless if the owners think other wise, and if they do think it is, then they shouldn't be in the game, full stop.

Yes, I agree, it's not a bad squad, but, it's not exceptional either, and when you look back at the Bournemouth promotion side under Eddie Howe, they players who could finish, and fire them to promotion - we don't.

As a coach, its must be so frustrating, knowing, that you're short of 3-4 key players, then you're handed the likes of Fonte' and Kamara.

Even I'd lose my rag.   

I also sympathise with Jok, unless he gets the players he needs this month, not only will we fail to make the play offs, but Jok will not want to stay.
Because Jok has players he did not choose to sign, therefore he does not play them that often, I get the feeling that it's effecting team spirit. I don't blame Jok, this has been orchestrated by the Khans giving the Stats duds too much say in recruitment, so Jok feels aggrieved, and some players whether they are good enough or not, may feel they are not given a fair chance.
Either way it's not helping to cement a togetherness, and all because of the way the beaurocrats at the club operate.

[Lighthouse]

We have been without a decent forward for a few seasons. For the life of me I don't understand why we brought in a talented player like Fonte who clearly IS talented but simply doesn't fit our style of play and was not the type of forward we needed. There seems to be a lack of communication between coaching staff and management.

On saying all that I think our Coach is looking a bit stale and running out of ideas what to do. One only has to look at his choice of starting a  forward who plays more like a number 10 anyway on his own up front. It is very frustrating to all concerned. After last season we needed just a little help in transfers but went backwards. Our Coach has always felt it necessary to air his complaints about the transfer window. Less a conundrum more a lack of communication. 

[Matt10]

What do you guys think about our current player's thoughts with all this transfer talk? Do you think they really care? Don't you think that they are actually more motivated not to lose their spots this time of the year?

I tend to think so.

I think Slav knows this as well. Which is why I said don't blow things out of proportion. I think Slav feels confident in his side and feels confident that we will make a promotion push.

Fulham style of football is unheard of in this league, and even in the premier league. I'm still surprised that there are those who doubt how strong we are.

It's not an easy way to play for just anyone. This is evident by those who sound like great signings, but can't make it into a match. This is what everyone focuses on. They focus on the potential of players on paper, versus what we actually do on the pitch.

I think Slav has built an incredible system, and it is going to require someone of absolute significance, and someone that can fit in this very specific system - to make a difference, and replace one of the current players.

Those are my thoughts. I don't want to make predictions and I don't want to gossip like we're basketball wives or whatever reality TV show creates useless drama.

[Woolly Mammoth]

What do you guys think about our current player's thoughts with all this transfer talk? Do you think they really care? Don't you think that they are actually more motivated not to lose their spots this time of the year?

I tend to think so.

I think Slav knows this as well. Which is why I said don't blow things out of proportion. I think Slav feels confident in his side and feels confident that we will make a promotion push.

Fulham style of football is unheard of in this league, and even in the premier league. I'm still surprised that there are those who doubt how strong we are.

It's not an easy way to play for just anyone. This is evident by those who sound like great signings, but can't make it into a match. This is what everyone focuses on. They focus on the potential of players on paper, versus what we actually do on the pitch.

I think Slav has built an incredible system, and it is going to require someone of absolute significance, and someone that can fit in this very specific system - to make a difference, and replace one of the current players.

Those are my thoughts. I don't want to make predictions and I don't want to gossip like we're basketball wives or whatever reality TV show creates useless drama.

If what you say is true about Joks system of play, and I see where you are coming from.
In fact I understand the logic and agree to a certain extent.
Then why do the club not allow Jok to choose the players he wants and feels will fit into his system. He should know better than they do.
Whereupon he will get the best out of them.
Because Jok should be making these decisions and not the stats or recruitment dudes.

[Matt10]

What do you guys think about our current player's thoughts with all this transfer talk? Do you think they really care? Don't you think that they are actually more motivated not to lose their spots this time of the year?

I tend to think so.

I think Slav knows this as well. Which is why I said don't blow things out of proportion. I think Slav feels confident in his side and feels confident that we will make a promotion push.

Fulham style of football is unheard of in this league, and even in the premier league. I'm still surprised that there are those who doubt how strong we are.

It's not an easy way to play for just anyone. This is evident by those who sound like great signings, but can't make it into a match. This is what everyone focuses on. They focus on the potential of players on paper, versus what we actually do on the pitch.

I think Slav has built an incredible system, and it is going to require someone of absolute significance, and someone that can fit in this very specific system - to make a difference, and replace one of the current players.

Those are my thoughts. I don't want to make predictions and I don't want to gossip like we're basketball wives or whatever reality TV show creates useless drama.

If what you say is true about Joks system of play, and I am not disagreeing with you at all, in fact I understand the logic and agree to a certain extent.
Then why do the club not allow Jok to choose the players he wants and feels will fit into his system. He should know better than they do.
Whereupon he will get the best out of them.
Because Jok should be making these decisions and not the stats or recruitment dudes.

Because that's the mark of a great manager. He can apply his own system to a set of players that may not have been conditioned to play this way before. I think we're starting to see just how automatic they are able to play to his style. Notice the ones who struggled today are the ones who didn't play last year. Norwood, Fonte, Ojo. They are starting to get it though, with the exception of Fonte. Fonte needs to get it through his thick skull that being an over-generous teammate is getting him sacked from seeing the pitch more often.

I do agree that Slav should make the decisions, and there's no proof that he's not...because literally no decisions have been made or confirmed.

[Woolly Mammoth]

What do you guys think about our current player's thoughts with all this transfer talk? Do you think they really care? Don't you think that they are actually more motivated not to lose their spots this time of the year?

I tend to think so.

I think Slav knows this as well. Which is why I said don't blow things out of proportion. I think Slav feels confident in his side and feels confident that we will make a promotion push.

Fulham style of football is unheard of in this league, and even in the premier league. I'm still surprised that there are those who doubt how strong we are.

It's not an easy way to play for just anyone. This is evident by those who sound like great signings, but can't make it into a match. This is what everyone focuses on. They focus on the potential of players on paper, versus what we actually do on the pitch.

I think Slav has built an incredible system, and it is going to require someone of absolute significance, and someone that can fit in this very specific system - to make a difference, and replace one of the current players.

Those are my thoughts. I don't want to make predictions and I don't want to gossip like we're basketball wives or whatever reality TV show creates useless drama.

If what you say is true about Joks system of play, and I am not disagreeing with you at all, in fact I understand the logic and agree to a certain extent.
Then why do the club not allow Jok to choose the players he wants and feels will fit into his system. He should know better than they do.
Whereupon he will get the best out of them.
Because Jok should be making these decisions and not the stats or recruitment dudes.

Because that's the mark of a great manager. He can apply his own system to a set of players that may not have been conditioned to play this way before. I think we're starting to see just how automatic they are able to play to his style. Notice the ones who struggled today are the ones who didn't play last year. Norwood, Fonte, Ojo. They are starting to get it though, with the exception of Fonte. Fonte needs to get it through his thick skull that being an over-generous teammate is getting him sacked from seeing the pitch more often.

I do agree that Slav should make the decisions, and there's no proof that he's not...because literally no decisions have been made or confirmed.

Interesting, and I agree with your observations. There is still enough time to make his system and players function enough to make a genuine attempt to finish in the top six.
But he still needs more tools to assist and back his philosophy. This January window has to be paramount then in supplying Jok with his needs to complete the Jigsaw.

[Matt10]

What do you guys think about our current player's thoughts with all this transfer talk? Do you think they really care? Don't you think that they are actually more motivated not to lose their spots this time of the year?

I tend to think so.

I think Slav knows this as well. Which is why I said don't blow things out of proportion. I think Slav feels confident in his side and feels confident that we will make a promotion push.

Fulham style of football is unheard of in this league, and even in the premier league. I'm still surprised that there are those who doubt how strong we are.

It's not an easy way to play for just anyone. This is evident by those who sound like great signings, but can't make it into a match. This is what everyone focuses on. They focus on the potential of players on paper, versus what we actually do on the pitch.

I think Slav has built an incredible system, and it is going to require someone of absolute significance, and someone that can fit in this very specific system - to make a difference, and replace one of the current players.

Those are my thoughts. I don't want to make predictions and I don't want to gossip like we're basketball wives or whatever reality TV show creates useless drama.

If what you say is true about Joks system of play, and I am not disagreeing with you at all, in fact I understand the logic and agree to a certain extent.
Then why do the club not allow Jok to choose the players he wants and feels will fit into his system. He should know better than they do.
Whereupon he will get the best out of them.
Because Jok should be making these decisions and not the stats or recruitment dudes.

Because that's the mark of a great manager. He can apply his own system to a set of players that may not have been conditioned to play this way before. I think we're starting to see just how automatic they are able to play to his style. Notice the ones who struggled today are the ones who didn't play last year. Norwood, Fonte, Ojo. They are starting to get it though, with the exception of Fonte. Fonte needs to get it through his thick skull that being an over-generous teammate is getting him sacked from seeing the pitch more often.

I do agree that Slav should make the decisions, and there's no proof that he's not...because literally no decisions have been made or confirmed.

Interesting, and I agree with your observations. There is still enough time to make his system and players function enough to make a genuine attempt to finish in the top six.
But he still needs more tools to assist and back his philosophy. This January window has to be paramount then in supplying Jok with his needs to complete the Jigsaw.

Agreed. The irony is our best chance creators and shooters are our midfielders in Johansen and Cairney. These boys don't hit the target as often as they should. Scale down from there, now it's Ojo, who gets shots but hasn't scored in a while. He's young and that's great for the long run, but then what?

This is where I think many forget that it's not a striker that's the problem, Kamara is bagging them in like they're going out of style, it's the fact that our two midfielders in Johansen and Cairney aren't scoring goals like they did last year. That's the missing formula, with a slight adjustment to our RW position. I think Piazon should replace Ojo, but only if Johansen and Cairney are paired up. If not, it's got to be Johansen and Piazon with Ojo, or Kebano,  on the RW.

Our striker area is just depth. We just need depth if Kamara is injured or he has an ineffective match for some reason. Until Fonte starts being selfish, he's not going to make a bit of direct difference.

[RaySmith]

I think is our manager is frustrated, and this is understandable. A bit of money spent on the right players, could make all the difference to our promotion prospects, and I'm sure promotion is his aim. He is probably impatient, not seeing himself as being here  for years building a promotion ready  squad - he wants to do it as quickly as possible, I would think, despite what he  once said about wishing he could stay at Fulham for life- or something like that anyway.

Whilst our owner is  working to  ideas of  'sustainability' with plans for a new stand, which will utilise Craven Cottage as a resource, and also inhibited by FFP, which most of us don't really understand. We're unsure as to how  much our owner wants promotion - though he took over a Prem side, and this is where the  money is, as well as status and publicity, and Kit was sacked for not making a promotion target- so we presume it must be very important to him.

But it could be argued that it's good he doesn't want to spend silly money on trying to  go up, realistic. But Slav seems frustrated, and  us fans are frustrated, as the Prem seems to get further and further away, with our  relegation payments ending soon. Also the owner has spent money on the squad, but not always on the  right players for Fulham.

[alfie]

I rend to agree with everything you have posted . I would just add one thing though- one interpretation of Slavs so called rant could be ...... I will get sacked if I don't get promoted ( top six finish ) but unless we strengthen in this window we will not achieve that - so you may as well sack me now. Toys out the pram  a bit  but nothing if not a pragmatic approach. The Khans have undoubtedly invested ( though there approach has been more like a statistical beat the bank gamble in Las Vegas ) . If we are to invest - as most on here see as what we need , surely we should give the only football pro ( the coach ) his head rather then holding a rabbits foot whilst spinning the wheel !

That team isn't good enough for promotion, regardless if the owners think other wise, and if they do think it is, then they shouldn't be in the game, full stop.

Yes, I agree, it's not a bad squad, but, it's not exceptional either, and when you look back at the Bournemouth promotion side under Eddie Howe, they players who could finish, and fire them to promotion - we don't.

As a coach, its must be so frustrating, knowing, that you're short of 3-4 key players, then you're handed the likes of Fonte' and Kamara.

Even I'd lose my rag.   

I also sympathise with Jok, unless he gets the players he needs this month, not only will we fail to make the play offs, but Jok will not want to stay.
Because Jok has players he did not choose to sign, therefore he does not play them that often, I get the feeling that it's effecting team spirit. I don't blame Jok, this has been orchestrated by the Khans giving the Stats duds too much say in recruitment, so Jok feels aggrieved, and some players whether they are good enough or not, may feel they are not given a fair chance.
Either way it's not helping to cement a togetherness, and all because of the way the beaurocrats at the club operate.

Why this keeps getting dragged out every time we fail to perform gets on my nerves. HE signed his contract knowing full well how they wanted the transfers to work, if he didn't like it then don't sign it. Like any normal person if you go for a job and you don't like what you see,you don't take the job.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

What do you guys think about our current player's thoughts with all this transfer talk? Do you think they really care? Don't you think that they are actually more motivated not to lose their spots this time of the year?

I tend to think so.

Agree

A lot of people on here have expressed concern about the impact of Slav's comments on the players' morale but I don't see it.

The players presumably have certain personal short-term objectives, essentially play well this year, get promoted, then get a better contract or move to a bigger club. Beyond that, their longer-term career objectives probably don't involve Fulham at all.

They've no reason to care about the club's own long-term issues, such as the ground redevelopment, financial sustainability, and recruitment and senior management models.

Their point of contact with the club is Jokanovic and they're probably happy to see him fighting for short-term boosts like a few new signings, which support their personal short-term objectives.

Although a core of about 6 or 7 players may be happy to see the manager pushing for new signings. I can't believe the rest will. It will mean even less playing time or a continuation of not even making the match day squad. Players want to play. That's the only way they'll meet their objectives.
The way the system of purchasing has been laid out and discussed on here numerous times was that the manager was part of a three way process in identifying players and positions. I don't think he's totally without blame here.

[toshes mate]

For two seasons we have had the spectacle of wonderful football stirring from beneath the muddied waters of a mix of players, some local talent, some journeymen, some whose promise has just been realised, and some who are yet to really flourish.  That is what football is really about unless you are following a club where money and the promises of success are virtually unlimited and so failure has no right to show its face - ever. 

Is there really such a sideshow contest of Khan v. Jokanovic? Is there really is such a pitched battle for ownership of whatever the problem is going on?  The game of 'how you achieve wonderful football' may not best fit the desire for the instant gratification of promotion but at least it means we are looking up rather than down.   The same battle we have here is being fought everywhere there is a football club even those with loads of money but only a few of them can hold the top spots and therefore claim, often temporarily, to have got things right.  There is no 'one correct way' although those who get to number one on the last day of the season may claim there is.  Success lasts an instant and then it back to the grindstone.   As long as Khan and Jokanovic are sparring there is hope that we will see promotion.  It's healthy and shows neither are satisfied.

The day the words stop and the players stop is the day we should fear the most.

[EN1 FFC]

It's a case of two stubborn parties wanting two different paths for the club to progress. The recruitment in the summer has turned out to be a disaster in the eyes of the coach as shown below players brought in haven't been given game time because it would seem the Coach deems them not good enough.
The conclusion is that the Coach wants to be more than a coach and is sabotaging the recruitment department by not being willing to integrate the players into his system so that he can become more of a Manager than Coach.   

If you look at our club's players as set out in the website squad.

We have 8 defenders but only 5 are regularly used, Madl, Soares & Djarlo are very rarely used by the coach.

In midfield we have 8 players again only 5 are regularly used, Mollo, Graham & Cisse are rarely used by the coach.

According to the clubs website squad we have 5 Forwards, Ojo, Piazon & Ayite would really be classed as attacking midfield the way the coach plays. Only Kamara & Fonte are really our only Centre Forwards and some would even class them as No.10's .
The coach has supplemented the bench with a few young players, to the detriment of the players brought in, but again not really given the youngsters a run in the team.

At present the Coaches tactics have become reliant on our attacking midfield scoring, but as has been pointed out Cairney & Johansen haven't hit the goal scoring form of last season. This problem could be due to having no real Centre-Forward to put pressure onto the opponents Center-Backs. (Sessegnon is more likely to score when played in a more forward position, but the coach believes differently).