Peter Beardsley: Racism & bullying accusations against Newcastle U23s coach

[Slaphead in Qatar]

I'd could equally choose to say onlookers and spectators take great pleasure in doubting and bullying the accusers. 

The point I am making is that our systems of dealing with such matters need to be, by their very nature, much more sensitive and rapid in response. 

That is your view Tosh. My personal view is that 30 years ago you may have been right, but now the pendulum has swung too far and our systems need to be a bit *less* sensitive to victims and accusers. I do not expect to change your mind on this, I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree, but what I do think you must accept is that a massive component of the population (perhaps even a majority) currently share my view.

Your last sentence demonstrates extreme arrogance statto - or are you being ironic again?

[Slaphead in Qatar]

I think it's great that victims are now increasingly speaking out - the sections of society who historically have held power have been abusing their power for too long. When they are challenged they cry political correctness, trial by media blah blah blah

[Slaphead in Qatar]

I'd could equally choose to say onlookers and spectators take great pleasure in doubting and bullying the accusers. 

The point I am making is that our systems of dealing with such matters need to be, by their very nature, much more sensitive and rapid in response. 

That is your view Tosh. My personal view is that 30 years ago you may have been right, but now the pendulum has swung too far and our systems need to be a bit *less* sensitive to victims and accusers. I do not expect to change your mind on this, I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree, but what I do think you must accept is that a massive component of the population (perhaps even a majority) currently share my view.

So all the women in Hollywood accusing men of inappropriate behaviour - do you think the system needs to be less sensitive to them?

[Mince n Tatties]

I think it's great that victims are now increasingly speaking out - the sections of society who historically have held power have been abusing their power for too long. When they are challenged they cry political correctness, trial by media blah blah blah

What you state is correct,but the problem is too much publicly is given to these situations before anyone is actually found guilty.
We have had 4 cases of rape charges thrown out against young men in the last 6 weeks because of false evidence and lies made up by so called victims.
One of the young men attempted suicide on 3 occasions, his life ruined because he was in the public eye all the time before he was brought to court.

[RaySmith]

I think there should be anonymity for the accused in such cases otherwise it will forever be thought that there's no smoke without fire.

I know the police now waive anonymity in the cases of famous people, because it might encourage  more victims to come forward, and this has certainly happened in most recent high profile cases, which might make  one question the motives of some who come forward after so many years, though they may just be glad of the chance to  see the perpetuators of crimes against them  brought to justice, when before they felt no- one would believe them.

But this public display of the accused  makes me feel very uncomfortable- they may actually be innocent!

Secondly, though, it's good that bullying and abuse is being dealt with - things that when was  young in the 50's and 60's, like being abused by teachers and authority figures, were almost considered  routine, and just hushed up, often leaving victims damaged psychologically for life. And racism and sexist discrimination were the norm.

But there is an air of sanctimony and witch hunting today, on all sides,  about everything -  no grey areas, which I don't like. Generally, though have to say that it's good that  abuse, racism and bullying are being   spoken of publically, and  seen as  not  acceptable.

[toshes mate]

I think it's great that victims are now increasingly speaking out - the sections of society who historically have held power have been abusing their power for too long. When they are challenged they cry political correctness, trial by media blah blah blah

I absolutely agree we need people to feel able and willing to come forward with their complaints but what is disturbing in all the publicity we read is that these people, some of whom are quite powerful personalities, did not feel confident in finding justice or even a fair hearing of their legitimate complaints.  In fact they all believed their careers, their esteem and integrity would spiral downwards and so it was best to keep quiet and that keeping quiet meant nothing untoward ever happened.   And don't start me on the Catholic Church.....

[Twig]

The term PC Brigade has come up twice in this thread as has the term political correctness. In most cases it is intended in a perjorative sense.  It set me wondering, is political correctness so very wrong? What is the opposite and would we prefer it?

[toshes mate]

The term PC Brigade has come up twice in this thread as has the term political correctness. In most cases it is intended in a perjorative sense.  It set me wondering, is political correctness so very wrong? What is the opposite and would we prefer it?

The term actually describes the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.  That was the target aimed at.  I don't find the target objectionable, I just believe it was big on words but not so big on positive action and believe it has left behind all manner of resentment whilst achieving modest improvements in some areas.  I actually believe there is a lot of ignorance around and I do not absolve myself from that at all, but I do try to be better.

[JHaynes Paperboy]

I have no interest in finding out exactly what he's been accused of.
I have no interest in finding out whether he actually did it.
He should just be hanged for this thing, whatever it was, whether or not he actually done it. 

When you suffer racism I am sure you'll be interested.

Pot and Kettle spring to mind with this post, from the man who was banned from this forum for Homophobic remarks! Hipocrit.

[toshes mate]

No, no irony this time. Do you disagree with the last sentence, or just think it irrelevant? I'm not sure why you'd think it extremely arrogant. 

I just thought you were being full of yourself as per usual.

As to your other point about Michael Fallon, he resigned and there the matters end.  He was not a victim.  But perhaps I ask too much of you to understand why he isn't a victim.