Peter Beardsley: Racism & bullying accusations against Newcastle U23s coach

[sunburywhite]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42602409

Its a wonder anyone can understand him

[Twig]

He has previous.  Very sad.

[Holders]

Surprised and sorry to hear this.

[bog]

Extremely surprised to read of this and very saddened.

[Fulham76]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42602409

Its a wonder anyone can understand him

Take away his footballing ability & background & what have you got?? Just another pretty boy with a bad attitude.

[cmg]

Take away his footballing ability & background & what have you got?? Just another pretty boy with a bad attitude.

As pretty as a pitcher?

[aaronmcguigan]

sad? Sorry? Saddened?
Bullying and racism has no place in any workplace, no matter what pressures are present. Surely a coach is responsible for creating an environment where people want to develop, want to flourish and although it's an allegation, it's an allegation from 5 players.

[HatterDon]

Take away his footballing ability & background & what have you got?? Just another pretty boy with a bad attitude.

As pretty as a pitcher?

don't go getting all Randy on us!

[Slaphead in Qatar]

I have no interest in finding out exactly what he's been accused of.
I have no interest in finding out whether he actually did it.
He should just be hanged for this thing, whatever it was, whether or not he actually done it. 

When you suffer racism I am sure you'll be interested.

[Slaphead in Qatar]

I am also surprised by this.

When Andy Cole started banging in the goals for Newcastle I remember Peter coming out with comments about Newcastle being a bit of a racist place and that Andys goals may help bring people together a bit more.

[toshes mate]

sad? Sorry? Saddened?
Bullying and racism has no place in any workplace, no matter what pressures are present. Surely a coach is responsible for creating an environment where people want to develop, want to flourish and although it's an allegation, it's an allegation from 5 players.

Thanks for the honesty and pragmatism.
The racism issues tend to speak for themselves. Bullying is often subtle, hard to avoid, and hard to prove.  I was involved in dealing with a 'bullying scandal' about ten years ago and it really isn't something anybody should have to face.  Victims seldom see justice done.

[Marcel_Gecov]

I have no interest in finding out exactly what he's been accused of.
I have no interest in finding out whether he actually did it.
He should just be hanged for this thing, whatever it was, whether or not he actually done it. 

When you suffer racism I am sure you'll be interested.

Without taking this conversation a different way, surely you are innocent until proven guilty. It seems that's forgotten now and now the slightest inference is viewed as an admission of guilt. If he hasn't been a racist or a bully, the stench of allegations will haunt him. No smoke without fire, people will cry. This isn't how it should be.

[Mince n Tatties]

I have no interest in finding out exactly what he's been accused of.
I have no interest in finding out whether he actually did it.
He should just be hanged for this thing, whatever it was, whether or not he actually done it. 

When you suffer racism I am sure you'll be interested.

Actually heard from another source of this about 10 days ago.
It was headlined as bullying,but because the boy involved was black the PC brigade at the BBC have added racism to it.
But innocent until proven guilty in my book,if guilty then slap him down.

[toshes mate]

Without taking this conversation a different way, surely you are innocent until proven guilty. It seems that's forgotten now and now the slightest inference is viewed as an admission of guilt. If he hasn't been a racist or a bully, the stench of allegations will haunt him. No smoke without fire, people will cry. This isn't how it should be.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and that makes the business of investigation, deliberation and decision making very serious business.  Unfortunately, as history tells us so very well, the football authorities do not have particularly clever records when it comes to taking allegations seriously and dealing with them appropriately.  That makes it much more possible for victims (either way) to be tainted.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Without taking this conversation a different way, surely you are innocent until proven guilty. It seems that's forgotten now and now the slightest inference is viewed as an admission of guilt. If he hasn't been a racist or a bully, the stench of allegations will haunt him. No smoke without fire, people will cry. This isn't how it should be.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and that makes the business of investigation, deliberation and decision making very serious business.  Unfortunately, as history tells us so very well, the football authorities do not have particularly clever records when it comes to taking allegations seriously and dealing with them appropriately.  That makes it much more possible for victims (either way) to be tainted.

I agree, as you say innocent until proved guilty. Too many people are accepting this must be true of the latest accusations. There are two sides to every story.
Far far too many of these accusations floating about these days, orchestrated by individuals who make themselves a victim for their own biased ends and political agendas to bring someone down they do not like, or is in their way or someone else's way job wise, and the PC Brigade rub their hands.
If in doubt throw the race card to try and scare people, well that nonsense has worn thinner than Olive Oil on a diet of bread and water, who is Popeyes girlfriend.
Although Bluto might have something to say about that.
Anyway seriously it is very much like mob rule.
Anyone can accuse another person of something they haven't done for personal and political reasons, it does not mean the accused is guilty. They throw the race card around like confetti.
Hundereds of Years ago religious nutters would accuse women of witchcraft, because they didnt like the way they live, and have them burnt at the stake. Or drowned in a river in the Ducking Stool.
If they survived the Ducking Stool they were presumed guilty and hanged.
If they drowned they were presumed innocent, not much consolation there.
So nothing has changed really, Mob rule can still rule.
They will be reserecting Witchfinder Generals to scour the Country on Horse back next. So I had better keep my head down as I wouldn't fancy being stretched on one of those medieval Torture Racks. I can't get through the turnstiles at Football grounds without bumping my head as it is. I have had more bumps on my head than a victim of mumps.
So the moral of this is not to leap to conclusions and jump on the band wagon, accusations are a serious business, and anyone whose accusations are unfounded should also be punished severely, it may just deter this disease that is affecting society.
In my line of work I come across this frequently, and there is often an agenda, hidden or not.

[toshes mate]

I wholeheartedly agree with you and that makes the business of investigation, deliberation and decision making very serious business.  Unfortunately, as history tells us so very well, the football authorities do not have particularly clever records when it comes to taking allegations seriously and dealing with them appropriately.  That makes it much more possible for victims (either way) to be tainted.

Please let me correct myself. 

Society or the ruling classes (i.e. it isn't just a football problem) do not always take the allegations seriously enough - either way, as in is there a victim and, if so, who is the victim?  We know that from recent scandals in the UK, in the USA, and many other places that people have been inappropriately abused or worse and that there hasn't been a means available to them to obtain justice be it for them or against them. 

I mentioned earlier that I was involved in a bullying case where the victim was actually the person accused of bullying who was actually being bullied by the accuser.  The employer found in favour of the wrong person and it was only an employment tribunal that found differently on the same evidence but with appropriate questioning of witnesses.  The tribunal judge criticised the investigative methods used by the employer suggesting they were partial from the start.  We may still be living in the dark ages of witch finding even if our methods of torture and justice are just a little more subtle. 

It isn't a trivial matter to be on the receiving end of abusive and inappropriate treatment and know that justice is a very long way away from you.  When justice is close by people think twice before they do bad things. 

[Marcel_Gecov]

I wholeheartedly agree with you and that makes the business of investigation, deliberation and decision making very serious business.  Unfortunately, as history tells us so very well, the football authorities do not have particularly clever records when it comes to taking allegations seriously and dealing with them appropriately.  That makes it much more possible for victims (either way) to be tainted.

Please let me correct myself. 

Society or the ruling classes (i.e. it isn't just a football problem) do not always take the allegations seriously enough - either way, as in is there a victim and, if so, who is the victim?  We know that from recent scandals in the UK, in the USA, and many other places that people have been inappropriately abused or worse and that there hasn't been a means available to them to obtain justice be it for them or against them. 

I mentioned earlier that I was involved in a bullying case where the victim was actually the person accused of bullying who was actually being bullied by the accuser.  The employer found in favour of the wrong person and it was only an employment tribunal that found differently on the same evidence but with appropriate questioning of witnesses.  The tribunal judge criticised the investigative methods used by the employer suggesting they were partial from the start.  We may still be living in the dark ages of witch finding even if our methods of torture and justice are just a little more subtle. 

It isn't a trivial matter to be on the receiving end of abusive and inappropriate treatment and know that justice is a very long way away from you.  When justice is close by people think twice before they do bad things.

A big problem in these cases are the semantics. Front loading and calling somebody the victim before any sign of proof is not helpful. Victim vs The Accused = only one winner.

[Lighthouse]

We as onlookers and spectators take great pleasure in bullying those who are accused. We don't know what happened and as we live in a era when everybody feels a victim of something I think we need to be careful about jumping to conclusions. I will wait until justice is done or seen to be done before attacking anybody whatever their alleged crime.

[toshes mate]

We as onlookers and spectators take great pleasure in bullying those who are accused. We don't know what happened and as we live in a era when everybody feels a victim of something I think we need to be careful about jumping to conclusions. I will wait until justice is done or seen to be done before attacking anybody whatever their alleged crime.

I'd could equally choose to say onlookers and spectators take great pleasure in doubting and bullying the accusers. 

The point I am making is that our systems of dealing with such matters need to be, by their very nature, much more sensitive and rapid in response.  We are all aware of trial by media which probably depends upon your favourite, and/or least favourite, sources of 'news'.  The BBC have already been named on this very thread and not for the first time.

That is why we need to own up to the fact that, for whatever reason, because we do not have a system in place that offers a rapid and just response, we will tend towards our personal status quo position.  Such positioning speaks loudly of us whether we like it or not, meaning we should not attack either parties involved, neither alleged victim nor the alleged accused.  That is the only safe neutral position.   

[toshes mate]

Thirty years ago we didn't have political correctness but we did have the same issues on inappropriate behaviour as we have now (they may actually have got worse but that is another matter).  I'd say that is a big thumbs down for political correctness and so if that is your meaning then, hey, I agree.  But if you think we should ignore the problem and it'll go away then no, it won't.