V.A.R system test shambles continues!

[davew]

Anybody watch the Spurs game tonight, what is our game coming to and is this system going to be used in the play offs?

The concept is (sort of) ok, the application is rubbish and the final verdict (sometimes) wrong, just like the referees decisions, so why bother?

[HatterDon]

as the announcer pointed out, there are several iterations of VAR out there, and the one the FA Cup is using is easily the worst. The guy called it "a twice refereed match." As I've said before, the system used in the Bundesliga is quicker and much less obtrusive.

[Twig]

Anybody watch the Spurs game tonight, what is our game coming to and is this system going to be used in the play offs?

The concept is (sort of) ok, the application is rubbish and the final verdict (sometimes) wrong, just like the referees decisions, so why bother?

You are spot on Dave, it's the application that I have real problems with. Total rubbish.

[Holders]

If it's not confined to the most important game-changing decisions then it'll make football stop-start like Rugby's become.

[toshes mate]

To say VAR has currently been underwhelming in football is clearly an understatement and yet, when you consider the difficulty in producing convincing evidence outside of the most obvious misdemeanours (e.g. clear offside using a straight line across the pitch at the moment the ball is passed forwards), you begin to understand why we may be asking too much of current technology.  You need very powerful computers to generate three dimensional imagery from any number of two dimensional camera sources.  It is the third dimension that is error strewn even when calculating where a ball lands or would have progressed to in cricket.  That the error margin is a matter of centimetres gives rise, in cricket, to resorting to the umpire's original decision when the ball is too close to hitting or missing the stumps (which do not move) for the equipment to judge.

I think our expectations of technology are as daft as they are for the human official.   What we should be looking out for are the outrageously wrong decisions where technology can satisfactorily produce evidence of the fallibility of the pitch officials.   Until a balance is accepted and/or the technology is improved to provide instant decision making with assurance, I believe we should not use VAR except for the most obvious mistakes.   

[bill taylors apprentice]

Firstly, when the spurs penalty kick was correctly disallowed due to the player stopping/starting his run up I was surprised he wasn't allowed to retake it but the game restarted with a goal kick!
When did they change that rule?

Maybe to keep the whole thing simpler, each manager can refer one incident to VAR during the match and the ref also has the option to refer one incident each half.

Not perfect but keeps it to a minimum and should help with the obvious errors.

[Burt]

The disallowed penalty was not a VAR decision - Son clearly stopped in his run-up and that is not allowed, which is why he got the yellow and a freekick was awarded to Dale.

[ToodlesMcToot]

Fairly obvious that some form of VAR is coming to England. My implementation of it would be to allow it to come but take it out of the hands of the official. Give each manager one opportunity per match to use it to challenge any call he wishes. Once it's used, it's gone. The single opportunity would most likely keep the stoppages from happening but for the most egregious/damaging calls (like misgiven penalties, ejections, goals from an offside position).

[ToodlesMcToot]

The disallowed penalty was not a VAR decision - Son clearly stopped in his run-up and that is not allowed, which is why he got the yellow and a freekick was awarded to Dale.

Is that play what the VAR uproar is all about? I saw replays of that and wondered why on Earth VAR was even used to review it. VAR is virtually pointless in that context. Son clearly stopped his run-up and deserved the card. That kind of foul should be awarded far more often.

[davew]

There were a lot of players who had infringed the penalty box before Son stopped his run up, I thought the penalty should have been taken again.

[toshes mate]

The disallowed penalty was not a VAR decision - Son clearly stopped in his run-up and that is not allowed, which is why he got the yellow and a freekick was awarded to Dale.

Not to mention the four attackers invading the area before the ball had been kicked.....

[Arthur]

Give each manager one opportunity per match to use it to challenge any call he wishes. Once it's used, it's gone.

If the challenge is a good one, I would say the opportunity to review a later decision has to remain with the manager (a la cricket - where a review is lost only if an unsuccessful challenge is made).

[ToodlesMcToot]

Give each manager one opportunity per match to use it to challenge any call he wishes. Once it's used, it's gone.

If the challenge is a good one, I would say the opportunity to review a later decision has to remain with the manager (a la cricket - where a review is lost only if an unsuccessful challenge is made).

Fine by me.

I'm on the side of VAR so long as it's use is efficient and impacts the flow of the match as little as possible. It is necessary because of the money involved these days, for good or bad. Just limit it's use to once or twice per match per side.

[bobbo]

Give each manager one opportunity per match to use it to challenge any call he wishes. Once it's used, it's gone.

If the challenge is a good one, I would say the opportunity to review a later decision has to remain with the manager (a la cricket - where a review is lost only if an unsuccessful challenge is made).

Fine by me.

I'm on the side of VAR so long as it's use is efficient and impacts the flow of the match as little as possible. It is necessary because of the money involved these days, for good or bad. Just limit it's use to once or twice per match per side.

me too I'm in favour. Most have been screaming out for such a system for a long time. Ok they need to polish up their delivery of it . People saying the crowd and players don't know what's going on, why do they need to it's just the final decision they need to know and the fact they are taking a long time," so what "
It really doesn't matter as long as they get it right. I'm confident it will improve.

[Matt10]

They need consultants from the Bundesliga. It is so well done, and hardly even feels like stoppages. That Spurs match was painful to watch and wait.

[HatterDon]

They need consultants from the Bundesliga. It is so well done, and hardly even feels like stoppages. That Spurs match was painful to watch and wait.

thank you; been saying that all along

[toshes mate]

They need consultants from the Bundesliga. It is so well done, and hardly even feels like stoppages. That Spurs match was painful to watch and wait.

thank you; been saying that all along

And yet reports suggest fans don't trust it, and players are said to be 47% against it.  I still believe we are asking too much of it instead of reserving it for obvious (and/or costly) mistakes.

[Arthur]

Give each manager one opportunity per match to use it to challenge any call he wishes. Once it's used, it's gone.

If the challenge is a good one, I would say the opportunity to review a later decision has to remain with the manager (a la cricket - where a review is lost only if an unsuccessful challenge is made).

Fine by me.

Just limit it's use to once or twice per match per side.

The point of my previous post is that the number of challenges would not be limited.

If the match officials make a dozen wrong calls and the two managers review each decision successfully, the opportunity to challenge the next dubious call would remain in place.

[ToodlesMcToot]

Give each manager one opportunity per match to use it to challenge any call he wishes. Once it's used, it's gone.

If the challenge is a good one, I would say the opportunity to review a later decision has to remain with the manager (a la cricket - where a review is lost only if an unsuccessful challenge is made).

Fine by me.

Just limit it's use to once or twice per match per side.

The point of my previous post is that the number of challenges would not be limited.

If the match officials make a dozen wrong calls and the two managers review each decision successfully, the opportunity to challenge the next dubious call would remain in place.

Ok. I understand. However, my point was that by limiting the number of times that a manager can "challenge" you would also limit the triviality of the challenges.

But if, as Mr HatterDon suggests, the FA use the B'liga model and consult with those who implement it, then perhaps my idea would be unnecessary. The few matches I've watched of B'liga there have run really smoothly and VAR has been very much unobtrusive.