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Interesting read on Slav, Claudio and what we might see from now on

Started by Snibbo, November 22, 2018, 09:59:57 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Snibbo

https://medium.com/@BlameDraymond/on-jokanovic-ranieri-and-the-process-f2452129a17d

Nick MacNee Fulham Fan. Fanalytics.Nov 20

On Jokanovic, Ranieri and "The Process"

On Jokanovic
I've been fairly dogmatic in my criticism of Jokanovic since the start of October. I didn't see a plan or system that we had in the Championship or even at the start of this PL campaign. That all obviously came to a head at Huddersfield where we put in a performance so embarrassing, even that Derby County team of 2007/8 would've been ashamed to watch that one. There was no identity or vision to what we were doing and the players looking so clueless on where exactly they were meant to be tells it all about how poor of a coach Jokanovic was in getting his players ready for matches, at least at this Premier League level.

The performances were dreadful before that as well. The attack showed no signs of threatening Bournemouth at home and we were all over the place against Cardiff. Jokanovic had promptly bottled his chance at keeping his job when he couldn't even get a single point out of a stretch of three games that I would've said are all winnable.

Even so, I thought the first half at Liverpool would keep him at least through the Southampton game. The defence showed signs of life and I think Slav stumbled upon something in the Anguissa, Chambers and Cairney midfield. I say stumbled upon because it was a lineup that beggared belief when it was announced at 11am on Sunday. That said though, the second half quickly reverted back to the abysmal norms and I can't blame Khan senior for pulling the trigger quickly after.

Is it fair to say that we should've seen this coming when Slav started firing coaches left, right and centre? Slav's sacking of Stuart Gray was nonsensical and bizarre, particularly when replacing him with a wet behind the ears coach in Scott Parker fresh off only one year's worth of coaching at youth level. His fall out with Jose Sambade in the goalkeeping department should've set off red flags, particularly when it came out that Fabri had been Sambade's recommendation. Why put that much trust in your goalkeeping coach to sign a goalkeeper and then bin him off two weeks into the season when you don't like the goalkeeper? We still haven't heard anything on why Alberto Escobar left as well. It just all stunk of desperation in an attempt to find something or someone that worked.

The contract rejection news doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I think that Slav would've walked this season, regardless of the club staying up, unless the Khans offered him the absolute farm of money. He obviously wasn't a fan of being restricted in the transfer market, which is becoming an increasingly relevant trend amongst managers in the transfer market (see Mourinho, Jose) and probably desired more control unsurprisingly. But did it really reach that point where Jokanovic hated working for Fulham so much or that he felt he wasn't paid enough that he turned down a bumper extension? It's hard to say. If Ranieri works out, then it's very likely that his excessive financial demands could be Fulham's gain.

Jokanovic will find another job somewhere in England. No doubt. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he shows up at a Reading or Bristol City, where he might be given some sort of control to operate in the transfer market, which will probably be the litmus test for him as a manager. I sadly think however that he'll fallen into (if he hasn't already) the Karanka/Cameron Jerome category of "Great in the Championship, not in the Premier League".

His legacy at Fulham will not reach the highs that Hodgson and Tigana hit but he'll still be extremely fondly remembered for the Wembley win. For that, we won't forget him. Oh and the Chris Martin train station comment. That was loving hilarious. Thanks Slav. Just try not to be so snarly at your next job.

On the Players and the Transfer "Process"
I'm still a firm believer that the players that we signed this season are still very good players. Yes, I still believe that Andre Frank Zambo Anguissa should start every game. Yes, we should play Luciano Vietto and one of Schurrle/Sessegnon next to Mitrovic. Yes, we should be starting Alfie Mawson at CB every game.

There have been some mishaps. Fabri, not for his own fault, was a waste of money thanks to a Jokanovic disagreement. Tim Fosu-Mensah has seriously struggled at RB and has lost out to Cyrus Christie. Jean Michel Seri looks to have lost complete interest (something Ranieri will need to rectify and quick). Even until a few weeks ago, we were all shrugging at why we had brought in Sergio Rico.

Unfortunately, we've reached a period of time where we can no longer afford to pay for the mistakes of other managers i.e. players that they've brought in that then don't fit the ideals of the next manager. You only have to look at when Slav first came — Ben Pringle, Matt Smith and Ryan Tunnicliffe all didn't fit Slav's system at all. They were cut out over time from the playing squad and eventually, Fulham were forced to move them on at some point. As a result, Fulham can only look at certain managers who fit the squad and style envisioned rather than calling in a Big Sam who'll sign jargon in a transfer window, leave in the summer and leave the club burdened with players the next manager doesn't want. Is it cost cutting? You could say so. You could also say that it's sensible. Yes, it's cheaper but it allows us to spend more money in the market on players that excite fans and doesn't ensure a constant process of recycle and turnover — in other words (or at least, mine), the squad is built with a vision or idea in mind.

The transfer policy is here to stay for as long as the Khans own Fulham and I don't see any reason why we should decry it. It revolutionised Fulham in the summer of 2016 and January this year (Before you ask, yes, Mitrovic was a stats person's dream, not just a player Slav called and persuaded him to come). Yes, it's had its misgivings and it's not without issue at times (I think you should probably ask your manager if he's interested in playing a defender from the Spanish second division). But it's far better compared to the old alternative that initially brought Fulham to its knees in the Championship and lumbered us with Kieran Richardson and Darren Bent

On Ranieri
If rumours are to be believed, Ranieri was seemingly behind the likes of Wenger (never happening for obvious reasons), Jardim (a pipe dream) and Villas-Boas*. I reasoned a few times on social media that if the club hierarchy decided to cut bait with Slav, then Ranieri would probably be the pick (at least for me) out of all the out of work managers. It just made a bit too much sense, with all the unpopularity and uproar that a Moyes or Allardyce would generate.

I'm positive on the Ranieri hiring. I hate to talk about clichés and such, but he just feels "right" for Fulham. The "kind old man" at Fulham image just seems to fit very well and well, the last time we had one managing us, he took us to a European final and built the best team we ever saw play in Fulham shirts.

I don't think we'll line up in the 442 that charged Leicester to a title, rather the 4231 that he employed at Nantes. Interestingly, his Nantes team last year rated as the third best defence (per total xG conceded — 33.22) in Ligue 1, only behind PSG (28.30) and Lyon (30.87), both of whom made the Champions League. So, there's at least hope that Ranieri has the experience and knowhow to turn around this preposterously bad defence. That said though, Nantes were fairly futile in front of goal under Ranieri — they scored only 36 goals (but underperformed xG — 39.80, fifth worst in the league).

For starters, I think we can wave goodbye to the Cairney Seri in central midfield lineup under Claudio — he'll sacrifice creativity if it means more defensive solidity. Nantes made the most tackles per game in Ligue 1 last season at 19.9, which means we might see more of the Chambers Anguissa in the central midfield with Seri or Cairney playing in the number 10 role.

In another departure from Leicester, Ranieri also allowed his full backs free reign to bomb forward and attack. Lucas Lima and Leo Dubois at left back and right back respectfully led the way for Nantes in key passes created per game — could we see a return of the full backs charging forward and getting crosses into the box plan that Jokanovic couldn't implement in the Premier League? It's possible. There's also a chance of Ranieri reverting back to the Leicester tactic of keeping the full backs (Simpson and Fuchs) back at all time to cover Morgan and Huth, two very slow centre backs — I'd imagine this would be the route Ranieri goes down if he decides that the defence is that bad.

Even with Jokanovic's departure, I can't see Mitrovic reverting to his Newcastle character of a sulky, moody player that picked up cards like there was no tomorrow. Yes, he was understandably close with Slav (as were a lot of the squad that got promoted). But he's a professional footballer, not a child throwing his toys out of the pram. He'll move on from Jokanovic and get behind Ranieri. In terms of play style, it's possible that we could see Fulham moving to a two up front, with one of Schürrle or Vietto playing alongside him (and hopefully moving Sessegnon back to his normal position of left wing), but given Fulham's complete dearth of Premier League talent on the wings outside of Schü and Vietto (No, I don't believe in Neeskens Kebano and Floyd Ayite as PL options), I'd consider this unlikely until we get reinforcements in January (as seems likely now).

Concluding Thoughts (For Now)
Ultimately, the page has been turned and Jokanovic is no longer our manager. He brought us to the promised land but wasn't able to adapt to the Premier League. Thus, Ranieri.

I think Ranieri will keep us up. Simply put, the squad is too talented to get relegated and he's a good enough coach that will make us more compact. Could we see a return to "Hodgson-ball" of defending and attacking as a unit while seeking to retain possession when possible**? I'd say it's highly likely. Will it be exciting? Probably not. Sadly, I don't think we can play in the Jokanovic style in the Premier League until or if we're comfortably settled here and have a squad up to this level and comfortable with playing each other. How long will that take? Your guess is as good as mine.

*If we wanted more suicidal defending, I would rather have kept watching Jokanovic chop and change defences for the rest of the campaign. Honestly, did we want to watch the likes of Kane, Salah and Aguero repeatedly spring the offside trap. Christ, Villas-Boas would've been an awful appointment. Plus, didn't he retire to go drive rally cars in Dakar? Yep, real good one that would've been.

**There's a marked difference from Ranieri's "keep the ball when possible" style and Jokanovic's "keep the ball at all times, possession for the sake of possession" philosophy. Again, I reiterate the Hodgson comparison — I do think it'll be similar to that.



Neutral Zone Ultra

Although a little bit harsh on Jokanovic perhaps, I think this sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well. But I think it's the point at the end that is most important, namely that Slav is gone, and we need to get over it. Now, Ranieri.

Bassey the warrior

Quote from: Snibbo on November 22, 2018, 09:59:57 AM
https://medium.com/@BlameDraymond/on-jokanovic-ranieri-and-the-process-f2452129a17d

Nick MacNee Fulham Fan. Fanalytics.Nov 20

On Jokanovic, Ranieri and "The Process"

On Jokanovic
I've been fairly dogmatic in my criticism of Jokanovic since the start of October. I didn't see a plan or system that we had in the Championship or even at the start of this PL campaign. That all obviously came to a head at Huddersfield where we put in a performance so embarrassing, even that Derby County team of 2007/8 would've been ashamed to watch that one. There was no identity or vision to what we were doing and the players looking so clueless on where exactly they were meant to be tells it all about how poor of a coach Jokanovic was in getting his players ready for matches, at least at this Premier League level.

The performances were dreadful before that as well. The attack showed no signs of threatening Bournemouth at home and we were all over the place against Cardiff. Jokanovic had promptly bottled his chance at keeping his job when he couldn't even get a single point out of a stretch of three games that I would've said are all winnable.

Even so, I thought the first half at Liverpool would keep him at least through the Southampton game. The defence showed signs of life and I think Slav stumbled upon something in the Anguissa, Chambers and Cairney midfield. I say stumbled upon because it was a lineup that beggared belief when it was announced at 11am on Sunday. That said though, the second half quickly reverted back to the abysmal norms and I can't blame Khan senior for pulling the trigger quickly after.

Is it fair to say that we should've seen this coming when Slav started firing coaches left, right and centre? Slav's sacking of Stuart Gray was nonsensical and bizarre, particularly when replacing him with a wet behind the ears coach in Scott Parker fresh off only one year's worth of coaching at youth level. His fall out with Jose Sambade in the goalkeeping department should've set off red flags, particularly when it came out that Fabri had been Sambade's recommendation. Why put that much trust in your goalkeeping coach to sign a goalkeeper and then bin him off two weeks into the season when you don't like the goalkeeper? We still haven't heard anything on why Alberto Escobar left as well. It just all stunk of desperation in an attempt to find something or someone that worked.

The contract rejection news doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I think that Slav would've walked this season, regardless of the club staying up, unless the Khans offered him the absolute farm of money. He obviously wasn't a fan of being restricted in the transfer market, which is becoming an increasingly relevant trend amongst managers in the transfer market (see Mourinho, Jose) and probably desired more control unsurprisingly. But did it really reach that point where Jokanovic hated working for Fulham so much or that he felt he wasn't paid enough that he turned down a bumper extension? It's hard to say. If Ranieri works out, then it's very likely that his excessive financial demands could be Fulham's gain.

Jokanovic will find another job somewhere in England. No doubt. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he shows up at a Reading or Bristol City, where he might be given some sort of control to operate in the transfer market, which will probably be the litmus test for him as a manager. I sadly think however that he'll fallen into (if he hasn't already) the Karanka/Cameron Jerome category of "Great in the Championship, not in the Premier League".

His legacy at Fulham will not reach the highs that Hodgson and Tigana hit but he'll still be extremely fondly remembered for the Wembley win. For that, we won't forget him. Oh and the Chris Martin train station comment. That was flipping hilarious. Thanks Slav. Just try not to be so snarly at your next job.

On the Players and the Transfer "Process"
I'm still a firm believer that the players that we signed this season are still very good players. Yes, I still believe that Andre Frank Zambo Anguissa should start every game. Yes, we should play Luciano Vietto and one of Schurrle/Sessegnon next to Mitrovic. Yes, we should be starting Alfie Mawson at CB every game.

There have been some mishaps. Fabri, not for his own fault, was a waste of money thanks to a Jokanovic disagreement. Tim Fosu-Mensah has seriously struggled at RB and has lost out to Cyrus Christie. Jean Michel Seri looks to have lost complete interest (something Ranieri will need to rectify and quick). Even until a few weeks ago, we were all shrugging at why we had brought in Sergio Rico.

Unfortunately, we've reached a period of time where we can no longer afford to pay for the mistakes of other managers i.e. players that they've brought in that then don't fit the ideals of the next manager. You only have to look at when Slav first came — Ben Pringle, Matt Smith and Ryan Tunnicliffe all didn't fit Slav's system at all. They were cut out over time from the playing squad and eventually, Fulham were forced to move them on at some point. As a result, Fulham can only look at certain managers who fit the squad and style envisioned rather than calling in a Big Sam who'll sign jargon in a transfer window, leave in the summer and leave the club burdened with players the next manager doesn't want. Is it cost cutting? You could say so. You could also say that it's sensible. Yes, it's cheaper but it allows us to spend more money in the market on players that excite fans and doesn't ensure a constant process of recycle and turnover — in other words (or at least, mine), the squad is built with a vision or idea in mind.

The transfer policy is here to stay for as long as the Khans own Fulham and I don't see any reason why we should decry it. It revolutionised Fulham in the summer of 2016 and January this year (Before you ask, yes, Mitrovic was a stats person's dream, not just a player Slav called and persuaded him to come). Yes, it's had its misgivings and it's not without issue at times (I think you should probably ask your manager if he's interested in playing a defender from the Spanish second division). But it's far better compared to the old alternative that initially brought Fulham to its knees in the Championship and lumbered us with Kieran Richardson and Darren Bent

On Ranieri
If rumours are to be believed, Ranieri was seemingly behind the likes of Wenger (never happening for obvious reasons), Jardim (a pipe dream) and Villas-Boas*. I reasoned a few times on social media that if the club hierarchy decided to cut bait with Slav, then Ranieri would probably be the pick (at least for me) out of all the out of work managers. It just made a bit too much sense, with all the unpopularity and uproar that a Moyes or Allardyce would generate.

I'm positive on the Ranieri hiring. I hate to talk about clichés and such, but he just feels "right" for Fulham. The "kind old man" at Fulham image just seems to fit very well and well, the last time we had one managing us, he took us to a European final and built the best team we ever saw play in Fulham shirts.

I don't think we'll line up in the 442 that charged Leicester to a title, rather the 4231 that he employed at Nantes. Interestingly, his Nantes team last year rated as the third best defence (per total xG conceded — 33.22) in Ligue 1, only behind PSG (28.30) and Lyon (30.87), both of whom made the Champions League. So, there's at least hope that Ranieri has the experience and knowhow to turn around this preposterously bad defence. That said though, Nantes were fairly futile in front of goal under Ranieri — they scored only 36 goals (but underperformed xG — 39.80, fifth worst in the league).

For starters, I think we can wave goodbye to the Cairney Seri in central midfield lineup under Claudio — he'll sacrifice creativity if it means more defensive solidity. Nantes made the most tackles per game in Ligue 1 last season at 19.9, which means we might see more of the Chambers Anguissa in the central midfield with Seri or Cairney playing in the number 10 role.

In another departure from Leicester, Ranieri also allowed his full backs free reign to bomb forward and attack. Lucas Lima and Leo Dubois at left back and right back respectfully led the way for Nantes in key passes created per game — could we see a return of the full backs charging forward and getting crosses into the box plan that Jokanovic couldn't implement in the Premier League? It's possible. There's also a chance of Ranieri reverting back to the Leicester tactic of keeping the full backs (Simpson and Fuchs) back at all time to cover Morgan and Huth, two very slow centre backs — I'd imagine this would be the route Ranieri goes down if he decides that the defence is that bad.

Even with Jokanovic's departure, I can't see Mitrovic reverting to his Newcastle character of a sulky, moody player that picked up cards like there was no tomorrow. Yes, he was understandably close with Slav (as were a lot of the squad that got promoted). But he's a professional footballer, not a child throwing his toys out of the pram. He'll move on from Jokanovic and get behind Ranieri. In terms of play style, it's possible that we could see Fulham moving to a two up front, with one of Schürrle or Vietto playing alongside him (and hopefully moving Sessegnon back to his normal position of left wing), but given Fulham's complete dearth of Premier League talent on the wings outside of Schü and Vietto (No, I don't believe in Neeskens Kebano and Floyd Ayite as PL options), I'd consider this unlikely until we get reinforcements in January (as seems likely now).

Concluding Thoughts (For Now)
Ultimately, the page has been turned and Jokanovic is no longer our manager. He brought us to the promised land but wasn't able to adapt to the Premier League. Thus, Ranieri.

I think Ranieri will keep us up. Simply put, the squad is too talented to get relegated and he's a good enough coach that will make us more compact. Could we see a return to "Hodgson-ball" of defending and attacking as a unit while seeking to retain possession when possible**? I'd say it's highly likely. Will it be exciting? Probably not. Sadly, I don't think we can play in the Jokanovic style in the Premier League until or if we're comfortably settled here and have a squad up to this level and comfortable with playing each other. How long will that take? Your guess is as good as mine.

*If we wanted more suicidal defending, I would rather have kept watching Jokanovic chop and change defences for the rest of the campaign. Honestly, did we want to watch the likes of Kane, Salah and Aguero repeatedly spring the offside trap. Christ, Villas-Boas would've been an awful appointment. Plus, didn't he retire to go drive rally cars in Dakar? Yep, real good one that would've been.

**There's a marked difference from Ranieri's "keep the ball when possible" style and Jokanovic's "keep the ball at all times, possession for the sake of possession" philosophy. Again, I reiterate the Hodgson comparison — I do think it'll be similar to that.




Great analysis, really good. I would contend though that Ayite and Kebano can play a role in the PL. Both have good dribbling ability (something we are sorely lacking). Ayite is a tireless worker and tracks back well, Kebano a good finisher. I think at the least they should be options of the bench.


Neutral Zone Ultra

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on November 22, 2018, 11:07:35 AM
Quote from: Snibbo on November 22, 2018, 09:59:57 AM
https://medium.com/@BlameDraymond/on-jokanovic-ranieri-and-the-process-f2452129a17d

Nick MacNee Fulham Fan. Fanalytics.Nov 20

On Jokanovic, Ranieri and "The Process"

On Jokanovic
I've been fairly dogmatic in my criticism of Jokanovic since the start of October. I didn't see a plan or system that we had in the Championship or even at the start of this PL campaign. That all obviously came to a head at Huddersfield where we put in a performance so embarrassing, even that Derby County team of 2007/8 would've been ashamed to watch that one. There was no identity or vision to what we were doing and the players looking so clueless on where exactly they were meant to be tells it all about how poor of a coach Jokanovic was in getting his players ready for matches, at least at this Premier League level.

The performances were dreadful before that as well. The attack showed no signs of threatening Bournemouth at home and we were all over the place against Cardiff. Jokanovic had promptly bottled his chance at keeping his job when he couldn't even get a single point out of a stretch of three games that I would've said are all winnable.

Even so, I thought the first half at Liverpool would keep him at least through the Southampton game. The defence showed signs of life and I think Slav stumbled upon something in the Anguissa, Chambers and Cairney midfield. I say stumbled upon because it was a lineup that beggared belief when it was announced at 11am on Sunday. That said though, the second half quickly reverted back to the abysmal norms and I can't blame Khan senior for pulling the trigger quickly after.

Is it fair to say that we should've seen this coming when Slav started firing coaches left, right and centre? Slav's sacking of Stuart Gray was nonsensical and bizarre, particularly when replacing him with a wet behind the ears coach in Scott Parker fresh off only one year's worth of coaching at youth level. His fall out with Jose Sambade in the goalkeeping department should've set off red flags, particularly when it came out that Fabri had been Sambade's recommendation. Why put that much trust in your goalkeeping coach to sign a goalkeeper and then bin him off two weeks into the season when you don't like the goalkeeper? We still haven't heard anything on why Alberto Escobar left as well. It just all stunk of desperation in an attempt to find something or someone that worked.

The contract rejection news doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I think that Slav would've walked this season, regardless of the club staying up, unless the Khans offered him the absolute farm of money. He obviously wasn't a fan of being restricted in the transfer market, which is becoming an increasingly relevant trend amongst managers in the transfer market (see Mourinho, Jose) and probably desired more control unsurprisingly. But did it really reach that point where Jokanovic hated working for Fulham so much or that he felt he wasn't paid enough that he turned down a bumper extension? It's hard to say. If Ranieri works out, then it's very likely that his excessive financial demands could be Fulham's gain.

Jokanovic will find another job somewhere in England. No doubt. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he shows up at a Reading or Bristol City, where he might be given some sort of control to operate in the transfer market, which will probably be the litmus test for him as a manager. I sadly think however that he'll fallen into (if he hasn't already) the Karanka/Cameron Jerome category of "Great in the Championship, not in the Premier League".

His legacy at Fulham will not reach the highs that Hodgson and Tigana hit but he'll still be extremely fondly remembered for the Wembley win. For that, we won't forget him. Oh and the Chris Martin train station comment. That was flipping hilarious. Thanks Slav. Just try not to be so snarly at your next job.

On the Players and the Transfer "Process"
I'm still a firm believer that the players that we signed this season are still very good players. Yes, I still believe that Andre Frank Zambo Anguissa should start every game. Yes, we should play Luciano Vietto and one of Schurrle/Sessegnon next to Mitrovic. Yes, we should be starting Alfie Mawson at CB every game.

There have been some mishaps. Fabri, not for his own fault, was a waste of money thanks to a Jokanovic disagreement. Tim Fosu-Mensah has seriously struggled at RB and has lost out to Cyrus Christie. Jean Michel Seri looks to have lost complete interest (something Ranieri will need to rectify and quick). Even until a few weeks ago, we were all shrugging at why we had brought in Sergio Rico.

Unfortunately, we've reached a period of time where we can no longer afford to pay for the mistakes of other managers i.e. players that they've brought in that then don't fit the ideals of the next manager. You only have to look at when Slav first came — Ben Pringle, Matt Smith and Ryan Tunnicliffe all didn't fit Slav's system at all. They were cut out over time from the playing squad and eventually, Fulham were forced to move them on at some point. As a result, Fulham can only look at certain managers who fit the squad and style envisioned rather than calling in a Big Sam who'll sign jargon in a transfer window, leave in the summer and leave the club burdened with players the next manager doesn't want. Is it cost cutting? You could say so. You could also say that it's sensible. Yes, it's cheaper but it allows us to spend more money in the market on players that excite fans and doesn't ensure a constant process of recycle and turnover — in other words (or at least, mine), the squad is built with a vision or idea in mind.

The transfer policy is here to stay for as long as the Khans own Fulham and I don't see any reason why we should decry it. It revolutionised Fulham in the summer of 2016 and January this year (Before you ask, yes, Mitrovic was a stats person's dream, not just a player Slav called and persuaded him to come). Yes, it's had its misgivings and it's not without issue at times (I think you should probably ask your manager if he's interested in playing a defender from the Spanish second division). But it's far better compared to the old alternative that initially brought Fulham to its knees in the Championship and lumbered us with Kieran Richardson and Darren Bent

On Ranieri
If rumours are to be believed, Ranieri was seemingly behind the likes of Wenger (never happening for obvious reasons), Jardim (a pipe dream) and Villas-Boas*. I reasoned a few times on social media that if the club hierarchy decided to cut bait with Slav, then Ranieri would probably be the pick (at least for me) out of all the out of work managers. It just made a bit too much sense, with all the unpopularity and uproar that a Moyes or Allardyce would generate.

I'm positive on the Ranieri hiring. I hate to talk about clichés and such, but he just feels "right" for Fulham. The "kind old man" at Fulham image just seems to fit very well and well, the last time we had one managing us, he took us to a European final and built the best team we ever saw play in Fulham shirts.

I don't think we'll line up in the 442 that charged Leicester to a title, rather the 4231 that he employed at Nantes. Interestingly, his Nantes team last year rated as the third best defence (per total xG conceded — 33.22) in Ligue 1, only behind PSG (28.30) and Lyon (30.87), both of whom made the Champions League. So, there's at least hope that Ranieri has the experience and knowhow to turn around this preposterously bad defence. That said though, Nantes were fairly futile in front of goal under Ranieri — they scored only 36 goals (but underperformed xG — 39.80, fifth worst in the league).

For starters, I think we can wave goodbye to the Cairney Seri in central midfield lineup under Claudio — he'll sacrifice creativity if it means more defensive solidity. Nantes made the most tackles per game in Ligue 1 last season at 19.9, which means we might see more of the Chambers Anguissa in the central midfield with Seri or Cairney playing in the number 10 role.

In another departure from Leicester, Ranieri also allowed his full backs free reign to bomb forward and attack. Lucas Lima and Leo Dubois at left back and right back respectfully led the way for Nantes in key passes created per game — could we see a return of the full backs charging forward and getting crosses into the box plan that Jokanovic couldn't implement in the Premier League? It's possible. There's also a chance of Ranieri reverting back to the Leicester tactic of keeping the full backs (Simpson and Fuchs) back at all time to cover Morgan and Huth, two very slow centre backs — I'd imagine this would be the route Ranieri goes down if he decides that the defence is that bad.

Even with Jokanovic's departure, I can't see Mitrovic reverting to his Newcastle character of a sulky, moody player that picked up cards like there was no tomorrow. Yes, he was understandably close with Slav (as were a lot of the squad that got promoted). But he's a professional footballer, not a child throwing his toys out of the pram. He'll move on from Jokanovic and get behind Ranieri. In terms of play style, it's possible that we could see Fulham moving to a two up front, with one of Schürrle or Vietto playing alongside him (and hopefully moving Sessegnon back to his normal position of left wing), but given Fulham's complete dearth of Premier League talent on the wings outside of Schü and Vietto (No, I don't believe in Neeskens Kebano and Floyd Ayite as PL options), I'd consider this unlikely until we get reinforcements in January (as seems likely now).

Concluding Thoughts (For Now)
Ultimately, the page has been turned and Jokanovic is no longer our manager. He brought us to the promised land but wasn't able to adapt to the Premier League. Thus, Ranieri.

I think Ranieri will keep us up. Simply put, the squad is too talented to get relegated and he's a good enough coach that will make us more compact. Could we see a return to "Hodgson-ball" of defending and attacking as a unit while seeking to retain possession when possible**? I'd say it's highly likely. Will it be exciting? Probably not. Sadly, I don't think we can play in the Jokanovic style in the Premier League until or if we're comfortably settled here and have a squad up to this level and comfortable with playing each other. How long will that take? Your guess is as good as mine.

*If we wanted more suicidal defending, I would rather have kept watching Jokanovic chop and change defences for the rest of the campaign. Honestly, did we want to watch the likes of Kane, Salah and Aguero repeatedly spring the offside trap. Christ, Villas-Boas would've been an awful appointment. Plus, didn't he retire to go drive rally cars in Dakar? Yep, real good one that would've been.

**There's a marked difference from Ranieri's "keep the ball when possible" style and Jokanovic's "keep the ball at all times, possession for the sake of possession" philosophy. Again, I reiterate the Hodgson comparison — I do think it'll be similar to that.




Great analysis, really good. I would contend though that Ayite and Kebano can play a role in the PL. Both have good dribbling ability (something we are sorely lacking). Ayite is a tireless worker and tracks back well, Kebano a good finisher. I think at the least they should be options of the bench.
Agree, I think they're valuable squad players at the very least.

KJS

A good post but I too feel Ayite has the Boa Morte factor that could surprise the Premier league

Neil D

Vietto - industrious as well as creative - may well get more game time and I would be happy with that.  If it's a toss-up between Cairney and Seri then that's a no-contest and not out of loyalty to our talisman of the last few seasons.  Neither is much of a midfield ball-winner but Cairney does at least vision going forward.  Seri is hopeless as a ball-winner and particularly unadventurous in his distribution. 


Spirit of 2000

That piece is absolutely superb and bang on in my opinion. Yes I got the slightly critical edge regarding Slav but an element of "harsh but fair" applies - The more I think about it and what I read of Slav, Ranieri and how things have regressed rather than improved this season, the timing was right for Slav to go and he will remain in my top 5 favourite FFC managers ever, but as per the OP - not on the level of either Hodgson or Tigana. His issues did revolve around not signing that contract when offered and for overseeing the removal of Stuart Gray, replacing him with Parker. That and thinking he could play football in a pure sense, exciting, attacking football as we got promoted with (and I will never forget the joy of watching it in the championship and the great day at Wembley, a day which is one of the best of my entire life - I thank Slavisa greatly for all that) - but that would never work with the players we have against the opposition we face at this level without the graft of earning the right to play it. I think earlier pieces I've posted on here about Ranieri and how he likes to set up, his style etc are reflcted in this piece. He I believe is a good choice of replacement - even whilst we say goodbye to the creativity and flair and I sincerely hope he keeps us up.

Deeping_white

Quote from: Neil D on November 22, 2018, 01:46:04 PM
Vietto - industrious as well as creative - may well get more game time and I would be happy with that.  If it's a toss-up between Cairney and Seri then that's a no-contest and not out of loyalty to our talisman of the last few seasons.  Neither is much of a midfield ball-winner but Cairney does at least vision going forward.  Seri is hopeless as a ball-winner and particularly unadventurous in his distribution. 

Seri has the joint highest recoveries (i.e winning the ball back) out of everyone in the team this season with 66, second most successful tackles (16) and fourth most interceptions (12), so that observation is a myth. Oh and he's created the fifth highest amount of chances in the league as well. Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/11/22/will-claudio-ranieri-do-fix-fulham/

Milo

Are we sure Jokanovic fired Gray? Quite a bold statement.

I think he played a role for sure having seen Gray left out of coaches pictures post Wembley.. clearly a clique issue.. but are we sure Jokanovic swung the axe?


Neutral Zone Ultra

Quote from: Milo on November 22, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
Are we sure Jokanovic fired Gray? Quite a bold statement.

I think he played a role for sure having seen Gray left out of coaches pictures post Wembley.. clearly a clique issue.. but are we sure Jokanovic swung the axe?
I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that Slavisa was responsible for his coaching staff, yes.

NJFulham

Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 22, 2018, 03:30:10 PM
Quote from: Milo on November 22, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
Are we sure Jokanovic fired Gray? Quite a bold statement.

I think he played a role for sure having seen Gray left out of coaches pictures post Wembley.. clearly a clique issue.. but are we sure Jokanovic swung the axe?
I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that Slavisa was responsible for his coaching staff, yes.
He did not hire him, though.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk


Neutral Zone Ultra

Quote from: NJFulham on November 22, 2018, 03:46:46 PM
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on November 22, 2018, 03:30:10 PM
Quote from: Milo on November 22, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
Are we sure Jokanovic fired Gray? Quite a bold statement.

I think he played a role for sure having seen Gray left out of coaches pictures post Wembley.. clearly a clique issue.. but are we sure Jokanovic swung the axe?
I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that Slavisa was responsible for his coaching staff, yes.
He did not hire him, though.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
Because he was here before Slav got hired I'm pretty sure


MJG

Quote from: Milo on November 22, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
Are we sure Jokanovic fired Gray? Quite a bold statement.

I think he played a role for sure having seen Gray left out of coaches pictures post Wembley.. clearly a clique issue.. but are we sure Jokanovic swung the axe?
Yes he did, wanted Parker and flet Gray was surplus to requirements and also as stated he was already here anyway as a coach. Contract was up and Slavs choice to renew it or not.
Just the views of a long term fan

Neil D

[/quote
Quote from: Deeping_white on November 22, 2018, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: Neil D on November 22, 2018, 01:46:04 PM
Vietto - industrious as well as creative - may well get more game time and I would be happy with that.  If it's a toss-up between Cairney and Seri then that's a no-contest and not out of loyalty to our talisman of the last few seasons.  Neither is much of a midfield ball-winner but Cairney does at least vision going forward.  Seri is hopeless as a ball-winner and particularly unadventurous in his distribution. 

Seri has the joint highest recoveries (i.e winning the ball back) out of everyone in the team this season with 66, second most successful tackles (16) and fourth most interceptions (12), so that observation is a myth. Oh and he's created the fifth highest amount of chances in the league as well. Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/11/22/will-claudio-ranieri-do-fix-fulham/
Well, these absolute stats don't tell us much.  Seri has played 927 minutes (third highest in the team) against Vietto's 554.  Vietto has still managed to score twice as many assists as Seri.  Given Seri's game time, you would expect high figures for tackles and passes etc.  Much of Seri's  passing is limited in scope and vision.  Hence the measly two assists in 927 minutes of football!  I would rather see Vietto in a Ranieri team than Seri.  It's not about Tony Khan-style number crunching.  It's about what you see on the field of play and clearly we see things differently.

Deeping_white

Quote from: Neil D on November 22, 2018, 01:46:04 PM
Vietto - industrious as well as creative - may well get more game time and I would be happy with that.  If it's a toss-up between Cairney and Seri then that's a no-contest and not out of loyalty to our talisman of the last few seasons.  Neither is much of a midfield ball-winner but Cairney does at least vision going forward.  Seri is hopeless as a ball-winner and particularly unadventurous in his distribution. 

Seri has the joint highest recoveries (i.e winning the ball back) out of everyone in the team this season with 66, second most successful tackles (16) and fourth most interceptions (12), so that observation is a myth. Oh and he's created the fifth highest amount of chances in the league as well. Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/11/22/will-claudio-ranieri-do-fix-fulham/
[/quote
Quote from: Deeping_white on November 22, 2018, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: Neil D on November 22, 2018, 01:46:04 PM

Well, these absolute stats don't tell us much.  Seri has played 927 minutes (third highest in the team) against Vietto's 554.  Vietto has still managed to score twice as many assists as Seri.  Given Seri's game time, you would expect high figures for tackles and passes etc.  Much of Seri's  passing is limited in scope and vision.  Hence the measly two assists in 927 minutes of football!  I would rather see Vietto in a Ranieri team than Seri.  It's not about Tony Khan-style number crunching.  It's about what you see on the field of play and clearly we see things differently.

Well they do, they prove your accusation wrong. You've completely ignored everything I've said and started talking about Vietto. You quite lierally stated that Seri doesn't win the ball back but the stats how that he does, bearing in mind you say TC can't tackle (true), you then say Seri is worse so I'm just point out that your statement is incorrect. Also you'd expect a winger to have more assists than a central midfielder who's been asked to play deeper than he normally does so not sure the relevance of that either.


Bassey the warrior

I predict that Seri will prove the very many doubters wrong, come the end of the season. Make no mistake he's a big talent. He's just not motivated, rightly or wrongly. It's Ranieri's job to get more from him.

I think he's more talented than Cairney to be honest.

Neutral Zone Ultra

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on November 22, 2018, 04:51:56 PM
I predict that Seri will prove the very many doubters wrong, come the end of the season. Make no mistake he's a big talent. He's just not motivated, rightly or wrongly. It's Ranieri's job to get more from him.

I think he's more talented than Cairney to be honest.
Agree, I'm hoping that Ranieri can work his man managing magic on him because I think we'll have a properly good player on our hands. As for Cairney, I think he has been getting off extremely lightly this season given how much stick Seri's been getting.

Porthogs FC

If we see Vietto as industrious, and the OP has mentioned 4-2-3 -1, might we see this?
Rico
FM - Odoi - Mawson - Bryan
Chambers - Seri
Cairney - Vietto - Sess
Mitro


Neil D

Quote from: Deeping_white on November 22, 2018, 04:48:35 PM

Well they do, they prove your accusation wrong. You've completely ignored everything I've said and started talking about Vietto. You quite lierally stated that Seri doesn't win the ball back but the stats how that he does, bearing in mind you say TC can't tackle (true), you then say Seri is worse so I'm just point out that your statement is incorrect. Also you'd expect a winger to have more assists than a central midfielder who's been asked to play deeper than he normally does so not sure the relevance of that either.
I'm not sure why I started talking about Vietto either. 

filham

A lot of speculation just now on how Raneiri will set up the team and the tactics he will employ, I just can't wait to see how it all turns out.
In particular I hope he can get Seri, Schurrle, Vietto, Anguissi and Mawson playing well and justifying the huge sums we paid to get them to the Cottage.