Wing backs

[hopper]

I know there's a lot of issues with the team at the moment, but does anyone else feel that this is the most glaring error on our team right now?

I can't tell you quite what the matter is with this position but the ineptitude is beyond imagination. Watch West Ham's second goal, Joe Bryan is literally on the right side of the pitch - almost in a DM position. What on earth is he doing over there?

For the first goal Odoi makes a hash of a challenge presenting them all the time in the world to pick a pass, similarly United exploited our right hand side.

Also recalling back to the Cardiff match, for one of their goals Chambers totally abandons his side leaving them with an easy finish. Similar Brighton game.

How simple can it be to get our wingbacks to stay on their side of the pitch. Would be embarrassing at schoolboy level, and makes our team completely indefensible right now, and perhaps the most worrying sign of Ranieri era is that this has happened 4 games in, when improving our shape should be absolutely key.

[alfie]

I know there's a lot of issues with the team at the moment, but does anyone else feel that this is the most glaring error on our team right now?

I can't tell you quite what the matter is with this position but the ineptitude is beyond imagination. Watch West Ham's second goal, Joe Bryan is literally on the right side of the pitch - almost in a DM position. What on earth is he doing over there?

For the first goal Odoi makes a hash of a challenge presenting them all the time in the world to pick a pass, similarly United exploited our right hand side.

Also recalling back to the Cardiff match, for one of their goals Chambers totally abandons his side leaving them with an easy finish. Similar Brighton game.

How simple can it be to get our wingbacks to stay on their side of the pitch. Would be embarrassing at schoolboy level, and makes our team completely indefensible right now, and perhaps the most worrying sign of Ranieri era is that this has happened 4 games in, when improving our shape should be absolutely key.

Or instead of continually blaming the defence, how about our forwards continuing to miss chances every game, if they had done their jobs maybe we might have won couple of games.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Until our goals against column dries up, we are never going to beat a carpet let alone another football team.
Claudio and his coaches have to work overtime with the whole team all through the week to give us the best chance of keeping a clean sheet.

[RaySmith]

We should defend as a team, with players providing cover at the back for those caught out of position, and to make sure all attackers are marked and closed down.

I'm sure the manager is dealing with this in training.

[hovewhite]

We should defend as a team, with players providing cover at the back for those caught out of position, and to make sure all attackers are marked and closed down.

I'm sure the manager is dealing with this in training.

Claudio said when he came in we have to defend as a team,we seem to have gone back to before he came in whereby players go where they want and we don't have a shape of players playing in there positions.

[toshes mate]

One of the things I had not seen under Ranieri is the 'genuine improvement' others have said on here.  But Saturday's game did, for me, have some pluses in that respect during the first half.  Jokanovic's reasons for possession based football was that youi cannot be hurt by the opposition when you have the ball.  That also means that provided you do not give the ball away the opponet cannot counter attack.  Therefore goal kicks, free kicks and throw ins are better than losing the ball in open play, being exposed to a swift break and too often conceding.  Ranieri's philosophy seems more about holding shape to mark the areas where breaks come from, but is hampered by the changes made to personnel for whatever reasons (a situation Jokanovic also had to endure).     

The first goal against WHU was not helped by the unfortunate bounce from Odoi's challenge, but the real damage came from failing to track the runs from central midfield after any cutback.  The second goal was two defenders going after the same man leaving another WHU player completely unmarked.  That has been too familiar this season.   When the defence was tightened for the second half on Saturday, attack became more difficult to achieve and we laboured to find the gaps to exploit.  WHU did not have to cope with so many swift counters from us.  That is just two of Ranieri's methods of playing the game on show.  They didn't work on Saturday but they may work much sooner than we think if the team continues to work at getting them to be more fluid in attack and more solid in defence.  A part of that is knowing where team mates will be at any given moments.  That takes time to achieve under any manager but, perhaps, and just perhaps, it is coming good.  Patience was the virtue chucked away a short while back.  Let's wait and see if we do better next weekend.

[hopper]

I know there's a lot of issues with the team at the moment, but does anyone else feel that this is the most glaring error on our team right now?

I can't tell you quite what the matter is with this position but the ineptitude is beyond imagination. Watch West Ham's second goal, Joe Bryan is literally on the right side of the pitch - almost in a DM position. What on earth is he doing over there?

For the first goal Odoi makes a hash of a challenge presenting them all the time in the world to pick a pass, similarly United exploited our right hand side.

Also recalling back to the Cardiff match, for one of their goals Chambers totally abandons his side leaving them with an easy finish. Similar Brighton game.

How simple can it be to get our wingbacks to stay on their side of the pitch. Would be embarrassing at schoolboy level, and makes our team completely indefensible right now, and perhaps the most worrying sign of Ranieri era is that this has happened 4 games in, when improving our shape should be absolutely key.

Or instead of continually blaming the defence, how about our forwards continuing to miss chances every game, if they had done their jobs maybe we might have won couple of games.

We are amongst the higher scorers of the bottom 7, whilst we have conceded 9 more than anyone else in the league. Noticed wing backs are a big issue hence the post, though if you want to create one to discuss finishing please go ahead Alfie.

[hopper]

Here's Joe Bryan's position leaving Antonio free. Far too easy, under Roy our players stuck firmly to their roles which made them so hard to beat.

[Dodger53]

We should defend as a team, with players providing cover at the back for those caught out of position, and to make sure all attackers are marked and closed down.

I'm sure the manager is dealing with this in training.

Claudio said when he came in we have to defend as a team,we seem to have gone back to before he came in whereby players go where they want and we don't have a shape of players playing in there positions.

They managed to up their game for a couple of matches but their underlying quality (lack of) shines through.

[Twig]

Here's Joe Bryan's position leaving Antonio free. Far too easy, under Roy our players stuck firmly to their roles which made them so hard to beat.

Exactly

[the nutflush]

Fast forward a few seconds.  Watch Schurrle fail to lend any defensive support.  He's allergic to defending.

[hopper]

Fast forward a few seconds.  Watch Schurrle fail to lend any defensive support.  He's allergic to defending.

Yeah, agreed Schurrle really needs to make an rfrott to help out at the back. We need everyone pulling together both ends of the pitch.

[filham]

We have conceded a good few goals this season where we have left oceans of room on the flanks for pacey attackers to exploit. Yes our wing halves never seem to have an eye on defence when our full backs have committed themselves to attack.

[NewYorkYank]

I completely agree.  I have noted on some other threads, for all the stick directed at Seri, Schurrle, and Anguissa (some of it well deserved), the far greater problem has been  the play of our fullbacks.  Brits have a tendency to overuse the phrase "not Premier League quality," but it is apt in this instance. To spend 100 million yet start the season with two Championship caliber fullbacks was criminal.  Ignoring the cost of these players, Seri is not a step down from Johansen, Schurrle is not a step down from Piazon, and Anguissa is, at least, not a big step down from McDonald.  Christie and Bryan are huge steps down from Fredericks and Targett.  Fredericks was a huge part of Fulham's offense last season, and his offense has not been replaced.  And to the poster who was unimpressed with Targett against Arsenal, his one cross to Ings was better than any that have been delivered by a Fulham fullback all season.

[alfie]

One of the things I had not seen under Ranieri is the 'genuine improvement' others have said on here.  But Saturday's game did, for me, have some pluses in that respect during the first half.  Jokanovic's reasons for possession based football was that youi cannot be hurt by the opposition when you have the ball.  That also means that provided you do not give the ball away the opponet cannot counter attack.  Therefore goal kicks, free kicks and throw ins are better than losing the ball in open play, being exposed to a swift break and too often conceding.  Ranieri's philosophy seems more about holding shape to mark the areas where breaks come fromy, but is hampered by the changes made to personnel for whatever reasons (a situation Jokanovic also had to endure).     

The first goal against WHU was not helped by the unfortunate bounce from Odoi's challenge, but the real damage came from failing to track the runs from central midfield after any cutback.  The second goal was two defenders going after the same man leaving another WHU player completely unmarked.  That has been too familiar this season.   When the defence was tightened for the second half on Saturday, attack became more difficult to achieve and we laboured to find the gaps to exploit.  WHU did not have to cope with so many swift counters from us.  That is just two of Ranieri's methods of playing the game on show.  They didn't work on Saturday but they may work much sooner than we think if the team continues to work at getting them to be more fluid in attack and more solid in defence.  A part of that is knowing where team mates will be at any given moments.  That takes time to achieve under any manager but, perhaps, and just perhaps, it is coming good.  Patience was the virtue chucked away a short while back.  Let's wait and see if we do better next weekend.

I like that

[Nero]

Think it needs to be a 4 4 1 1 or 4 4 2 and defenders told just defend dont go bombing forward your job is to keep a clean sheet not to assist with goals. We have enough quality up the pitch that they should be able t do that themselves, if they cant, we draw 0-0 and get another point towards safety 

[Matt10]

I know there's a lot of issues with the team at the moment, but does anyone else feel that this is the most glaring error on our team right now?

I can't tell you quite what the matter is with this position but the ineptitude is beyond imagination. Watch West Ham's second goal, Joe Bryan is literally on the right side of the pitch - almost in a DM position. What on earth is he doing over there?

For the first goal Odoi makes a hash of a challenge presenting them all the time in the world to pick a pass, similarly United exploited our right hand side.

Also recalling back to the Cardiff match, for one of their goals Chambers totally abandons his side leaving them with an easy finish. Similar Brighton game.

How simple can it be to get our wingbacks to stay on their side of the pitch. Would be embarrassing at schoolboy level, and makes our team completely indefensible right now, and perhaps the most worrying sign of Ranieri era is that this has happened 4 games in, when improving our shape should be absolutely key.

Under Ranieri's system, our fullbacks play a game of opposites. In the attack, if Odoi stays wide, then Bryan tucks in the centre. There were several times in which Bryan stayed tucked in, including when he almost got on the end of Cairney's cross in the second half, and before that pressuring the middle of the pitch after Kamara's touch in the box.

In the goal, he's pressured centrally to allow the centre midfielders to drop back, then they shift to the ball - in this case far right and wide. Our centre midfielders cover the wings. Our wingers stay tucked in and track the outside fullback, which is why Schurrle is watching Zabaleta.

What caused the calamity was Mawson allowing Chicarito behind him, which forced Ream to pick him up instead. Mawson, as good as he's been, just reacted one split second too late. Ream was forced to leave Antonio, and the end is history.

Unlike last year, our fullbacks do not overlap the outside mid/winger any longer, because our wingers tuck in much more, and instead our centre mids go out wide, much how they do defensively. I liked that Bryan brought a lot more mobility in the centre of the park, however, I do feel he tucked in too much and too high as there was no threat if Seri and Chambers had stepped up. However, you can't fault the guy for listening to the manager and trying his best. If Mawson stays goalside with Chicarito, there's no issue, but same can be said if Odoi had properly stepped up as soon as Anderson took his heavy touch.

Between the two, I'd much rather keep Bryan and replace Odoi. Too many switched off moments from him.

[The Rational Fan]

I completely agree.  I have noted on some other threads, for all the stick directed at Seri, Schurrle, and Anguissa (some of it well deserved), the far greater problem has been  the play of our fullbacks.  Brits have a tendency to overuse the phrase "not Premier League quality," but it is apt in this instance. To spend 100 million yet start the season with two Championship caliber fullbacks was criminal.  Ignoring the cost of these players, Seri is not a step down from Johansen, Schurrle is not a step down from Piazon, and Anguissa is, at least, not a big step down from McDonald.  Christie and Bryan are huge steps down from Fredericks and Targett.  Fredericks was a huge part of Fulham's offense last season, and his offense has not been replaced.  And to the poster who was unimpressed with Targett against Arsenal, his one cross to Ings was better than any that have been delivered by a Fulham fullback all season.

Good Wing-Backs make every player on the field look better, preventing wide attacks and increasing passing options.

Would anyone be surprised if Fulham's central midfielders passing became sublime with the options below?

                                      Rico
                           Mawson      MLM

                           Anguissa     Seri

Clyne/Tripper   Schurrle  Cairney  Sessegnon Targett/Young
                                      Mitro

[colinwhite]

The` wing back`notion is for me the problem .We need full backs . Not just players who bomb ,forward dont get back,and dont know how to defend the far post. and often poor delivery is the reason we can get hit on the counter to boot.