If/when we get relegated

[Woolly Mammoth]

If we go down, and I say 'IF'.
If the last six months are an example, now we have lost the manager that got us into the Premier League. Under the current regime, I cannot see us occupying a top six spot next season in any shape or form.

[FulhamStu]

The championship is where we belong, not the PL!! I'm more than proud to support us back in that league, top 6 next season bring it on!!

So, just where does FFC 'really' belong?  You say top 6 next season bring it on, and that would suggest a likely return to the PL.  But you say we belong in the Champ.  So which is it?  Just curious.

Nooo.. I am not saying we belong anywhere...  Of course the top division should always be the aim.   What I am saying is Championship football with a promotion plan towards the premier league is not the end of the world.

[toshes mate]

The championship is where we belong, not the PL!! I'm more than proud to support us back in that league, top 6 next season bring it on!!

So, just where does FFC 'really' belong?  You say top 6 next season bring it on, and that would suggest a likely return to the PL.  But you say we belong in the Champ.  So which is it?  Just curious.

Nooo.. I am not saying we belong anywhere...  Of course the top division should always be the aim.   What I am saying is Championship football with a promotion plan towards the premier league is not the end of the world.

I think it is, perhaps, the end of the world when, in January, we are talking about relegation not being the end of the world.  Even the sacking of Jokanovic signalled panic about some vague plan in the Khans' heads followed by their utterly amateurish knee jerk belief that the guy who fought to get us out of the Championship was hell bent on returning there fast.  And then the pathetic announcement of Ranieri which stemmed any chance of passionate revival from the outset.  Sorry but the Khans together are not good for this Club and one magical day at Wembley should never be the pinnacle of achievement for any football club. 

[Twig]

We will have a chance to win the league

We will win more often

We will lose less

It will be cheaper

More proper fans will be able to afford home games

Easier to take your children and friends

More games will be on a Saturday afternoon

There will be more games

We will not be cannon fodder for the big 6


Hmmmm, yet everyone is getting upset at all this and want us to spend a fortune so we can still have to pay crazy prices for tickets, continue to lose lots of games which are at difficult times to get too etc etc etc.

Funny ol game football !

As from a quote in a Fawlty Towers episode when Basil (Cleese) was screwing things up, per usual, from a guest:

"I'm NOT Satisfied!"

Sorry boys, I just can't go rose colored glasses over a drop.  Don't misunderstand, everyone cheers for and follows their favorite club in the way they choose, and that's all good.  But for me, a drop will be very disappointing after a terrific promotion campaign.  I've seen much commentary about how life in the Champ is even preferred for some fans, ie lower tix prices, seat availability, competition and competitive matches that finds FFC in a better position to win matches, etc.  I just can't buy into that.  I should think that the goal of any athlete/team/fan is to win, and to win at the highest competitive levels as possible.  I know it looks like we're going down, but I still would like to see FFC survive.  As difficult as life is in PL, I prefer to see FFC in this league as frequent as possible.

COYW!!!!

Exactly

[nose returns]

The championship is where we belong, not the PL!! I'm more than proud to support us back in that league, top 6 next season bring it on!!

So, just where does FFC 'really' belong?  You say top 6 next season bring it on, and that would suggest a likely return to the PL.  But you say we belong in the Champ.  So which is it?  Just curious.

i think we knew in september that with this squad we were not going to be anywhere other than botom 6, unfortunately it has just gonne from bad to worse.


Nooo.. I am not saying we belong anywhere...  Of course the top division should always be the aim.   What I am saying is Championship football with a promotion plan towards the premier league is not the end of the world.

I think it is, perhaps, the end of the world when, in January, we are talking about relegation not being the end of the world.  Even the sacking of Jokanovic signalled panic about some vague plan in the Khans' heads followed by their utterly amateurish knee jerk belief that the guy who fought to get us out of the Championship was hell bent on returning there fast.  And then the pathetic announcement of Ranieri which stemmed any chance of passionate revival from the outset.  Sorry but the Khans together are not good for this Club and one magical day at Wembley should never be the pinnacle of achievement for any football club.

[filham]

Every effort should be made to avoid this relegation.
Remember in our whole history we have made only four promotions to the top flight, it is not easily achieved and it could mean a very long time out of the Premier League.

[ex-Pat]

IF,,,,,,,,We have to win at least 6 games from 15, we could only win 3 from 23, we are done.

[Facts Not Fiction]

It's a tough time to be a PL club. The league is probably at its strongest for many years. We cannot compete with mid table sides when it comes to results, so I am not too bothered about going down.

Top can play bottom in the Championship, and it's not out the question the bottom side winning. It's a more competitive league, where I hope we'll be much more competitive ourselves, and be more knowledgeable if we achieve promotion again.

[AnOldBrownie]

More proper fans will be able to afford home games

What's a proper fan?

[MJG]

More proper fans will be able to afford home games

What's a proper fan?

I do hate that term. If there were so  many 'proper' fans missing last time we were in the PL then somehow we lost 6k plus other fans when we went down. So how many then turned up in the championship who had missed out in PL. Last time.

[Fulham Tup North]

More proper fans will be able to afford home games

What's a proper fan?

Obviously one who can afford home games! 😅

[FulhamStu]

More proper fans will be able to afford home games

What's a proper fan?

I do hate that term. If there were so  many 'proper' fans missing last time we were in the PL then somehow we lost 6k plus other fans when we went down. So how many then turned up in the championship who had missed out in PL. Last time.

OK, badly worded...let me try again.

Long standing fans of Fulham football club, who can't afford to pay £50 for the cheep Seats would be more able to attend games for a lot less money.  Maybe other Fulham fans would be more able to bring their children etc etc etc.   The Premier League is a magnet for tourist fans.  When I went to the Man City v Fulham game, ther surrounding club shops were crammed with overseas visitors buying half and half scarves and many other souvenirs, nothing wrong with this before I get shouted down.  BUT...it seems that as long as we can fill the ground, it does not really matter, charge as much as you can get away with.   

In the championship, to fill the ground requires prices to be more affordable for less well of people.

Is that ok....?

[FulhamStu]

More proper fans will be able to afford home games

What's a proper fan?

I do hate that term. If there were so  many 'proper' fans missing last time we were in the PL then somehow we lost 6k plus other fans when we went down. So how many then turned up in the championship who had missed out in PL. Last time.

OK, badly worded...let me try again.

Long standing fans of Fulham football club, who can't afford to pay £50 for the cheep Seats would be more able to attend games for a lot less money.  Maybe other Fulham fans would be more able to bring their children etc etc etc.   The Premier League is a magnet for tourist fans.  When I went to the Man City v Fulham game, ther surrounding club shops were crammed with overseas visitors buying half and half scarves and many other souvenirs, nothing wrong with this before I get shouted down.  BUT...it seems that as long as we can fill the ground, it does not really matter, charge as much as you can get away with.   

In the championship, to fill the ground requires prices to be more affordable for less well of people.

Is that ok....?

Oh blimey, I have seen another error..so..not only long standing fans, but newer fans with not a lot of money, who want to watch Fulham, and then become long standing fans..as opposed seeing a game and getting in their plane back to the good ol US of A or wherever they had come on vacation from who may or may not ever return to the Cottage.   Suspect I could be critised for saying that but hopefully you get the idea of where I am coming from.

Sorry...touched a nerve.

COYW

[RaySmith]

My Hammy End, restricted view seat , as an O65 Member - being a Member gives you £3 off -for Brighton tomorrow cost me £35, which is COMPARATIVELY cheap - though obviously doesn't match the  £30,  minus usually substantial over 65 reduction, that I get for away games.

But Fulham in the Champonship also seemed pricey to me and my pocket.
I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but yes, it would be good if football clubs catered for  the less well off and unwaged fans who may no longer be able to attend because of cost after a lifetime supporting the club, with substantial  discounts, but they don't , apart from Senior discounts,
and the whole game in this country is very market driven, and the market pays no heed to anything, or where fans come from, or if they are 'tourists',  either actual foreign visitors or occasional football attenders- 

certainly not long term  fan loyalty, apart from the points system, which means you have to have  been wealthy enough to go to a lot of games in very recent seasons, so your following Fulham in the 60's or Div 3, even last time we were in the Prem doesn't count  - but if enough  people stopped going to games , the market dictates prices wil drop.

If we do go down prices will go down too, but maybe not by that much, unless we go down again - then see them drop, as fans  stop going.

[MJG]

Stuart, we read a lot about real fans missing out to due to cost and everything else, but i do wonder how many are really being talked about?

If we take 2012-13 as the peak of our average attendance last time we were in the PL it was 25,394 (98.8% capacity)
Our average over the 4 years in the Championship was 18,758 (72.98%) and even last season was below 20K.
People talk about the tourist (which yes there are) fans. Do they mean the one off one game in town I'll take it in type person, or the one who buys a ST for the season just because we are in the PL?

We had those last time and we saw as I say over 6K drop in attendance. Given what you are saying then last time we went down we must have had some of the 'proper' fans come back into the championship years watching us? In fact did we actually lose say 7K fans from the PL? And for those who joined us in the championship after missing out in the last few PL years, how many stayed on this season? They all would have had a chance to get a ST if they had one last year.

We will go down and lose fans (happens at almost every club), how many of the 'proper' fans will then come back who missed out this year?

For the record our average this season is 24,252. Not a bad return to where we were at turn of the decade given the 4 years out.


Looking back in 1996 at our lowest league point we had 4,183 average gates. Are all the ones who came later not proper fans?

I know people will get priced out, it has always happened. If the draw to watch lower league football was all about price then why don't they all get massive gates? Why didn't our gates in the championship reach 25K? We had lower prices than they would have been in the PL.

Id argue that while the casual fan who doesn't have a ST but likes to take in a few games a season is paying top price (one which is 5 years after we were last here about £5-£10 more) there are not thousands of fans who can't get into Fulham because of it.

Should prices be cheaper? yes of course they should. But it a case of supply and demand. and demand at the moment is at 94% capacity with a team that is getting the worst results in the last 18 seasons.
If we dropped prices a fiver would that make it 95%? drop it a tenner 97%, drop it to £30 and its 100%. The arguments would almost be that it's a closed shop, where do we get new fans from?, how do we get them in to a ground that can't fit anymore? Where is the next generation?
Would the 'proper' fans get in?

if we dropped prices to say £30 next season in the championship does anyone really believe we would get 25K every game so the 'proper' fan could get in? Or would they turn out to just be fans wanting to take in a game of football in London?

[FulhamStu]

Stuart, we read a lot about real fans missing out to due to cost and everything else, but i do wonder how many are really being talked about?

If we take 2012-13 as the peak of our average attendance last time we were in the PL it was 25,394 (98.8% capacity)
Our average over the 4 years in the Championship was 18,758 (72.98%) and even last season was below 20K.
People talk about the tourist (which yes there are) fans. Do they mean the one off one game in town I'll take it in type person, or the one who buys a ST for the season just because we are in the PL?

We had those last time and we saw as I say over 6K drop in attendance. Given what you are saying then last time we went down we must have had some of the 'proper' fans come back into the championship years watching us? In fact did we actually lose say 7K fans from the PL? And for those who joined us in the championship after missing out in the last few PL years, how many stayed on this season? They all would have had a chance to get a ST if they had one last year.

We will go down and lose fans (happens at almost every club), how many of the 'proper' fans will then come back who missed out this year?

For the record our average this season is 24,252. Not a bad return to where we were at turn of the decade given the 4 years out.


Looking back in 1996 at our lowest league point we had 4,183 average gates. Are all the ones who came later not proper fans?

I know people will get priced out, it has always happened. If the draw to watch lower league football was all about price then why don't they all get massive gates? Why didn't our gates in the championship reach 25K? We had lower prices than they would have been in the PL.

Id argue that while the casual fan who doesn't have a ST but likes to take in a few games a season is paying top price (one which is 5 years after we were last here about £5-£10 more) there are not thousands of fans who can't get into Fulham because of it.

Should prices be cheaper? yes of course they should. But it a case of supply and demand. and demand at the moment is at 94% capacity with a team that is getting the worst results in the last 18 seasons.
If we dropped prices a fiver would that make it 95%? drop it a tenner 97%, drop it to £30 and its 100%. The arguments would almost be that it's a closed shop, where do we get new fans from?, how do we get them in to a ground that can't fit anymore? Where is the next generation?
Would the 'proper' fans get in?

if we dropped prices to say £30 next season in the championship does anyone really believe we would get 25K every game so the 'proper' fan could get in? Or would they turn out to just be fans wanting to take in a game of football in London?

I have acknowledged that the term proper fans is not good.

I know many times when I have been sat in the Hammersmith end in our Premiership years there are loads of visitors.  There was a line a young ladies behind me, all American spent most of the game on their phones and talking about tv programs.

I am also not saying having full grounds is a bad thing, I am merely pointing out that a benefit from relegation is less expensive tickets.

Listen, some people have taken my post the wrong way...often happens !    What I am doing is pointing out some benefits we are likely to gain from relegation..BUT....  I DO NOT WANT US TO BE RELEGATED.

[toshes mate]

Surely proper football fans are people who love football regardless of who they support and whether or not they can afford to pay the exorbitant prices charged for the upper echelons of the professional game.  The whole football supporter profile map has been savaged and ravaged by politically driven agendas lobbied by the serial offenders, both within the game and within the media, who wished to monopolise the filthy lucre via their sheer greed.  The business model doesn't care about the person passing through the turnstile gates of clubs outside of the big names only about the big money generated by betting and advertising via media coverage.  It is greed that has dominated the game for a long time culminating in the PL and the sudden departure of true competition from the top tier as big business ventures become too big to fail. 

Football, outside of its grass roots, has simply forgotten what true support means like most other sports more conerned with revenue and sales than it ever is about preserving whatever it was that made the sport popular enough to make the risk of alienating 'live' supporting fans worth it.   The match ticket is only a part of the problem when travel costs, refreshment and time are also major factors when you do not have disposible income of that order.  I much preferred football when you could buy a ticket on the day as a casual observer because that is how I became a football fan in the first place.  If I was the same age now as I was when I started regularly attending Craven Cottage I would never, ever be able to afford the cost because I was simply a young schoolkid with pocket money and the choice of walking to Craven Cottage on a Saturday afternoon, buying a programme, and paying my gate money.  Football was cheap those days and now, like a lot of things, it has gone to the other extreme, which, in my opinion, is a big, big, mistake.  Would the Khans subsidise schoolkids like me, on their own, but willing to support what was one of my local football clubs simply because I loved football and fell in love with FFC, but didn't have well off family?

[Woolly Mammoth]

Surely proper football fans are people who love football regardless of who they support and whether or not they can afford to pay the exorbitant prices charged for the upper echelons of the professional game.  The whole football supporter profile map has been savaged and ravaged by politically driven agendas lobbied by the serial offenders, both within the game and within the media, who wished to monopolise the filthy lucre via their sheer greed.  The business model doesn't care about the person passing through the turnstile gates of clubs outside of the big names only about the big money generated by betting and advertising via media coverage.  It is greed that has dominated the game for a long time culminating in the PL and the sudden departure of true competition from the top tier as big business ventures become too big to fail. 

Football, outside of its grass roots, has simply forgotten what true support means like most other sports more conerned with revenue and sales than it ever is about preserving whatever it was that made the sport popular enough to make the risk of alienating 'live' supporting fans worth it.   The match ticket is only a part of the problem when travel costs, refreshment and time are also major factors when you do not have disposible income of that order.  I much preferred football when you could buy a ticket on the day as a casual observer because that is how I became a football fan in the first place.  If I was the same age now as I was when I started regularly attending Craven Cottage I would never, ever be able to afford the cost because I was simply a young schoolkid with pocket money and the choice of walking to Craven Cottage on a Saturday afternoon, buying a programme, and paying my gate money.  Football was cheap those days and now, like a lot of things, it has gone to the other extreme, which, in my opinion, is a big, big, mistake.  Would the Khans subsidise schoolkids like me, on their own, but willing to support what was one of my local football clubs simply because I loved football and fell in love with FFC, but didn't have well off family?

Excellent post, and so very true.

[Dixie]

Surely proper football fans are people who love football regardless of who they support and whether or not they can afford to pay the exorbitant prices charged for the upper echelons of the professional game.  The whole football supporter profile map has been savaged and ravaged by politically driven agendas lobbied by the serial offenders, both within the game and within the media, who wished to monopolise the filthy lucre via their sheer greed.  The business model doesn't care about the person passing through the turnstile gates of clubs outside of the big names only about the big money generated by betting and advertising via media coverage.  It is greed that has dominated the game for a long time culminating in the PL and the sudden departure of true competition from the top tier as big business ventures become too big to fail. 

Football, outside of its grass roots, has simply forgotten what true support means like most other sports more conerned with revenue and sales than it ever is about preserving whatever it was that made the sport popular enough to make the risk of alienating 'live' supporting fans worth it.   The match ticket is only a part of the problem when travel costs, refreshment and time are also major factors when you do not have disposible income of that order.  I much preferred football when you could buy a ticket on the day as a casual observer because that is how I became a football fan in the first place.  If I was the same age now as I was when I started regularly attending Craven Cottage I would never, ever be able to afford the cost because I was simply a young schoolkid with pocket money and the choice of walking to Craven Cottage on a Saturday afternoon, buying a programme, and paying my gate money.  Football was cheap those days and now, like a lot of things, it has gone to the other extreme, which, in my opinion, is a big, big, mistake.  Would the Khans subsidise schoolkids like me, on their own, but willing to support what was one of my local football clubs simply because I loved football and fell in love with FFC, but didn't have well off family?

Excellent post, and so very true.

Agreed!
I used to get my paper round money on the saturday morning - £9 which was enough for the bus fare, McDonalds lunch, programme and entry.
I wonder what a paper round earns per week these days?!