i don't normally talk about roy, but has he lost it?

[The Equalizer]

I find a couple of things very sad:

1. Seeing Roy seemingly losing his marbles at Liverpool.

2. The amount of vitriol directed at him from Fulham fans.

As far as I'm concerned, he is the GREATEST manager that Fulham have ever had. He gave us nearly three years of unadulterated joy on the pitch and we achieved so much in that time, not least garnering the support of most football supporters in the country when we reached the European final.
Fine, I was gutted when he left, but some of the things directed at him are completely unwarranted. He did what any of us would do, go for an opportunity which he believed would be career progression. There's nothing wrong with having some ambition, however misguided that ambition may have been in hindsight.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I find this whole situation sad and depressing.

Roy was a fantastic manager who many now appear happy to throw under the bus. He had 3 excellent years here before going to join a bigger club in a problem situation. At the time I was gutted, but I have never wished him ill.

The other sad thing is that his achievements with us will now be forever overshadowed by his problems with Lpool and Blackburn. He has become another 'not good enough to manage a big team' guy (which is rubbish).

If (when) he gets fired, I hope whoever replaces him does even worse, especially if it is that idiot Dalgleish, just so those whining scousers shut up and accept that they are now a mid table team.

As for Napoli, it will be interesting to watch the Ultra's tonight against the people they completely blame for Heysel. That said, dont be suprised to see a 'Thankyou for Heysel' banner as everyone in Italy hates Juventus.

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

What we want from a manager is what we give every week and something they can never give-total undieing loyalty.We want the manger of our club to love the club as much as we do,that can never happen because they are ,ultimately, still employies of the club.
The thing that upsets me,is Roy leaving didn't make any sense to alot of the fans,it still doesn't and never will.You could argue that he could not take us futher,I diasgree strongly, and that's the rub,he saw it as an end,we saw it as a begining.
As fans we invest so much in this club of ours,money ,time,love and emotion and we want our managers to do the same,we feel used if "our"manager seems to drop us at the first chance he gets.I posted at the time that when Liverpool came sniffing that i felt like"the plain girl at the bar when the pole dancers have just walked in"and I still do.
Don't have ago at us in raising a rye smile at his misfortune as he brought it on himself,and please don't ask us to show him any loyalty,after all he didn't show us any,did he?

[TonyGilroy]

The other sad thing is that his achievements with us will now be forever overshadowed by his problems with Lpool and Blackburn. He has become another 'not good enough to manage a big team' guy (which is rubbish).

But is it rubbish? The way it's working out at Liverpool suggests it's the truth. If so then the key problem is that at 62 Hodgson did not have the self knowledge to realise his limitations.

As I get older (currently 60) I get less cocky. I'm more aware of what I can do well but more importantly that I'm better off not trying to overreach my abilities.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

The other sad thing is that his achievements with us will now be forever overshadowed by his problems with Lpool and Blackburn. He has become another 'not good enough to manage a big team' guy (which is rubbish).

But is it rubbish? The way it's working out at Liverpool suggests it's the truth. If so then the key problem is that at 62 Hodgson did not have the self knowledge to realise his limitations.

As I get older (currently 60) I get less cocky. I'm more aware of what I can do well but more importantly that I'm better off not trying to overreach my abilities.

Why has he suddenly turned from excellent coach to totally hopeless overnight? It cannot just be the fact that he is managing liverpool. If they have a half decent squad then surely it would be easier to manage them than it is to manage Fulham?

[TonyGilroy]

It's not just about coaching though. He's a manager and that involves man management.

At big clubs there are players with big egos and massive wealth, supporters who expect a manager to meet their expectations and have a persona that they feel matches their club and owners for whom only success will do.

Hodgson is failing badly at Liverpool as a manager. As a coach the ability to drill players into an effective unit requires that the players accept his methods and leadership. That needs respect which Hodgson has not managed to earn at Liverpool.

Arguably the problem is that Hodgson knows he's a good coach (which he is) and assumed that that was enough to be a successful big club manager.

Wrong.

[LBNo11]

...AlFayedsChequebook, you ask "Why has he suddenly turned from excellent coach to totally hopeless overnight? It cannot just be the fact that he is managing liverpool. If they have a half decent squad then surely it would be easier to manage them than it is to manage Fulham?

I beleive the problem is that the Liverpool players are not enamoured with the tried and tested style of play that our former manager employs, and find it too negative for their perception of their abilities. They probably don't want to play as a defensive unit from the front to middle to back.

The Fulham players had no such high illusions and were prepared to ALL work as a unit to survive relegation, and to take us to heights such as the Europa campaign, a campaign that went further than Hodgson thought possible, a huge testament to the team spirit of the Fulham players and their acceptance of their abilities and their team ethic.

That is why I think that the Liverpool squad are not easier to manage than Fulham...

[ImperialWhite]

I beleive the problem is that the Liverpool players are not enamoured with the tried and tested style of play that our former manager employs, and find it too negative for their perception of their abilities. They probably don't want to play as a defensive unit from the front to middle to back.

The Fulham players had no such high illusions and were prepared to ALL work as a unit to survive relegation, and to take us to heights such as the Europa campaign, a campaign that went further than Hodgson thought possible, a huge testament to the team spirit of the Fulham players and their acceptance of their abilities and their team ethic.

Yes, remember Simon Davies saying how bloody dull the coaching style was? I suspect that its easier to persuade players fearing relegation than the inflated ego 'stars' of Liverpool to train like this.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

So ultimately it is not Roy's fault but the fact that none of the players (esp Torres) have bought into what he is trying to do?

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

Roy fitted Fulham,Fulham fitted Roy-it's like we were MADE for each other,this is why alot of us couldn't understand,and never will, why he left us for that lot :035:

[ImperialWhite]

So ultimately it is not Roy's fault but the fact that none of the players (esp Torres) have bought into what he is trying to do?

Well, it's Roy's job to manage players, so I suppose it is technically his fault. But I think that's the explanation for the poor results, at least.

[Lighthouse]

There is no shock here. Roy is good at a set way of playing,drilling it into good players and making them better. However telling players that think they only have to turn up what to do was never going to work. Buying Konk was never going to work.

Sometimes we believe it when people tell us we are too good for this place. As has already been stated, it is a shame Roy fell for it. But he left Fulham at the right time. He just joined Liverpool at the wrong one.

[Jimpav]

Roy had taken us beyond our wildest dreams. Even the hardest bitten cynic could not dispute that.

He gave us some memorable results along the way, signed some of our best players in recent history and turned a squad of misfits and strugglers into a force to be reckoned with.

You may have also forgotten that those away wins at Reading, City and Pompey in 2008 or the 7th place finish that saw us beat Spurs, Citeh, United, Arsenal, Liverpool amongst others - oh and we came within 2 minutes of penalties at a European final.

Season ticket sales are up, the ground is full for nearly every home match, we are being linked with better players each season and now we have attracted a replacement manager that was trusted with an unlimited transfer kitty for a side on the verge of winning the league.

We knew he was a nomad - yet we got three very good years of service out of him. The Europa final was his send off and shoudl have been no surprise that he was leaving - we just chose to ignore the whispers. If it wasn't for the world cup he would have no doubt left sooner - who could blame him for coveting the England job?

Hodgsons legacy has been absolutely huge for this club yet the bitternes and ungratefulness of some is embarrassing. If I saw Hodgson in the street I would bow down to him. The man is an absolute legend.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Roy had taken us beyond our wildest dreams. Even the hardest bitten cynic could not dispute that.

He gave us some memorable results along the way, signed some of our best players in recent history and turned a squad of misfits and strugglers into a force to be reckoned with.

You may have also forgotten that those away wins at Reading, City and Pompey in 2008 or the 7th place finish that saw us beat Spurs, Citeh, United, Arsenal, Liverpool amongst others - oh and we came within 2 minutes of penalties at a European final.

Season ticket sales are up, the ground is full for nearly every home match, we are being linked with better players each season and now we have attracted a replacement manager that was trusted with an unlimited transfer kitty for a side on the verge of winning the league.

We knew he was a nomad - yet we got three very good years of service out of him. The Europa final was his send off and shoudl have been no surprise that he was leaving - we just chose to ignore the whispers. If it wasn't for the world cup he would have no doubt left sooner - who could blame him for coveting the England job?

Hodgsons legacy has been absolutely huge for this club yet the bitternes and ungratefulness of some is embarrassing. If I saw Hodgson in the street I would bow down to him. The man is an absolute legend.

Well said.

[Lighthouse]

Before we go too much to one side. Roy took over at a time when we were not in the relegatiuon but heading there. He took us into the bottom three but we were saved by the wonderful last games. Roy became our most succesful manager of that there is no doubt.

But the bad points of his managerial stay with us cannot be ignored. Playing the same players, never changing tactics until injury forced his hand. Never playing subs and leaving a very old squad. Roy played with 11 players behind the ball and we were dull at time s to watch. Despite our home form and gate, away we take only the brave and the foolish. This is because we never bothered to try and score.

The good points of Roy are not the problem. His bad points are what are causing the trouble at Liverpool. Roy plays to a set pattern. If it doesn't work he has no plan B.

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Before we go too much to one side. Roy took over at a time when we were not in the relegatiuon but heading there. He took us into the bottom three but we were saved by the wonderful last games. Roy became our most succesful manager of that there is no doubt.

But the bad points of his managerial stay with us cannot be ignored. Playing the same players, never changing tactics until injury forced his hand. Never playing subs and leaving a very old squad. Roy played with 11 players behind the ball and we were dull at time s to watch. Despite our home form and gate, away we take only the brave and the foolish. This is because we never bothered to try and score.

The good points of Roy are not the problem. His bad points are what are causing the trouble at Liverpool. Roy plays to a set pattern. If it doesn't work he has no plan B.

See I think you have gone completely the other way there. All this 'negative an boring' stuff is now being thrown at Roy's reign which is simply not true. Yes we were a defensive side but 'negative and boring' is a tired cliche for Italian football by people who know no better.

Our away form has always been a problem and his substitutions were often late, but whatever he did obviously worked wonders.

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

the guy had faults,yes we had our best ever season under him but the guy had faults and some people on here do think he was some sort of Messiah figue.

He was good at taking "average"players,moulding them into a unit and getting them to play a certain way which could, and was alot of the time, effective.There was no "plan B" or plan for playing away-these are the facts!
Liverpool are a team full of rich talented players who will not be shackled by a top down defensive system,these players believe themselves to be above the level of Fulham,are mostly internationals with big ego's and will not put "the hard yards" in.
We had a team of 11 who played like a team,fought for the team,who "may" be less skillfull than Liverpool,but they played with more fight and more heart and that's what Roy works best with,underdogs, and that's why the Liverpool adventure will and has failed

[finnster01]

Lets take a step back for a moment. Roy did wonders for Fulham. Granted. Roy never had a plan B. Granted. Roy never knew how to use a sub. Granted.

What irks me the most however is the way he left. And I don't automatically buy the "we would all have done the same and jumped on the opportunity". I once had a very skillful project manager working for me. He was one of the best in my company. He made good money, got a lot of respect from the other employees etc. He was also very "anal" in just sticking to one way of doing things and wasn't the best if he was hit with bad things that was not in his control (such as a bank merging with another midway through a big project). In any event, one day he just picked up his bags and left out of the blue. He gave me no warning, no real reason other than he wanted to join a very large bank. Didn't tell anyone else in his project team and left them to dry in the middle of the project.  It wasn't a pay issue as I bluntly told him what would it cost me to have him stay on etc. He never gave me a chance. We didn't speak with each other for several years. I was very upset because I'd given him more than anybody and then some. I was willing to go even further. To cut a long story short, his big bank career didn't last very long. We are now good friends and he has eventually landed well on his feet at another company but it took him a long time and a lot of pain to get there.

Then I have another manager who has worked for me for years. He has had numerous opportunities to go somewhere else. In fact, nearly every project he works on the client wants to hire him but he has decided to stay put. Why? Because he knows his environment. He knows he will be well looked after. He can be a big fish in a small pond. He enjoys great respect from his team mates. And that my friends is exactly what Roy had but he gave it all away only to see his future in the Prem (not just Liverpool) most likely to come to a sudden end very quickly

[epsomraver]

Can't argue with that Mr Finn, but as you know some people cannot and will not accept their limitations, I have been in senior management in another life and seen people take jobs above their ability and then either work all hours to try and keep up or crack up and make them selves ill .I believe Roy believed all the hype the media lavished on him after the Europa final and that will prove to be his undoing