The Experimental Project of Fulham

[3rdgenfan]

The longer he's in charge of Operations at Fulham it proves Tony Khan is using Fulham as an experiment to promote his analytics company TruMedia

He has used the model at Jacksonville Jaguars and has had some success this year with them winning their division. This must have increased the value of both the Jaguars and TruMedia.

According to reports on Teamtalk he is now looking to Scotland for a manager who would fit this analytics model rather than a manager who would be in charge of recruitment and players

This is madness and when will he realise that solely using analytics does not work for football and the English leagues as it does for American Football. There are so many variables in the English game.

Players such as Lee Clark. Louis Saha. Luis Boa Morte and Steve Finnan were not signed by analytics but by good scouting. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold so this who we should be looking to sign rather than a manager prepared to promote analytics and try and prove TK right which will never work in our leagues.

The sooner he realises his project has failed and changes course the better.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-fulham-turn-to-scotland-in-search-for-next-boss

[The Old Count]

Doesn't appear to be working in American Football either with the Jags bottom of their group

[hovewhite]

Don't think we have a scouting system at 1st team level any more.

[Sting of the North]

The longer he's in charge of Operations at Fulham it proves Tony Khan is using Fulham as an experiment to promote his analytics company TruMedia

He has used the model at Jacksonville Jaguars and has had some success this year with them winning their division. This must have increased the value of both the Jaguars and TruMedia.

According to reports on Teamtalk he is now looking to Scotland for a manager who would fit this analytics model rather than a manager who would be in charge of recruitment and players

This is madness and when will he realise that solely using analytics does not work for football and the English leagues as it does for American Football. There are so many variables in the English game.

Players such as Lee Clark. Louis Saha. Luis Boa Morte and Steve Finnan were not signed by analytics but by good scouting. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold so this who we should be looking to sign rather than a manager prepared to promote analytics and try and prove TK right which will never work in our leagues.

The sooner he realises his project has failed and changes course the better.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-fulham-turn-to-scotland-in-search-for-next-boss

But we don't solely rely on analytics do we? At least not according to any information I have ever seen presented (that isn't from an angry fan). Or, if you know this to be true, can you please present some form of evidence?

It is possible to fail for many reasons, and usually there are many factors combined in producing results as bad as ours. Analytics may be one factor, but in my opinion surely not the only one.

[JHaynes Paperboy]

different scenario in American Football, don't the bottom side get first pick of the new draft players?

[3rdgenfan]

We can all see this isn't working but TK will not change his path as it would mean admitting failure and the failure of his company.

There are very few top class or suitable managers that would join us under the analytics system as it is their reputations as managers that would suffer and I don't blame them. Not looking good for a a replacement for CR

[3rdgenfan]

The longer he's in charge of Operations at Fulham it proves Tony Khan is using Fulham as an experiment to promote his analytics company TruMedia

He has used the model at Jacksonville Jaguars and has had some success this year with them winning their division. This must have increased the value of both the Jaguars and TruMedia.

According to reports on Teamtalk he is now looking to Scotland for a manager who would fit this analytics model rather than a manager who would be in charge of recruitment and players

This is madness and when will he realise that solely using analytics does not work for football and the English leagues as it does for American Football. There are so many variables in the English game.

Players such as Lee Clark. Louis Saha. Luis Boa Morte and Steve Finnan were not signed by analytics but by good scouting. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold so this who we should be looking to sign rather than a manager prepared to promote analytics and try and prove TK right which will never work in our leagues.

The sooner he realises his project has failed and changes course the better.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-fulham-turn-to-scotland-in-search-for-next-boss

But we don't solely rely on analytics do we? At least not according to any information I have ever seen presented (that isn't from an angry fan). Or, if you know this to be true, can you please present some form of evidence?

It is possible to fail for many reasons, and usually there are many factors combined in producing results as bad as ours. Analytics may be one factor, but in my opinion surely not the only one.

I think the "exclusive" report on TeamTalk, if it can be believed, points to TK wanting the next manager to fit his analytics profile

[grandad]

Of all the PL clubs, only Cardiff do not use the 2 ticked boxes in recruitment. We just do it worse than the others.

[The Rational Fan]

The FFC team of 2001/02 squad costs double this squad as a percentage of revenue and they will get less double the amount of points this team will get (provided FFC reaches 23 points). In terms of spending well, this squad is about even with that one just proving you cannot build a squad overnight (or even a year) with money and expect great results. Maybe going down and bouncing up was TK plan B at the start of the season, if it was and the plan B works it maybe pure genius.

[Sting of the North]

The longer he's in charge of Operations at Fulham it proves Tony Khan is using Fulham as an experiment to promote his analytics company TruMedia

He has used the model at Jacksonville Jaguars and has had some success this year with them winning their division. This must have increased the value of both the Jaguars and TruMedia.

According to reports on Teamtalk he is now looking to Scotland for a manager who would fit this analytics model rather than a manager who would be in charge of recruitment and players

This is madness and when will he realise that solely using analytics does not work for football and the English leagues as it does for American Football. There are so many variables in the English game.

Players such as Lee Clark. Louis Saha. Luis Boa Morte and Steve Finnan were not signed by analytics but by good scouting. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold so this who we should be looking to sign rather than a manager prepared to promote analytics and try and prove TK right which will never work in our leagues.

The sooner he realises his project has failed and changes course the better.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-fulham-turn-to-scotland-in-search-for-next-boss

But we don't solely rely on analytics do we? At least not according to any information I have ever seen presented (that isn't from an angry fan). Or, if you know this to be true, can you please present some form of evidence?

It is possible to fail for many reasons, and usually there are many factors combined in producing results as bad as ours. Analytics may be one factor, but in my opinion surely not the only one.

I think the "exclusive" report on TeamTalk, if it can be believed, points to TK wanting the next manager to fit his analytics profile

Ok. Even if true, still doesn't mean that we rely solely on analytics.

[Sting of the North]

The FFC team of 2001/02 squad costs double this squad as a percentage of revenue and will get double the amount of points. In terms of spending well, this squad is about even with that one just proving you cannot build a squad overnight (or even a year) with money and expect great results. If TK goes down with this squad and keeps almost all of them plus adds to it and we get promoted, the plan maybe pure genius.

Unless it was part of the plan to be non-competitive and get relegated, I feel that in any case the term "pure genius" is a tad too much even if the long run would prove this year would form a valuable part of the foundation of a successful PL team. However, I agree that it may not have been as bad as it looks. 

[toshes mate]

The bottom line of 'TruMedia' and other analytics is that everybody has access to the same data, the same social media networks covering individual and independent scouting, the same media coverage of games, and the same potential to construct almost infinite algorithms with which to manipulate all that information, good, bad and indifferent, to whatever degree they wish.  Baseball analytics started almost one hundred and seventy years ago, in 1850, with BoxScore, statistics meant to give baseball fans a feel of the game as it played out, without direct reporting of events in words.  Baseball with hitters and pitchers is like cricket which lends itself to the cricket scorecard idea of relaying a match as it is played out with batters and bowlers.  American football also lends itself to neatly packaged actions with lots of space between them, with players defined by the actions taking place on the pitch.

Football is largely continuous action with players, although largely defined by task and role, free to do whatever they have to do to win a game with defenders scoring goals and attackers clearing balls from their own goal line.  The main reporting stats for much of the last century was a report of the score at HT and FT, the goal scorers and the gate.  Fuller match reports would cover many games although comprehensive coverage has been increasingly focused on fewer and fewer teams, and lower leagues in the English pyramid have virtually disappeared from most coverage.

TK's commercial ventures are his own affair but I do believe FFC's Board should be questioning just how much time he has left to concentrate on FFC matters on a day to day basis seeing as he is in charge of quite a lot of the main activity of playing football.   Perhaps most people never miss him.       

[Penfold]

Of all the PL clubs, only Cardiff do not use the 2 ticked boxes in recruitment. We just do it worse than the others.

I don't really think we use two ticks. Slavisa regularly made a point he had little say.

The only tick that I reckon matters is that the player meets the stats test. If he doesn't, I reckon we don't sign him.

[ALG01]

If reports are to believed the key element of our transfer system is the analytics.
Personally I do not care how it is done but for 11 transfer windows in a row it has been a shambolic failure and TK has been in charge of it ior fundamental to it whether he had a relvavnt title or not all this time as far as I can see.

Choosing a manager on analytics is bizarre. Analytics is a good thing but a very secondary thing. I loathe what is happening at the club at the moment. The arrogance of the Khan's, the nepotism and the shocking US style PR.

Even SK, who I had respected, has now been caught by his own PR. Saying he would support the manager in the January transfer and then not supporting him at all has been quite a staggering kick in the teeth to long term season ticket holders, short term season ticket holders, long term supporters and recent arrival supporters alike, in short all of us that pay our money or have an interest in the club.

I was here for Clay and Bulstrode but we were vulnerable then. This is self inflicted madness from an owner that refuses to learn or is just indulging his offspring because he can. I hate the fact there are posters that defend this madness, or try to trip up ordinary mortals on the MB, by forensically picking up on a word out of place or a minor factual inaccuracy.

What is without doubt is the club is massively underachieving because we make the same errors over and over and have a transfer policy that is guaranteed to fail as evidenced by 11 successive flawed attempts.

If the Khan's want to make Fulham a success, and I no longer think that is the case, they would move TK sideways and keep him away from any team matter, and bring in top proffesionals to run the club such as MAF did with Kegan. I will not offer a name at this time because I have done it before. I do not want to have to watch League one football but at the moment that is more likely than a swift return. The fact we keep a joke manager just to save TK's face is grounds for a refund on our season tickets.... next season prices better be very reduced bsed on the dross offered this time.

Just my opinion.

[hovewhite]

ALG they won't be reducing prices,no chance!!

[MJG]

"Choosoa manager on analytics is bizarre"

Why is it?

Depends on the question you are looking to answer. Tell me ALG01(although your style is reminiscent of someone who left recently) how would you pick a manager without looking at any stats on them at all?

Of course you could pick someone who has no record... And I'm not against that... But if you are looking at someone who has previously managed you will look at their records.

You might want to know how many promotions they have had?
What their record is paying a particular type of football.
Their record of promoting youth.
Average age of lineups

Any number of stats and information to make a choice.

Just by picking a a manger who has a 41% win record for example is a use of stats.

But if course it doesn't fit agendas does it to actually admit its required. Stats bad is the message.

[Oakeshott]

Numbers are important but are only part of the story.

As has been said, all clubs and their backroom staff have access to broadly the same numbers. What matters is how they are interpreted in the context in which they are being considered.

Different sport, of course, but I think there is an analogy with horse racing, where everyone contemplating a bet can access essentially the same data, whether racing history as per the form book, or ratings generated by the various specialists employed by the Racing Post, Timeform etc. But with near universal access to masses of potentially relevant data the market (the collectivity of people who have considered a race and whatever associated data they regard as relevant) only gets it right about 30% of the time - the percentage of races won by the favourite. And the "expert" tipsters whose selections adorn the racing pages of the Post and daily newspapers mostly don't make a level stakes profit on their "naps" over a season or achieve a winning percentage above the 20-30% range.

Some using essentially the same data would be embarrassed not to achieve a 50% winning percentage, while the best get over 80%. Why? Because they can interpret the near universally available data very much more effectively than the rest.

So no reason to throw out "analytics" as useless - I'm sure they are not. But they need to be tools on which good judges can draw in making their judgements about how well a given player will fit the team, given the way the team is being set up to play, and be able to work effectively with the existing players. The likes of Tigana and RH showed what can be done by good judges. Players like Saha and BH were players who were respectively seen as a failure in UK football or not worth consideration, but fitted precisely the way those two managers set up the team when in charge, and have become Club legends. There is, I think, some evidence that Mitrovic was signed almost wholly on J's say so, and if he stays (unlikely as we are clearly going to be a Championship side next season) he'd likely have joined Saha and BH in terms of much respected Fulham players.

If, as seems likely, analytics are in the driving seat rather than being tools a manager with good judgement can draw upon, then the results can be predicted to be similar to the bank balance of the punter who blindly backs favourites or follows one or other of the daily newspaper tipsters long term - ie heading in a downward direction.

[Statto]

Last time we were looking for a manager we were inexplicably keen on the totally underwhelming Steve Clark. Now I'm hearing we're in for him again - presumably that's who the OP is referring to. Sorry but we do we even need to have a discussion about what a stupid approach this is?

[MJG]

Last time we were looking for a manager we were inexplicably keen on the totally underwhelming Steve Clark. Now I'm hearing we're in for him again - presumably that's who the OP is referring to. Sorry but we do we even need to have a discussion about what a stupid approach this is?

was told yesterday its not true about Clarke.

[3rdgenfan]

Last time we were looking for a manager we were inexplicably keen on the totally underwhelming Steve Clark. Now I'm hearing we're in for him again - presumably that's who the OP is referring to. Sorry but we do we even need to have a discussion about what a stupid approach this is?

was told yesterday its not true about Clarke.

If Bristol City fail to get promoted an approach to Lee Johnson may be worth while. Born and bred in Fulham