Slavisa Jokanovic leads contenders for West Brom manager's job

[Milo]

I hope SP gives our kids a run out.  They surely deserve their chance and it would give us an idea who we should keep for championship

Should be supranumerary for me. The Magath era had too much pressure on it to play kids and we were nearly relegated. We can't take the Championship for granted!

[Statto]

the FFC rebuild is big enough as it is without yet another set of changes to the coaching staff, rebuilding bridges with playing staff, (those that stick around obviously), and resetting the tone about the place.

Well as it stands we will need to do all that in the summer in any case

Surely bringing Jokanovic back mitigates the need for a "reset"?

The return of JOka by implication is the removal of Parker which in turn is the removal of his new coaching team, Parkers choices and at least one of the team is not a JOka favourite. There were numerous stories coming out of the camp regarding player discontent, too many new faces and most importantly communication difficulties. There might well be some discontent especially if players hoping for a move don't get one, there will have to be new faces so settling in and nurturing will be required and the communication process will have to be kick started again and this time with out Parker. What's that definition of madness analogy again when the previous failings are copied and pasted and tried again? The first half of next season is going to have to be so much better than his last two goes at it so we might as well put every effort into a different path.

Still struggling with this reasoning.

The current coaching team is a combination of Ranieri's guys, who'll be replaced in any case, and two others (Parker himself and Gray) who Jokanovic would likely keep but a new manager would replace.

Half the players have already worked successfully with Joka for 2-3 seasons and the other half were brought in to play Joka's preferred tactics. I assume a new manager would want to change lots of them; Parker, if he wants to impose his own tactics on the team, will likely need to change at least some; and a returning Jokanovic would probably require the least player turnover of all.

Overall I suspect reinstating Jokanovic, whilst technically amounting to another change in manager, would actually involve less disruption to other staff and players than keeping Parker.

And of course that assumes Parker is a viable long-term appointment. Personally I'd be astounded if, one way or another, we don't have a completely new manager by the end of the calendar year, which is the scenario involving the most disruption of all.

[ScalleysDad]

Agreed it needs thought Scalleys but I don't think the ex Spurs U18 coach came to the club thinking Parker is guaranteed to be the Manager next year. I think the "Caretaker" role has been clearly demarcated by the club in press releases etc.

With regards playing staff, I think the majority would want Jokanovic back. A return to good football and the golden years.

The only exception is Gray but it could be argued there are other defensive coaches out there and something has to give. What's more important.. the manager or the defensive coach.. what's the highest risk to replace etc.

Hmm.

Hmmmmmm indeed. I trump your golden years with two half seasons and another perspective on his departure. Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room. Also did he not ultimately lose the fans. I back up the latter by recalling the use of woeful, abysmal, gutless and the like in post match threads. JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before and with the very important caveat that what was thrown at him has been proved to be consistently poor all season our general play, set plays and game management were very poor. The words "we need to be braver" still hang in the air when we had just been given a lesson in how not to set up a team, defend or play to our strengths. Is there any meat on the bone that suggests the two half seasons JOka gave us, the golden months, were actually down to key players playing their very best football and not savvy tactics or clever planning. That could be a carbon copy of the Watford promotion season where JOka took charge a good few games into the season, a sort of 'success in spite of' scenario, as Deeney and co were more than capable of romping the Championship. The five game losing streak following Joka's appointment curtailed that a bit but it seemed to click following representations to the Watford board about playing styles when they walloped us five nil and it could have been eight. We did this story a while ago. The Watford FC senior journo was mentioned as I recall and a coach, who latterly went on to work with Hasselbank, was brought in to act as a buffer and decipherer.
Back to us. Yes we swept some teams away but equally we became one trick ponies against better teams with the likes of Betts, Button and Ream often getting Man of the match awards, on here at least. We were good in parts and media darlings but without some outstanding goal keeping performances a good few three pointers may have been draws.
Irrelevant now I suppose as the waft of marmite sets in. He has gone, he is history and he continues to split opinion. As with Watford his departure is cloaked in 'what ifs' and 'what happened' but he has not been asked to go back there and he has already had a chance to work with the rabble he would inherit if he returned to us. It's not going to work and TK does not even get a mention. The future has to be JOka free and it's time to hunker down for the next chapter.
Just a series of thoughts and I am now heading for the bunker.
I'm not telling you how I voted but thanks for putting the option out there.

[Milo]

Agreed it needs thought Scalleys but I don't think the ex Spurs U18 coach came to the club thinking Parker is guaranteed to be the Manager next year. I think the "Caretaker" role has been clearly demarcated by the club in press releases etc.

With regards playing staff, I think the majority would want Jokanovic back. A return to good football and the golden years.

The only exception is Gray but it could be argued there are other defensive coaches out there and something has to give. What's more important.. the manager or the defensive coach.. what's the highest risk to replace etc.

Hmm.

Hmmmmmm indeed. I trump your golden years with two half seasons and another perspective on his departure. Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room. Also did he not ultimately lose the fans. I back up the latter by recalling the use of woeful, abysmal, gutless and the like in post match threads. JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before and with the very important caveat that what was thrown at him has been proved to be consistently poor all season our general play, set plays and game management were very poor. The words "we need to be braver" still hang in the air when we had just been given a lesson in how not to set up a team, defend or play to our strengths. Is there any meat on the bone that suggests the two half seasons JOka gave us, the golden months, were actually down to key players playing their very best football and not savvy tactics or clever planning. That could be a carbon copy of the Watford promotion season where JOka took charge a good few games into the season, a sort of 'success in spite of' scenario, as Deeney and co were more than capable of romping the Championship. The five game losing streak following Joka's appointment curtailed that a bit but it seemed to click following representations to the Watford board about playing styles when they walloped us five nil and it could have been eight. We did this story a while ago. The Watford FC senior journo was mentioned as I recall and a coach, who latterly went on to work with Hasselbank, was brought in to act as a buffer and decipherer.
Back to us. Yes we swept some teams away but equally we became one trick ponies against better teams with the likes of Betts, Button and Ream often getting Man of the match awards, on here at least. We were good in parts and media darlings but without some outstanding goal keeping performances a good few three pointers may have been draws.
Irrelevant now I suppose as the waft of marmite sets in. He has gone, he is history and he continues to split opinion. As with Watford his departure is cloaked in 'what ifs' and 'what happened' but he has not been asked to go back there and he has already had a chance to work with the rabble he would inherit if he returned to us. It's not going to work and TK does not even get a mention. The future has to be JOka free and it's time to hunker down for the next chapter.
Just a series of thoughts and I am now heading for the bunker.
I'm not telling you how I voted but thanks for putting the option out there.

Can't argue with a lot of that!

I think the key is the divide in opinion with fans. Together with the Khan's pride.. I think we will end up looking elsewhere.

Just have to remind ourselves I suppose that Jokanovic came in after we lost Hodgson, and someone will no doubt come around better still. Let's hope it's sooner rather than later!

[ScalleysDad]

Indeed Milo but is there a 'fits like a glove' man of immense experience, charm and integrity out there?
Wenger possibly but we might only be a little project for him now.

[Statto]

Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room.
...
JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before
...
Is there any meat on the bone that suggests the two half seasons JOka gave us, the golden months, were actually down to key players playing their very best football and not savvy tactics or clever planning.

Can't argue with a lot of that!

Maybe you can't Milo but I certainly can

I saw no evidence Jokanovic had lost the dressing room except baseless conjecture from a small minority of fans, about something highly unlikely given how well the players had been playing for him only months earlier. Are we seriously suggesting Mitrovic, Cairney, Sessegnon, McDonald et al weren't supportive of Jokanovic?

Our "talisman" under-performed because he was injured, and actually, at this level rather average-looking performances may well represent his "best" anyway.

And of course then there's the total contradiction of that point by suggesting we 'only' looked great for two years because "key players played their very best football" as if how well a player plays is nothing to do with the manager. 

[ALG01]

I feel ill thinking slav is going to WBA
I feel cheated that he was not given more time with us
Ridiculous,

[milis]

Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room.

Among the three managers this season only Ranieri did manage to lose the dressing room.

JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before and with the very important caveat that what was thrown at him has been proved to be consistently poor all season our general play, set plays and game management were very poor.

Nonsense. Did Mitro score more goals under Slava or Ranieri? Were Sess and Tom playing better under Slava or Ranieri? 

The words "we need to be braver" still hang in the air when we had just been given a lesson in how not to set up a team, defend or play to our strengths.

Well that is still true - we need to be more brave.

[ScalleysDad]

Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room.
...
JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before
...
Is there any meat on the bone that suggests the two half seasons JOka gave us, the golden months, were actually down to key players playing their very best football and not savvy tactics or clever planning.

Can't argue with a lot of that!

Maybe you can't Milo but I certainly can

I saw no evidence Jokanovic had lost the dressing room except baseless conjecture from a small minority of fans, about something highly unlikely given how well the players had been playing for him only months earlier. Are we seriously suggesting Mitrovic, Cairney, Sessegnon, McDonald et al weren't supportive of Jokanovic?

Our "talisman" under-performed because he was injured, and actually, at this level rather average-looking performances may well represent his "best" anyway.

And of course then there's the total contradiction of that point by suggesting we 'only' looked great for two years because "key players played their very best football" as if how well a player plays is nothing to do with the manager. 

I recall more than baseless conjecture although I admit I never file these sort of things away, keep a diary or be particularly bothered. Who came out with the point that there were too many new faces and splits in the camp between the old guard and the rest? Somebody did. We also had the post match analysis of players body language/not playing for him which was in line with the woeful, abysmal, he has to go threads.

Talismen plural. The very names you have mentioned were simply not firing from the start of the season and continued to be shadows of the previous season.

I said two half seasons which ties in with the two runs that are often quoted. Of course good players can flourish in spite of the manager but in the main they are made better players because of the manager. We ended up with key players from the Championship team who could not pass or strike a ball. Yes the Premier League is faster, more physical and at times ruthless but even so the manager, albeit untested in the PL, has to take some of the blame for players going backwards or stalling in their development.

I take your commentary with the respect this board deserves so you will have to make up your own emoji if you need one.

[..FOF..]

Joka have shown that he can defy Tony and make sure he will do what Shahid had paid him to do.

Joka had benched players or even letting them rot in the under-23 squad.

So, even if he did lose the dressing room, the management didn't gave him enough time to rectify....

.... like always... in the 2nd half of the season...

[The Rational Fan]

Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room.
...
JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before
...
Is there any meat on the bone that suggests the two half seasons JOka gave us, the golden months, were actually down to key players playing their very best football and not savvy tactics or clever planning.

Can't argue with a lot of that!

Maybe you can't Milo but I certainly can

I saw no evidence Jokanovic had lost the dressing room except baseless conjecture from a small minority of fans, about something highly unlikely given how well the players had been playing for him only months earlier. Are we seriously suggesting Mitrovic, Cairney, Sessegnon, McDonald et al weren't supportive of Jokanovic?

Our "talisman" under-performed because he was injured, and actually, at this level rather average-looking performances may well represent his "best" anyway.

And of course then there's the total contradiction of that point by suggesting we 'only' looked great for two years because "key players played their very best football" as if how well a player plays is nothing to do with the manager. 

I think injuries have affected some player's fitness and performance more than we realise. At this level, even resting a few weeks reduces fitness that could take a few months until a player, like Sessegnon, gets back to his peak conidtion (i.e. fittest palyer in the squad).

Most of the players that have disappointed have also missed games due to injury (including Betts,TFM, Nordveidt, Mawson, Ream, Bryan, McDonald, Anguissa, Seri, Cairney, Markvoic, Schullre, Kebano, Atyie, Ryan Sessegnon and Ryan Babel).

While the uninjured players have performed around my expectations (including Rico, Fabri, Christie, Chambers, MLM, Cisse, Vietto, Mitro, Johasen, Kamara), although some of those players I expected very little.

[Mince n Tatties]

Big gamble on Alex Neil to get the job.
2nd fav behind Slava now with some firms.

[toshes mate]

I trump your golden years with two half seasons and another perspective on his departure. Was there not a substantiated series of threads back in October about the players not playing for him and JOka losing the dressing room. Also did he not ultimately lose the fans. I back up the latter by recalling the use of woeful, abysmal, gutless and the like in post match threads. JOka failed to get the best out of our talismen from the season before and with the very important caveat that what was thrown at him has been proved to be consistently poor all season our general play, set plays and game management were very poor. The words "we need to be braver" still hang in the air when we had just been given a lesson in how not to set up a team, defend or play to our strengths. Is there any meat on the bone that suggests the two half seasons JOka gave us, the golden months, were actually down to key players playing their very best football and not savvy tactics or clever planning. That could be a carbon copy of the Watford promotion season where JOka took charge a good few games into the season, a sort of 'success in spite of' scenario, as Deeney and co were more than capable of romping the Championship. The five game losing streak following Joka's appointment curtailed that a bit but it seemed to click following representations to the Watford board about playing styles when they walloped us five nil and it could have been eight. We did this story a while ago. The Watford FC senior journo was mentioned as I recall and a coach, who latterly went on to work with Hasselbank, was brought in to act as a buffer and decipherer.
Back to us. Yes we swept some teams away but equally we became one trick ponies against better teams with the likes of Betts, Button and Ream often getting Man of the match awards, on here at least. We were good in parts and media darlings but without some outstanding goal keeping performances a good few three pointers may have been draws.
Irrelevant now I suppose as the waft of marmite sets in. He has gone, he is history and he continues to split opinion. As with Watford his departure is cloaked in 'what ifs' and 'what happened' but he has not been asked to go back there and he has already had a chance to work with the rabble he would inherit if he returned to us. It's not going to work and TK does not even get a mention. The future has to be JOka free and it's time to hunker down for the next chapter.
Just a series of thoughts and I am now heading for the bunker.
I'm not telling you how I voted but thanks for putting the option out there.

It's always interesting to read how other people see the Jokanovic era and for sure there was a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly.  However, the best foorball a Jokanovic directed team could produce was way above anything most younger FFC supporters have seen before and certainly equal to the best entertainment I have seen in my seven plus decades.  Of course, Jokanovic may have struck it lucky because his first several months in a relegation battle were not exactly awe inspiring.  But, in his first pre-season I understood what he was trying to achieve via player partnerships, possession of the ball, and relentless attacking methods which would move around the pitch as opponents attempted to regroup.  I recall the match against Bristol City away where the method and madness first manifested its depth and beauty and left me asking 'Where did that come from?' since these players had shown no true ability to perform that way prior to the Jokanovic makeover.

For sure there were the moments others got the better of us mostly via brute strength and unprotective refereeing as is the nature of the Championship.  But Jokanovic's first full season was something else, only to be spoiled by, appropriately enough, a refereeing error to deny us a chance at Wembley.  With a crocked play maker season two, the successful one, never quite reached the first one for class and style, although the were still moments to relish during that run. 

As for the third season well the wheels came off for a number of reasons, mostly down to off field matters which had eaten away at Jokanovic's every foundations for success.  But he still managed to direct our best performance of the season as his last hurrah and it still hasn't been eclipsed by anyone else with the same or better bunch of players.  And so, under better leadership at the top I'd say Jokanovic will do his magic wherever he goes, and FFC will find it very hard work indeed to better him football wise and result wise.  At least with the record the Khans have got....     

[Woolly Mammoth]

Sadly, I do believe Shahid Khan and his son are too proud to have the humbleness and humility required to correct a former error, especially given the manner in which that error was formulated and executed.  The recycling of the 'all those defeats standing in a row' mantra would only hold water if the replacement had actually achieved a 'risk free' outcome.  Sadly, I don't think we will see Jokanovic back as much as I'd like him to be.   

I would like Slavisa back, but why would he want to come back whilst the Khans run the club the way they do.
He would be a glutton for punishment. 
I do not think the Khans are that proud, I would say more ignorant, and that will result in dire regretful circumstances, as they have had plenty of time to understand how to run and English Football Club, but far too many errors of judgement for my liking, and far too many managers have come and gone.
In fact the owners sons best mate CK lasted longer than most of the managers we have had under their tenure. Which tells you more about them than it did about CK, and even he orchestrated and was instrumental in his own demise, otherwise, if the owners son had his way, the loud mouthed, arrogant, full of his own importance brazen cocky CK would still be employed no doubt.
Whereupon other members of staff in the lower ranks have lost their jobs to save pennies, whilst the Khans  waste millions.

[The Old Count]

Sadly, I do believe Shahid Khan and his son are too proud to have the humbleness and humility required to correct a former error, especially given the manner in which that error was formulated and executed.  The recycling of the 'all those defeats standing in a row' mantra would only hold water if the replacement had actually achieved a 'risk free' outcome.  Sadly, I don't think we will see Jokanovic back as much as I'd like him to be.   

I would like Slavisa back, but why would he want to come back whilst the Khans run the club the way they do.
He would be a glutton for punishment. 
I do not think the Khans are that proud, I would say more ignorant, and that will result in dire regretful circumstances, as they have had plenty of time to understand how to run and English Football Club, but far too many errors of judgement for my liking, and far too many managers have come and gone.
In fact the owners sons best mate CK lasted longer than most of the managers we have had under their tenure. Which tells you more about them than it did about CK, and even he orchestrated and was instrumental in his own demise, otherwise, if the owners son had his way, the loud mouthed, arrogant, full of his own importance brazen cocky CK would still be employed no doubt.
Whereupon other members of staff in the lower ranks have lost their jobs to save pennies, whilst the Khans  waste millions.

As much as I'd like to see Joka return, realistically, it ain't going to happen. Not with TK in charge and following his own seperate agenda.  TK isn't going anywhere. He's not going to admit his Stats model doesn't work. He's got a business and a lot of moolah tied up in that concept.
Given the restraints throughout his tenure Slav massively over achieved. He  came thinking he would be able to get his way and make TK and SK see what was in the best interests of the club. He didn't manage that.
It is unlikely that we will find anyone as good.  I'm afraid we're going to be tied to 'yes men' managers or chancers who hope they can make a purse out of a sow's ear.  It will probably be a long stint in the Championship or lower I'm afraid.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Sadly, I do believe Shahid Khan and his son are too proud to have the humbleness and humility required to correct a former error, especially given the manner in which that error was formulated and executed.  The recycling of the 'all those defeats standing in a row' mantra would only hold water if the replacement had actually achieved a 'risk free' outcome.  Sadly, I don't think we will see Jokanovic back as much as I'd like him to be.   

I would like Slavisa back, but why would he want to come back whilst the Khans run the club the way they do.
He would be a glutton for punishment. 
I do not think the Khans are that proud, I would say more ignorant, and that will result in dire regretful circumstances, as they have had plenty of time to understand how to run and English Football Club, but far too many errors of judgement for my liking, and far too many managers have come and gone.
In fact the owners sons best mate CK lasted longer than most of the managers we have had under their tenure. Which tells you more about them than it did about CK, and even he orchestrated and was instrumental in his own demise, otherwise, if the owners son had his way, the loud mouthed, arrogant, full of his own importance brazen cocky CK would still be employed no doubt.
Whereupon other members of staff in the lower ranks have lost their jobs to save pennies, whilst the Khans  waste millions.

As much as I'd like to see Joka return, realistically, it ain't going to happen. Not with TK in charge and following his own seperate agenda.  TK isn't going anywhere. He's not going to admit his Stats model doesn't work. He's got a business and a lot of moolah tied up in that concept.
Given the restraints throughout his tenure Slav massively over achieved. He  came thinking he would be able to get his way and make TK and SK see what was in the best interests of the club. He didn't manage that.
It is unlikely that we will find anyone as good.  I'm afraid we're going to be tied to 'yes men' managers or chancers who hope they can make a purse out of a sow's ear.  It will probably be a long stint in the Championship or lower I'm afraid.

Yes I agree, and I fear you are completely accurate in your observations, and that for me is the most dissapointing aspect of this whole scenario.

[Facts Not Fiction]

Sadly, I do believe Shahid Khan and his son are too proud to have the humbleness and humility required to correct a former error, especially given the manner in which that error was formulated and executed.  The recycling of the 'all those defeats standing in a row' mantra would only hold water if the replacement had actually achieved a 'risk free' outcome.  Sadly, I don't think we will see Jokanovic back as much as I'd like him to be.   

I would like Slavisa back, but why would he want to come back whilst the Khans run the club the way they do.
He would be a glutton for punishment. 
I do not think the Khans are that proud, I would say more ignorant, and that will result in dire regretful circumstances, as they have had plenty of time to understand how to run and English Football Club, but far too many errors of judgement for my liking, and far too many managers have come and gone.
In fact the owners sons best mate CK lasted longer than most of the managers we have had under their tenure. Which tells you more about them than it did about CK, and even he orchestrated and was instrumental in his own demise, otherwise, if the owners son had his way, the loud mouthed, arrogant, full of his own importance brazen cocky CK would still be employed no doubt.
Whereupon other members of staff in the lower ranks have lost their jobs to save pennies, whilst the Khans  waste millions.

As much as I'd like to see Joka return, realistically, it ain't going to happen. Not with TK in charge and following his own seperate agenda.  TK isn't going anywhere. He's not going to admit his Stats model doesn't work. He's got a business and a lot of moolah tied up in that concept.
Given the restraints throughout his tenure Slav massively over achieved. He  came thinking he would be able to get his way and make TK and SK see what was in the best interests of the club. He didn't manage that.
It is unlikely that we will find anyone as good.  I'm afraid we're going to be tied to 'yes men' managers or chancers who hope they can make a purse out of a sow's ear.  It will probably be a long stint in the Championship or lower I'm afraid.

Nonsense I'm afraid.

Jokanovic didn't over achieve. We had a squad that was easily capable of top 6 for 2 years. And guess who assembled that squad? Yep, Tony Khan.

And there are far better managers out there, one of which has recently left Huddersfield.

Plus, we have a constant stream of investment into the club. The chances of us falling down to league 1 are minimal.

[toshes mate]

Nonsense I'm afraid.

I'm afraid nonsense is all you have to offer. 

You make no attempt to back up your specious, facile and laughable notions with hard facts or evidence. 

With TK continuing at the recruitment helm and his pathetic abuse of good money (which is not his, it is FFC's), League One may actually prove to be mercifully over achieving. 

[Statto]

Nonsense I'm afraid.

Jokanovic didn't over achieve. We had a squad that was easily capable of top 6 for 2 years. And guess who assembled that squad? Yep, Tony Khan.

And there are far better managers out there, one of which has recently left Huddersfield.

Nonsense I'm afraid.

There were more Mike Rigg signings (McDonald, Cairney, Ream, Fredericks), youth players (Bettinelli, Sessegnon) and Jokanovic's mates (Mitrovic) in that team than Tony Khan signings.

And most of those players were fighting a relegation battle under Symons before Jokanovic came in an turned them into the best team in the league.

To the extent players we had under Jokanovic have left (Martin, Aluko, Malone...) they've gone back to being terrible under their new managers (one of whom included Wagner, btw).

You and I have already had the Wagner vs Jokanovic debate, and whilst I cannot claim to be able to prove Jokanovic is better, you certainly didn't prove Wagner is better. It's pure opinion.