Summer Transfer Gossip.

[Roberty]

If the Hector issue was purely cash, why didn't we loan him with an option to buy that we could exercise in January.

The FFP position for this season is assessed after the Jan window has closed, so your suggestion would make no difference one way or the other.

I know, that was my point.
When I say "cash" problem, I mean FFP problem, ie we didn't know whether we would have the Sessegnon funds to spend.
So we could have done the Hector deal as a loan at 10am yesterday morning before we completed the Sessegnon sale, then bought Hector in January, once we had the Sessegnon money in our budget.

Not possible - Chelski want and expected to get a fee for his transfer - he is in the last year of his contract and would have been ours for free at the end of any loan

[fulhamben]

If the Hector issue was purely cash, why didn't we loan him with an option to buy that we could exercise in January.

The FFP position for this season is assessed after the Jan window has closed, so your suggestion would make no difference one way or the other.

I know, that was my point.
When I say "cash" problem, I mean FFP problem, ie we didn't know whether we would have the Sessegnon funds to spend.
So we could have done the Hector deal as a loan at 10am yesterday morning before we completed the Sessegnon sale, then bought Hector in January, once we had the Sessegnon money in our budget.

Not possible - Chelski want and expected to get a fee for his transfer - he is in the last year of his contract and would have been ours for free at the end of any loan

can you not defer payments for loans like with big transfers, pound up front and the rest in 12 months

[Statto]

If the Hector issue was purely cash, why didn't we loan him with an option to buy that we could exercise in January.

The FFP position for this season is assessed after the Jan window has closed, so your suggestion would make no difference one way or the other.

I know, that was my point.
When I say "cash" problem, I mean FFP problem, ie we didn't know whether we would have the Sessegnon funds to spend.
So we could have done the Hector deal as a loan at 10am yesterday morning before we completed the Sessegnon sale, then bought Hector in January, once we had the Sessegnon money in our budget.

Not possible - Chelski want and expected to get a fee for his transfer - he is in the last year of his contract and would have been ours for free at the end of any loan

well evidently they won't get a fee now until january, if at all.

as i said (in a part of my post which has been cropped) "If Chelsea didn't want him loaned out all season, they could have also had a recall clause such that if we don't exercise the option to buy on January 1st, they can recall him and sell him to another club."

[fulhamben]

If the Hector issue was purely cash, why didn't we loan him with an option to buy that we could exercise in January.

The FFP position for this season is assessed after the Jan window has closed, so your suggestion would make no difference one way or the other.

I know, that was my point.
When I say "cash" problem, I mean FFP problem, ie we didn't know whether we would have the Sessegnon funds to spend.
So we could have done the Hector deal as a loan at 10am yesterday morning before we completed the Sessegnon sale, then bought Hector in January, once we had the Sessegnon money in our budget.

Not possible - Chelski want and expected to get a fee for his transfer - he is in the last year of his contract and would have been ours for free at the end of any loan

well evidently they won't get a fee now until january, if at all.

as i said (in a part of my post which has been cropped) "If Chelsea didn't want him loaned out all season, they could have also had a recall clause such that if we don't exercise the option to buy on January 1st, they can recall him and sell him to another club."

yes, I'm sure there would have been ways around it. But do we really know if we were even actually in for him.

[Sting of the North]

yes, I'm sure there would have been ways around it. But do we really know if we were even actually in for him.

If reports are to be believed he was at Motspur Park, which suggest we were definitely in for him.

[fulhamben]

yes, I'm sure there would have been ways around it. But do we really know if we were even actually in for him.

If reports are to be believed he was at Motspur Park, which suggest we were definitely in for him.

I was watching Ssn for the run in and around 4 ish they said his move to Wednesday was off and Chelsea said he wasnt leaving. That was the last that he was mentioned on there.

[Sting of the North]

yes, I'm sure there would have been ways around it. But do we really know if we were even actually in for him.

If reports are to be believed he was at Motspur Park, which suggest we were definitely in for him.

I was watching Ssn for the run in and around 4 ish they said his move to Wednesday was off and Chelsea said he wasnt leaving. That was the last that he was mentioned on there.

Sure, but on this forum there has been a huge amount of further information that may or may not be correct of course.

[DevonFFC]

Brentford have just brought a player set to sign in Jan, expect to see Hector doing the same then

[Jims Dentist]

With one and a half hours to hit the transfer funds button it just doesn't make sense. Clear balls up by the finance team

You got vast experience in dealing with football deals? Guess not

All other clubs reliant on funds managed it.
Not as if we didn't know to prepare for it - common sense!

I agree that the Sess deal should be no excuse, but just out of interest, what other clubs reliant of funds that ultimately did not get released until 3.30 pm managed to get all their dealings done?

Ours isn't a funds issue in terms of lacking the money. We have it in our locker. But there was only so much more money we could lose in terms of FFP, that we had to wait to the Sess money comes in to balance the book.

No doubt, if we had bought Hector, and Sess fell through, we'd be inline for another FFP punishment.

The deal would have cost about £1-2m in this year's accounts. That would not push us over FFP. Even if it had, we could have made it back in January by off-loading someone like Fonte in an emergency cut-price deal.

I would be well happy if we could offload Fonte for anything approaching that, butt would not be optimistic.

[Asotosyios]

Apart from Fonte, we should try to get something for Cisse and Kebano. There are no minutes for them here and their contracts expire next summer.

[The Rational Fan]

If the Hector issue was purely cash, why didn't we loan him with an option to buy that we could exercise in January.

The FFP position for this season is assessed after the Jan window has closed, so your suggestion would make no difference one way or the other.

I know, that was my point.
When I say "cash" problem, I mean FFP problem, ie we didn't know whether we would have the Sessegnon funds to spend.
So we could have done the Hector deal as a loan at 10am yesterday morning before we completed the Sessegnon sale, then bought Hector in January, once we had the Sessegnon money in our budget.

Not possible - Chelski want and expected to get a fee for his transfer - he is in the last year of his contract and would have been ours for free at the end of any loan

can you not defer payments for loans like with big transfers, pound up front and the rest in 12 months

You can defer payments but that makes no difference under the Accural Accounting System that FFP operates. In the end, once the player is committed to Fulham it has to be locked in the books. Loop holes are not easy with getting new players from other clubs.

[Statto]

You can defer payments but that makes no difference under the Accural Accounting System that FFP operates. In the end, once the player is committed to Fulham it has to be locked in the books. Loop holes are not easy with getting new players from other clubs.

As discussed before, even if deferred commitments must be accounted for immediately under FFP (I'm still not sure I accept that but anyway... ) there is no way that applies to something like an option to  buy, which isn't even a 'commitment' unless and until we choose to exercise it. That's what I was suggesting regarding Hector.

IIRC, according to you, we'd already have to account for the full fees of £30m (or whatever we've agreed) in total for Reed, Knockaert and Cavaleiro, even though we may never buy them. As discussed previously, that is absurd with all due respect.

In any case, my suggestion regarding Hector wasnt to defer the permanent transfer until a new FFP accounting period. It was just to defer it until we had confirmation that Sessegnon was going to spurs. So nothing to do with FFP.

[Roberty]

You can defer payments but that makes no difference under the Accural Accounting System that FFP operates. In the end, once the player is committed to Fulham it has to be locked in the books. Loop holes are not easy with getting new players from other clubs.

As discussed before, even if deferred commitments must be accounted for immediately under FFP (I'm still not sure I accept that but anyway... ) there is no way that applies to something like an option to  buy, which isn't even a 'commitment' unless and until we choose to exercise it. That's what I was suggesting regarding Hector.

In any case, my suggestion regarding Hector wasn't to defer the permanent transfer until a new FFP accounting period. It was just to defer it until we had confirmation that Sessegnon was going to spurs. So nothing to do with FFP.

If Levy had found out that we'd committed to buying Hector before he'd signed off on the RS transfer - it would give TK the losing hand in that negotiation

So TK grew some big-balls for this one and had the winning hand; because he was not in any FFP trouble and was prepared to use his Dad's tea-kitty to cover the cost of running down RS's contract.

It's also not possible to have a loan with an option to buy for a player in the last year of his contract. I think Hector refused a new contact so Chelskis only option was to sell and if the reports are true we were the only club he wanted to join - much the same as RS with Spuds. Even if the option to buy had been for January, Levy would know that TK would have to sell RS to stay in safe FFP territory.

At the moment non of us know for certain how close to the FFP line we are - so we have to accept what we're told by the club - if their being untruthful we will know when the accounts at published and we can have analysis from MJG and a good moan then

[Statto]

Roberty, if it's true the rules preclude a loan with an option to buy for a player in the last year of his contract, fair enough, I wasn't aware of that. Do you have a source for that?

Otherwise, if we were genuinely in for Hector, obviously we lost out there so TK didn't have the "winning hand".

Unfortunately the Companies Act accounts won't tell us anything we don't already know about FFP.

[Roberty]

Roberty, if it's true the rules preclude a loan with an option to buy for a player in the last year of his contract, fair enough, I wasn't aware of that. Do you have a source for that?

Otherwise, if we were genuinely in for Hector, obviously we lost out there so TK didn't have the "winning hand".

Unfortunately the Companies Act accounts won't tell us anything we don't already know about FFP.

Logic - not sure about loaning a player in the last year of his contract but he would be a free agent at the end of the loan so there could be no option to buy - that being the case he could have been a free transfer - but I guess Chelski as still hoping to get something in January. You may not have heard that the Ryan Babel transfer was instead of a loan because be would have been a free agent anyway at the end of a loan period

There is always something - I was talking and the transfer negotiation with Spuds, sorry you didn't notice that - BUT are you saying that you would prefer to have Hector and lose any amount from the fee we got for Ryan?

I'm not sure how many would agree with losing £10m plus for "one of our own" because TK was stupid enough to put himself in a position of weakness when he was negotiating with Levy

What do you know about the clubs position regarding FFP for the current season - NOTHING - you can guess, make up figures and pontificate as much as you like but it does not make them right - when the club submits whatever paperwork to the EFL - then we will know for sure what the actual position was. At that point MJG will magic up some figures and we all know if we were being told the truth

[Statto]

Logic - not sure about loaning a player in the last year of his contract but he would be a free agent at the end of the loan so there could be no option to buy - that being the case he could have been a free transfer - but I guess Chelski as still hoping to get something in January.

Ok. Not really relevant then since I was talking about an option for January and recall if it's not exercised.

BUT are you saying that you would prefer to have Hector and lose any amount from the fee we got for Ryan?

Yes. Although not £10m.

What do you know about the clubs position regarding FFP for the current season - NOTHING - you can guess, make up figures and pontificate as much as you like but it does not make them right - when the club submits whatever paperwork to the EFL - then we will know for sure what the actual position was. At that point MJG will magic up some figures and we all know if we were being told the truth

There are only a few significant numbers. Parachute payments, wage bill and gate receipts. We know exactly what the parachute payment will be, TK has stated publicly the wage bill was £28m (albeit before this summer's business) and surely we can have a reasonable idea what gate receipts will be based on previous years, allowing for a 20% reduction in capacity. Not sure what surprises there could be in the statutory accounts but I suppose we'll find out when they're released... shame that isn't until March 2021!

[Roberty]

Statto
An option to buy at any time or even a free transfer give us a contracted financial cost that Levy would be sure to know about

So not £10m - but how much? Do you think Levy is going to play softball if he knows he has a winning hand? Do you really think having to have a firesale in January to balance the books is a good idea? What fee would any of our players command if buyers knew that we had to sell to satisfy FFP rules?

Since Ryan seems to have made it clear he wanted to go to Spuds (I have no proof and rely on newspaper reports) TK was already under the cosh - to be in FFP trouble as well would give Levy so much leverage that I doubt £10m would be enough given his reputation for being a smart operator when it comes to transfer negotiations.

One thing I can say is that I'm so glad we had TK negotiating with Levy because with you in charge we would have been eaten alive. Also anyone else as Director of Football might not have had the confidence that SK would support them if it did go pear shaped and Ryan was left to run down his contract - like it or not in this instance TK was in a unique position to man up to Levy and I very much doubt anyone else was going to do better

I'm glad that you agree with me - no one knows the truth about FFP until the accounts go off to the EFL and we have to accept what the club tells us until then

[Statto]

I'm glad that you agree with me - no one knows the truth about FFP until the accounts go off to the EFL and we have to accept what the club tells us until then

Don't be cretinous please. Fine to agree to disagree rather than having a long argument but that isn't what I said at all.

With me in charge instead of TK, we'd have signed Hector!!   :hook:

cheerio

[Roberty]

I'm glad that you agree with me - no one knows the truth about FFP until the accounts go off to the EFL and we have to accept what the club tells us until then

Don't be cretinous please. Fine to agree to disagree rather than having a long argument but that isn't what I said at all.

With me in charge instead of TK, we'd have signed Hector!!   :hook:

cheerio

It is exactly what you said - you just used more words

. . . . and lost £10m PLUS on the RS transfer - brilliant strategy - especially given that Hector is hardly an upgrade on the cohort we already have on our books

[FFC1987]

I'm glad that you agree with me - no one knows the truth about FFP until the accounts go off to the EFL and we have to accept what the club tells us until then

Don't be cretinous please. Fine to agree to disagree rather than having a long argument but that isn't what I said at all.

With me in charge instead of TK, we'd have signed Hector!!   :hook:

cheerio

It is exactly what you said - you just used more words

. . . . and lost £10m PLUS on the RS transfer - brilliant strategy - especially given that Hector is hardly an upgrade on the cohort we already have on our books

I'm not going to way in on any FFP details but just thought i'd say I think you've been out of order with how you treated/spoke to Statto. Really not cool considering it was a healthy discussion on things you both can't possibly know (which Statto also concluded).