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Strong Attack, Creative Midfield, Weak Defence

Started by Robbie, December 26, 2019, 05:26:09 PM

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Matt10

Quote from: Statto on December 28, 2019, 03:16:07 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on December 28, 2019, 02:59:24 PM
Ream has indeed been exceptional for me. He's made some forward passes that not even the best midfielders could make. He's also made critical challenges in deep positions. He made one mistake vs Luton, and it's being blown out of proportion.

Exceptional?!Exceptionally poor perhaps. He's been at least 50% responsible for loads of goals this season.

Don't get me wrong, Mawson, Bryan and Bettinelli when he was playing, have all had cock-ups lead to goals conceded on a weekly basis. But Ream is at least as bad, if not worse than anyone else at the back.

Luton was a perfect example. First goal Mawson's fault, perhaps with Rodak contributing. Second goal Ream and Mawson both terrible. Third goal Ream and Bryan.

I mean, our defenders should be responsible if we concede goals. That's the nature of the beast as a defender in the first place. You will be responsible for conceding goals - it's called being guilty by association. This is why we've got nothing but demand for an entire new defensive line, yet another generalization.

What mistake happened on the 2nd goal? Ream couldn't jump high enough? Then the ball deflects off the forward's hand and everyone stops? Still Ream's fault?

Placing blame defensively is one thing, but to me that is more collective than it is entirely down to one person. My remark was primarily about the issues we've had possessing the ball, and how Ream has been one who has been exceptional with his passing forward and maintain the possession in attacks. He made a terrible decision to not hoof the ball for the 3rd goal though, but how would he have known that it would have resulted in a goal like that.

Statto

Quote from: Matt10 on December 28, 2019, 08:04:20 PM
What mistake happened on the 2nd goal? Ream couldn't jump high enough? Then the ball deflects off the forward's hand and everyone stops? Still Ream's fault?

If a keeper comes out for a catch, completely misjudges the flight of the ball and it sails over his head giving someone an easy tap-in behind him, it's not an excuse for him to say he "couldn't jump high enough", is it?

Ream essentially did the same - completely misjudged the cross, jumped up without getting anywhere near it, and as a consequence was flat-footed and out of position when the ball was headed down to his man, Collins, who then scored.

Collins was able to score is because, in contrast to Ream, instead of attempting that silly jump, he realised it was too high (not a difficult judgment!) so calmly read where it was going, anticipated the knock-down, and positioned himself to get on the end of it.

Matt10

Quote from: Statto on December 28, 2019, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on December 28, 2019, 08:04:20 PM
What mistake happened on the 2nd goal? Ream couldn't jump high enough? Then the ball deflects off the forward's hand and everyone stops? Still Ream's fault?

If a keeper comes out for a catch, completely misjudges the flight of the ball and it sails over his head giving someone an easy tap-in behind him, it's not an excuse for him to say he "couldn't jump high enough", is it?

Ream essentially did the same - completely misjudged the cross, jumped up without getting anywhere near it, and as a consequence was flat-footed and out of position when the ball was headed down to his man, Collins, who then scored.

Collins was able to score is because, in contrast to Ream, instead of attempting that silly jump, he realised it was too high (not a difficult judgment!) so calmly read where it was going, anticipated the knock-down, and positioned himself to get on the end of it.

Sorry, mate, but that's definitely reaching a bit. He's taking the front post runner, while Christie and Mawson are in position for the end flight of the ball. Ream is following the runner, and the ball happens to be over his head. Christie behind him, and Mawson behind him. If you want to "blame" anyone, it'd be Mawson for not staying goal-side on the man who heads the ball down.

Sure, maybe Ream shouldn't have jumped at all, but who knows what could have happened if he didn't. Noone does, because that's not the reality of what we experienced.


RaySmith

It's tough being a defender at this level, because your mistakes are highlighted since they often lead to goals  being conceded, and everyone  can  replay the footage, and analyse  everything that went wrong.
Especially in these days of all games  filmed and recorded, and widely available to rewatch,  with TV  analysts looking at every goal.
'What went wrong? Whose to blame?' they ask.

But, of course, in football and sport, things are always going wrong. A highly competitive atmosphere, with two  teams, of elite ability, trying  very hard to win a game they've  trained for all week. This isn't just for their personal  egos, but their  livelihood - very lucrative if successful, but where  it's also very easy to fail, to not be good enough.

As an ex defender myself, at Sunday league level,  I know how stressful it can be - 'a pacey winger charging towards me, ball at his feet,another forward unmarked running into the box - f**** whose supposed to be picking him him?  Now the winger's gone past me - mistimed my tackle, have  to get after him,  I'm busting a gut but I'm just too slow, where's  the marking, the back up? F**** it, they've scored again,'
I can only imagine what this is like as a pro - but of course, they are highly paid to deal with it, but  they are still human.

Statto

#24
Quote from: Matt10 on December 29, 2019, 05:24:27 AM
Sorry, mate, but that's definitely reaching a bit. He's taking the front post runner, while Christie and Mawson are in position for the end flight of the ball. Ream is following the runner, and the ball happens to be over his head. Christie behind him, and Mawson behind him. If you want to "blame" anyone, it'd be Mawson for not staying goal-side on the man who heads the ball down.

Sure, maybe Ream shouldn't have jumped at all, but who knows what could have happened if he didn't. Noone does, because that's not the reality of what we experienced.

Ordinarily I'd say something like "let's agree to disagree..." but sorry, you're clearly, certainly wrong.

You've said he's "following the front post runner" - yes, that's exactly what he's *supposed* to be doing, I agree. But watch the replay (I cannot be bothered to post stills but will send you a link if you want) and you'll see very clearly when his man (Collins, the scorer) gets to the near post, Ream has *not* followed him (because he's misjudged the cross and tried to head it instead) hence Collins is free to score.

I'm not saying he's any more to blame than Mawson, who equally, should be winning that header at the far post. But no one who knows anything about football can watch that replay and the respective movement of Collins and Ream, and not say Ream has cocked up there as well.

JimOG

Ream is very good going forward IMO. He has vision & can pass. He isn't, however, a good tough defender. He doesn't dominate in the air and the latter stages v Luton exposed him for lack of pace.

I wonder will Parker go 3-5-2 when Hector comes in with Christie & Bryan as wing backs, Reed & Onomah & Cairney + Mitro & Reid? Maybe there's been too many changes already but it would protect the central defensive area and give Rodak more targets to restart play


YoungsBitter

Quote from: JimOG on December 29, 2019, 11:05:02 AM
Ream is very good going forward IMO. He has vision & can pass. He isn't, however, a good tough defender. He doesn't dominate in the air and the latter stages v Luton exposed him for lack of pace.

I wonder will Parker go 3-5-2 when Hector comes in with Christie & Bryan as wing backs, Reed & Onomah & Cairney + Mitro & Reid? Maybe there's been too many changes already but it would protect the central defensive area and give Rodak more targets to restart play
I hope not. We struggle as it is to transition the ball forward to the front three, if you reduce the creative side of the balance by one how does that help? Defense is not the responsibility of 4 people only. As much as Bryan, Ream and Mawson got things wrong against Luton they were, as always, left isolated; playing from the back works as long as there are lots of options for the defenders to pass through the press, if not then it just goes back to Rodak and as we saw with the first goal he is able to screw up as well.

I think the issue for a long time is Cairney, when one of the midfield 3 inconsistently bothers to chase back, make himself available or support the defense we are overloaded by the opposition. Bobby Reid will hustle back, as will Cavaleiro, StefJo or Onomah but TC is unreliable. The last 3 games he has not justified his place. We should have thumped Luton but yet again we got stuck in turgid build up and TC striding around the middle of their half laying it back yet again to Ream, so they get to regroup and little if any defensive cover from him at other times. How many games has this been like that, 3 out of the last 4? Part of the problem is that TC does not do it 100% of the time so Parker cannot even plan around his play, its the frustration that some times he turns up and sometimes not, often in the same game.
With little or inconsistent help from the mid 3 no wonder we keep screwing up at the back.

Another odd thought, why not play Ream as Defensive Mid, his ball distribution and reading of the game makes up for his lack of speed, he is quicker than KMac at least ;)
Quark, strangeness and charm