Chambers

[Statto]

He was better than Harrison Reed against better competition.   

Nonsense. Reed reads the game better, anticipates and positions himself better, is more mobile, confident on the ball, and can pick and execute a good pass. Basically all the things a midfielder is supposed to do. Chambers was a CB out of position who threw himself around bravely but demonstrated little or no technical ability. The fact that was enough to win POTY shows what a sh1tshow we were back then.

If you can show me the stats to back that up I'll concede.

Until then we'll agree to disagree.

Hopefully Harrison will have the chance to prove me wrong in extended minutes against premier league competition next season.

Well to begin with, according to Who Scored, in a Fulham shirt Chambers pass success rate was 79%, whereas Reed's is 88%

[Twig]

Wouldnt mind signing him, think he'd be useful considering his versatility. But yeah, id prefer Reed.

I love Harrison... but if Calum was healthy I think he's a better version of Harrison.  He looked really good playing CDM in the game we won against Everton.

If we can't do the deal for Harrison Reed, Calum Chambers would be on my radar immediately.  He's a better #6 than Harry Arter too.

I'm not knocking Chambers but are you serious, better than Reed? No way.

[hovewhite]

Out of zambo,seri &chambers ,re sign chambers I thought he CMD was consistently good ,CB rubbish.
Get rid of seri,zambo,along with Mawson another sick note and when fit not very good.
Would get Babel back in an instant.

[Bassey the warrior]

He is a good player and I'd seen him if we don't get Reed, but Reed is my first preference.

[AnOldBrownie]

He was better than Harrison Reed against better competition.   

Nonsense. Reed reads the game better, anticipates and positions himself better, is more mobile, confident on the ball, and can pick and execute a good pass. Basically all the things a midfielder is supposed to do. Chambers was a CB out of position who threw himself around bravely but demonstrated little or no technical ability. The fact that was enough to win POTY shows what a sh1tshow we were back then.

If you can show me the stats to back that up I'll concede.

Until then we'll agree to disagree.

Hopefully Harrison will have the chance to prove me wrong in extended minutes against premier league competition next season.

Well to begin with, according to Who Scored, in a Fulham shirt Chambers pass success rate was 79%, whereas Reed's is 88%

You're taking into account the different leagues?  No?

It's really a mute point as we're not getting Chambers.  I just find it odd that people that watched both individuals in the CDM role think that somehow Reed has been much more impressive.

To each their own.

[Statto]

You're taking into account the different leagues? 

Well your original assertion was that Chambers "was better than Harrison Reed against better competition."

Is it now, "OK, so Chambers wasn't better than Reed but Chambers was playing in a different league"?

[AnOldBrownie]

You're taking into account the different leagues? 

Well your original assertion was that Chambers "was better than Harrison Reed against better competition."

Is it now, "OK, so Chambers wasn't better than Reed but Chambers was playing in a different league"?

Stat wise, the later.

I believe that if both play the same position against the same teams and both are healthy Chambers is the better CDM.

[fulhamben]

You're taking into account the different leagues? 

Well your original assertion was that Chambers "was better than Harrison Reed against better competition."

Is it now, "OK, so Chambers wasn't better than Reed but Chambers was playing in a different league"?

Stat wise, the later.

I believe that if both play the same position against the same teams and both are healthy Chambers is the better CDM.

these stats are a mute point. We know for a fact that chambers wasn't good enough for us in the prem. whilst being one of our better performers, he still didn't add much protection to our back four. Reed although untested in the prem for us just might. Would rather go with hope over Someone  you know ultimately failed in his task. Plus reed is young and either stays with us if we go down or makes us some money back

[AnOldBrownie]

You're taking into account the different leagues? 

Well your original assertion was that Chambers "was better than Harrison Reed against better competition."

Is it now, "OK, so Chambers wasn't better than Reed but Chambers was playing in a different league"?

Stat wise, the later.

I believe that if both play the same position against the same teams and both are healthy Chambers is the better CDM.

these stats are a mute point. We know for a fact that chambers wasn't good enough for us in the prem. whilst being one of our better performers, he still didn't add much protection to our back four. Reed although untested in the prem for us just might. Would rather go with hope over Someone  you know ultimately failed in his task. Plus reed is young and either stays with us if we go down or makes us some money back

1. Aren't they only like a year apart in age?
2.  Reed beside Seri, and in front of MLM + Ream...in the Premier League...would have failed in that task.

That #2 is what Chambers was working with, AND he hadn't really been used as a CDM prior to that stint with us.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion...which is fine.    Our CDM is only going to be small part of the defensive changes we need to make to be successful (stay up) at the next level.

I'm ok with Chambers.  I'm ok with Reed.

Reed is the one I want.

[fulhamben]

You're taking into account the different leagues? 

Well your original assertion was that Chambers "was better than Harrison Reed against better competition."

Is it now, "OK, so Chambers wasn't better than Reed but Chambers was playing in a different league"?

Stat wise, the later.

I believe that if both play the same position against the same teams and both are healthy Chambers is the better CDM.

these stats are a mute point. We know for a fact that chambers wasn't good enough for us in the prem. whilst being one of our better performers, he still didn't add much protection to our back four. Reed although untested in the prem for us just might. Would rather go with hope over Someone  you know ultimately failed in his task. Plus reed is young and either stays with us if we go down or makes us some money back

1. Aren't they only like a year apart in age?
2.  Reed beside Seri, and in front of MLM + Ream...in the Premier League...would have failed in that task.

That #2 is what Chambers was working with, AND he hadn't really been used as a CDM prior to that stint with us.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion...which is fine.    Our CDM is only going to be small part of the defensive changes we need to make to be successful (stay up) at the next level.

I'm ok with Chambers.  I'm ok with Reed.

Reed is the one I want.

sorry I thought chambers was older. But no I don't agree about cdm being a small part of the defence. The reason brentford looked so poor was partly down to us stopping attacks before they started. Every good team through the years has had an astounding protector in front of the back four. And yes chambers didn't have much around him, but who's to say that what we field this season will actual fair any better. How will josh fair in the prem, there's no guarantee that he will be better than zambo, Cairney let's be honest had a poor season last time in prem, partly down to being played out on the right, Bryan will probably still start, hector looks good but not always, and we don't even know if we will upgrade the other positions. We could easily sign chambers and be saying the same thing at the end of the season again, he did alright considering who was around him. Plus he gets a lot of injuries

[FFCBadger]

You're taking into account the different leagues? 

Well your original assertion was that Chambers "was better than Harrison Reed against better competition."

Is it now, "OK, so Chambers wasn't better than Reed but Chambers was playing in a different league"?

Stat wise, the later.

I believe that if both play the same position against the same teams and both are healthy Chambers is the better CDM.

these stats are a mute point. We know for a fact that chambers wasn't good enough for us in the prem. whilst being one of our better performers, he still didn't add much protection to our back four. Reed although untested in the prem for us just might. Would rather go with hope over Someone  you know ultimately failed in his task. Plus reed is young and either stays with us if we go down or makes us some money back

1. Aren't they only like a year apart in age?
2.  Reed beside Seri, and in front of MLM + Ream...in the Premier League...would have failed in that task.

That #2 is what Chambers was working with, AND he hadn't really been used as a CDM prior to that stint with us.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion...which is fine.    Our CDM is only going to be small part of the defensive changes we need to make to be successful (stay up) at the next level.

I'm ok with Chambers.  I'm ok with Reed.

Reed is the one I want.

s
Plus he gets a lot of injuries

He's currently injured!! Why do we insist on signing sick notes?

[fulhamfever]

If we have him in the squad why not. We need strength in depth and quality

[grandad]

I would stay well clear. Still recovering from an ACL injury & not expected to play until October at least. Have we learned nothing. Mitroglu, Mawson are just 2 examples of buying crocks. We need oven ready players.

[blingo]

Why are we always looking at players returning from serious knee injuries? Makes no sense to me at all.

[howitis]

Signed as a CB and failed miserably.
Tried at right back and appalling.
In desperation played in centre mid-field in a sunk ship of a shipwreck season and he was player of the season for effort alone.

If we are aiming to survive for more than one season, as the boss says, lessons have to be learnt from last time. 
To me that does not mean re-signing triers but signing players that can do the job they are signed to do.

Spot on re Chambers - good post.

[ashteadFFC]

It is the injury that bothers me. Despite our great medical team we managed to evaluate Mawson incorrectly. If we are going to invest let's do our due diligence and learn from our past mistakes.

[S.F.Sorrow]

Chambers is a CB who can play DM/RB in a pinch. We shouldn't sign him as our first choice DM. Reed is FAR better in that position IMO: Better passing, better postitioning, better mobility. I'm sure Chambers can be decent cover at RCB (or maybe even a starter) but that's not what we need right now.

Chambers was awful when he played CB for us but many of you seem to forget that he was thrown into that position just a couple of days after we signed him. That back four also included Joe Bryan who arrived even later. 50% of our back four were players who had hardly met each other. I'm sure Chamber would have performed considerably better at CB if he had been given more time to settle in. In fact, he HAS performed better at CB. For Arsenal.

For me it boils down to this:

Chambers was thrown into the starting 11 too soon because TK had failed to sign the CBs we needed.

And then Chambers was played at DM because TK had failed to sign a DM suitable for the PL.

I have a really bad feeling about this transfer window. In the Championship TK could outspend most of the other clubs with daddy's money. And even then we slightly underperformed. Let's be honest, most of us expected automatic promotion. In the PL we can't outspend the other clubs. TK needs to be clever this time and from his latest interview it looks to me that he has learned very little from his mistakes. I hope he proves me wrong. The first thing he needs to get right is a new LCB. We need to get that sorted out NOW. Two days before the start of the season will not be good enough (that would be the Chambers scenario all over again). If we start another season with Ream at CB I will lose all hope that TK will ever learn.

EDIT: And then there's the injury of course. Surely TK won't make THAT mistake again?

[Lighthouse]

Chambers never impressed at centre half when he was here. I have read all the reasons and excuses why. But for me he wouldn't be on my list of players to bring in. But then I don't have a list. On the other hand at DM he was better. But is he better that the players we had last year in that position? Again I have read all the opinions. I still don't see him as a possible signing to get excited about. Frankly he was just another failure the last time we were in the Prem.

[Statto]

I have a really bad feeling about this transfer window. In the Championship TK could outspend most of the other clubs with daddy's money. And even then we slightly underperformed. Let's be honest, most of us expected automatic promotion. In the PL we can't outspend the other clubs. TK needs to be clever this time and from his latest interview it looks to me that he has learned very little from his mistakes. I hope he proves me wrong. The first thing he needs to get right is a new LCB. We need to get that sorted out NOW. Two days before the start of the season will not be good enough (that would be the Chambers scenario all over again). If we start another season with Ream at CB I will lose all hope that TK will ever learn.

Agree with all this... except the suggestion that because "we slightly underperformed" and "expected automatic promotion" that reflects badly on TK. The reason we expected automatic promotion was because TK put together such a good squad of players (by Championship standards). TK raised expectations by doing his part really well, then Parker and the team slightly underperformed in theirs. 

[S.F.Sorrow]

You have a point and you're probably right.  But did Parker really underperform or was he given the wrong players for his style of football? I just don't trust TK to get the players we really need. He might get us some "good" players but will he get us the "right" players for our tactics? Signing Knockaert on a permanent deal doesn't exactly fill me with confidence...