Just a word on our defence/Tim Ream

[colinwhite]

He is literally in every attack. The reality that I can prove that with is the fact that he led the league, as a defender, in the number of passes. Before anyone says that maybe because those were backpasses, then that just proves the point further because we are a possession based system that builds from the back.

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Ream was integral to our attacking play and Mawson  (like kallas before him with Slavisa ) got dropped eventually because he wasnt good enough on the ball. There were probably other issues too,but comfort in possession was the main one. Dont care about numbers ,Ream had an important role in our playing out phase that no other CB including Hector has had or could match. Ream has his faults but to underplay his importance to our attacking play in 2 promotion campaigns is just plain silly.

I'm going to stick my neck out and guess that Mawson, who is generally not perceived to be a 'ball-playing defender', wasn't far behind him with number of passes proportionate to games played, and that on defensive metrics (tackling etc) Ream was our worst defender. Certainly he had the lowest overall rating on WhoScored last year, which was based on all those things in combination.

[RaySmith]

Ream is the  cb in situ, someone who played an important part in us  winning the play-offs, and we should get behind him, until such times as the club signs someone better - which i'm sure the club is trying to do.

[rebel]

All the Prem teams will be aware that he likes to come out with the ball. If he's going to do that, he needs several options (players to pass to), the opposition strikers are going to be challenging in numbers as soon as he gets the ball, he is going to have less time in the Prem to make decisive passes. If he gets crowded out 'just kick the ball out of play'.

The FA Cup against Man City is a 'classic example'.   

[Statto]

Ream was integral to our attacking play and Mawson  (like kallas before him with Slavisa ) got dropped eventually because he wasnt good enough on the ball.

Neither Kalas nor Mawson got dropped.

Ream had an important role in our playing out phase that no other CB including Hector has had or could match.

Hector may not have accrued as many short passes to the person next to him as Ream did this year, but let's be clear, Ream's contribution to our offensive play pales into insignificance in comparison to Hector's. Hector plays wonderballs that Ream would never imagine. FFS he's even got two assists in the half season he's been here - 40 yard passes to Kebano (v Wednesday) and Reid (v Huddersfield). Ream hasn't got an assist in years!

This argument is now dragging on a bit. It seems most people agree that defensively, Ream is poor, and our worst CB except perhaps MLM, but offensively he's respectable, and our best CB except Hector. I would agree with that. As to which is more important, it's very subjective so I don't suppose we'll ever agree.

[Sting of the North]

I don't think the stats mean much when Mawson  has played far fewer games than Ream.

But it was not like Mawson played 5 minutes, he played half a season. And the stat referred to was passes per 90 minutes, so how do you figure they don't mean much because of less playing time? Surely half a season worth of playing is sufficient to compare averages per 90 minutes?

For what it's worth, I agree that the stats don't mean much. They mostly mean that in our tactics our centre backs will pass the ball a lot. If one should analyse Ream's contribution to our play, then the number of passes is probably not the best, since most players playing CB for us in Parker's system will have loads of passes and generally a good passing percentage (because the vast majority of the passes are 'safe' passes). Quantity is not a good tool in this case, in my opinion.

[Sting of the North]

Ream was integral to our attacking play and Mawson  (like kallas before him with Slavisa ) got dropped eventually because he wasnt good enough on the ball.

Neither Kalas nor Mawson got dropped.

Ream had an important role in our playing out phase that no other CB including Hector has had or could match.

Hector may not have accrued as many short passes to the person next to him as Ream did this year, but let's be clear, Ream's contribution to our offensive play pales into insignificance in comparison to Hector's. Hector plays wonderballs that Ream would never imagine. FFS he's even got two assists in the half season he's been here - Ream hasn't got an assist in years!

This argument is now dragging on a bit. It seems most people agree that defensively, Ream is poor, and our worst CB except perhaps MLM, but offensively he's respectable, and our best CB except Hector. I would agree with that. As to which is more important, it's very subjective so I don't suppose we'll ever agree.

Agree on that neither Kalas nor Mawson was dropped, at least not for the reasons put forth in this thread (which is just an attempt to re write history, in my opinion). Both got injured, and could then not for one reason or another regain their places.

However, to state that Ream's contribution to our offensive play pales into insignificance because Hector had more assists is equally lacking in logic in my opinion. There is more to offensive play than playing that last pass, and I would take a wild guess that our main tactics are generally not build upon those passes. Clearly Hector is better at picking out that long, often angled ball to wide players. But it is my impression (I have not verified it by data in any way) that Ream far more often plays that forward pass that initiates many of our attacking moves. Not saying one is better than the other when it comes to their impact on our offensive play, just saying that I don't think your example with number of assists contributes much at all to that particular discussion.

Agree with the general assessment that Ream is unlikely to be good enough to be a regular starter in the PL because of his defensive shortcomings (and frankly I have questioned his defensive capabilities even at Championship levels ever since he joined), but I don't think he is that bad. In a functioning team that keeps the defensive shape I think he is good enough to hold his own for a couple of games. I do think he will be one of our weaker starters and hope for a replacement, but not too worried in the short run.

[toshes mate]

IMHO, and to be fair to Alfie Mawson I don't believe he was ever 'fit' in the sense of a restoration of the abilities he showed at Swansea.  I think the knee injury he was recovering from on signing was much more of a handicap than it should have been even when he was judged to be fit.  The biggest problem at the beginning of the 2018/19 was getting eleven individuals to play as a team and the first time that really happened was at Anfield.  It wasn't seen again until very late in the season.
 
But you judge a player on how he performs over a realistic number of games and Ream has been there and done the job and put up with the flaws elsewhere in the team as do most professionals.  Last time in the PL there were vast numbers of reasons why the whole never got going and quickly collapsed and tactics were never really the main issue until Scott Parker managed to get signs of recuperation appearing in terms of being a 'team of players' rather than a collection of odd-bods and could actually try a few things out. 

We will see tomorrow just how important team spirit can be in getting a team to show resilience.  It'll be good if we can just show a competitive edge that something that went AWOL last time around except for the odd game which the Anfield game was one of few examples.  If the lads can match that then it'll be a good game.

[bobbo]

I read an awful lot on here regarding the awful defence we have.

Tim Ream is singled out as some sort of geriatric bystander in our back 5.

It has been like this for a few years and it is often the same posters. Now, you have every right to single him out if you so wish but I happen to think that the times our defence has looked all at sea is nearly always when the tactics (or performance of players) in front of them is so piss poor, it has left them on a hiding to nothing.

Throughout much of the start of last season, Tim was past it, too slow etc and at times in the season he was horribly exposed. Then for the last 3rd I thought he played superbly.

I am fairly certain our wide players were under strict instructions to put their bodies on the line tracking back. AK especially and Cav noticeably introduced this into their game. Add Reed into the mix and all of a sudden our defence gets to Wembley and makes the BMW Middlesex Globetrotters look toothless.

Tim Ream really suits our style. Without question, one-on-one against a quick premiership striker, he's struggling big time but he has great positional sense and if every player does their bit around our defence, we won't be the punch bag that some people thing.

Weirdly, I think you find that Hector may be the one to struggle to come to terms for a while as his positional sense, first touch and short passing is not as good as Tim's. He will give us a few heart attacks receiving the ball short.

Having said all of that, we do need an upgrade at the back.

love the BMW middx globe trotters qoute very clever.

[Statto]

However, to state that Ream's contribution to our offensive play pales into insignificance because Hector had more assists is equally lacking in logic in my opinion. There is more to offensive play than playing that last pass, and I would take a wild guess that our main tactics are generally not build upon those passes. Clearly Hector is better at picking out that long, often angled ball to wide players. But it is my impression (I have not verified it by data in any way) that Ream far more often plays that forward pass that initiates many of our attacking moves. Not saying one is better than the other when it comes to their impact on our offensive play, just saying that I don't think your example with number of assists contributes much at all to that particular discussion.

I agree with this logic but not the underlying assumption that Ream plays much more "forward passes that initiate our attacking moves", such as to outweigh Hector's long-passing superiority. Overall, Ream averaged 72 passes per game versus Hector's 66 this season - so only a small difference really. Whereas according to WhoScored, Hector played twice as many "key passes" (defined by them as "The final pass leading to a shot at goal from a teammate") and as we all have seen, plays a lot more long passes that turn defence into attack. I gave the assists as two very good examples but he's done it much more frequently than that. Now, I don't have a stat specifically for the total number of "forward passes that initiate our attacking moves", but the foregoing stats suggest (and certainly my own perception is) that Hector's overwhelming long passing superiority greatly outweighs any marginal superiority Ream may have in short passing.

I also think it worth noting that playing a short forward pass, eg to Reed or a deep-lying Cairney, isn't a particularly difficult skill, even if it ends up leading (eventually, and very indirectly) to a goal. Certainly is not such a rare and impactful talent as being able to pick and execute a 40-yard pass that gives the recipient a goal-scoring opportunity.

[filham]

There is one change that will make every single Fulham defender, including the defensive midfielders, look better this time around and that is the fact that Slavisa is no longer Fulham's manager.  I appreciate what Slav did in getting Fulham promoted but his tactics when transferred to the Premier League with a newly promoted squad were naive and left every defender isolated for far too often.

There is one change that will make every single Fulham defender, including the defensive midfielders, look better this time around and that is the fact that Slavisa is no longer Fulham's manager.  I appreciate what Slav did in getting Fulham promoted but his tactics when transferred to the Premier League with a newly promoted squad were naive and left every defender isolated for far too often.

I like this and I like the OP which I completely agree.

Taking the focus for a minute off Ream, the OP mentions that he could see Hector as the one who could struggle with the league.  I also would agree with the that.  I could be wrong, correct me if I am, but Hector has played zero minutes in the Premier League.  He had zero minutes with Chelsea who loaned him out instead.  So, for me Hector is still an unknown for the upcoming season. 

Lots of great players redevelop themselves during their careers.  Hopefully, Ream and Hector can redevelop themselves into the players that Fulham and Scotty need to get the job done at this level.  So, come Saturday come what may I will support the players that don the shirt and wear the badge. 

Yes, makesme think that we may well need Ream there against Arsenal to help Hector through

There is one change that will make every single Fulham defender, including the defensive midfielders, look better this time around and that is the fact that Slavisa is no longer Fulham's manager.  I appreciate what Slav did in getting Fulham promoted but his tactics when transferred to the Premier League with a newly promoted squad were naive and left every defender isolated for far too often.

I like this and I like the OP which I completely agree.

Taking the focus for a minute off Ream, the OP mentions that he could see Hector as the one who could struggle with the league.  I also would agree with the that.  I could be wrong, correct me if I am, but Hector has played zero minutes in the Premier League.  He had zero minutes with Chelsea who loaned him out instead.  So, for me Hector is still an unknown for the upcoming season. 

Lots of great players redevelop themselves during their careers.  Hopefully, Ream and Hector can redevelop themselves into the players that Fulham and Scotty need to get the job done at this level.  So, come Saturday come what may I will support the players that don the shirt and wear the badge. 

I like this and I like the OP which I completely agree.

Taking the focus for a minute off Ream, the OP mentions that he could see Hector as the one who could struggle with the league.  I also would agree with the that.  I could be wrong, correct me if I am, but Hector has played zero minutes in the Premier League.  He had zero minutes with Chelsea who loaned him out instead.  So, for me Hector is still an unknown for the upcoming season. 

Lots of great players redevelop themselves during their careers.  Hopefully, Ream and Hector can redevelop themselves into the players that Fulham and Scotty need to get the job done at this level.  So, come Saturday come what may I will support the players that don the shirt and wear the badge. 

Yes, and it makes me think that we may well need Ream there against Arsenal to help Hector through the match.

Incidently, did any player  start more games for us last season than Ream.