I hope Parker can avoid the pitfalls...

[ByTheRiver]

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then? Because if we immediately disqualify the opinion of a player that has been part of it all, then surely no one on here is in the least qualified either?

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then? Because if we immediately disqualify the opinion of a player that has been part of it all, then surely no one on here is in the least qualified either?

Here's a thought, maybe several things can be wrong at the same time. One person doing a below par job does not exclude that other persons are also failing. This includes TK, Coaches, players etc. Even if TK has allegedly failed to bring in the right players it doesn't mean that the coaches and players then get a free pass. They are paid handsomely to do a job. Jokanovic was dealt a bad hand, and played it badly in the PL in my opinion. The game should not have been over though, but apparently TK thought that the main problem was the manager, and as a reward he got his pants pulled down by the absolutely clueless Ranieri. Hopefully that at least taught him something.

This year it is far too early to tell in my opinion, especially since the transfer window is open for another 2 weeks. However, if we take the game against Leeds in isolation I would put the blame mostly on the players since there were several occassions were they as professionals absolutely should have done better. The tactics worked, we were better than our opponent and yet we have nothing to show for it. In the broader perspective that may be blamed on TK but several of those players are able to play better than they did on the day. We had enough to beat Leeds, we were set up in a way that allowed us to beat them, and yet we didn't.

In my opinion.   

Some fair points. To address briefly.

Kev - yes, of course, but you simplify my point. He also made contradictary comments about Ranieri. So his word is not gospel and as with all employees in any industry, will always have gripes. It's the nature of the beast.

Well, that's the thing. Maybe Slavisa wasn't perfect (almost certainly) but I stand by my comment on a different thread, I don't think there is a mangaer in the history of world football that would have kept that team up dealt the same hand. The fact that, as you point out, TK felt it was down to the manager (or certainly a large portion), that was then proven to be incorrect when he brought in a 'risk free' premier league winner who also couldn't make a purse from a pigs ear or however the syaing goes.

And yes, I agree re. the weekend. The team on the field should have done better. It was Leeds rather than one of the elite. It was a game we could have expected points from without any recruitment. But it certainly would have helped.

I don't want to go round and round the same stuff and I don't think we are a million miles away in viewpoint (most on this board tbh, it's just slight differences with where the finger points for the lions share of the blame). I should also point out again that I have no bad bones with TK. I defended him over and above Parker last year (who I felt underperformed with the resources given, agaisnt the resources of the competition). I sway whichever way is best for the club. I posted on here immediately after Brentford (well, once I had cleaned the beer off the front room floor and my hair)  - 'Parker has earnt the right to manage the team next year. He needs to be given the full season and the resources he needs to have a fair crack'. I am frustrated as I don't feel he has been given this yet.

As you say, there is still time, this Marlon chap could certainly help. We all live in hope and want the best for the club ultimately (otherwise we wouldn't waste our team talking what essentially amounts to nonsense on here all day and night).

[toshes mate]

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then?

That would seem to be the most senior person at the Club.

[copthornemike]

On another post I made a point of comparing our starting XI vs Sean Dyche's Burnley. On paper ours lookef superior. So our coaching team has to take some responsibility - we do not have the weakest starting XI or squad.

[Sting of the North]

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then?

That would seem to be the most senior person at the Club.

Does it have to be only one person? Agree though that the ones best placed to assess the situation must have a senior role at the club. Best qualified, don't know about that. It may be so unfortunate that there is no one particularly qualified to analyse the situation of those well placed to do so. Hopefully I am wrong on that.

But I believe Kmac is better placed and qualified than most of us, but worse than for example Parker.

[Sting of the North]

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then? Because if we immediately disqualify the opinion of a player that has been part of it all, then surely no one on here is in the least qualified either?

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then? Because if we immediately disqualify the opinion of a player that has been part of it all, then surely no one on here is in the least qualified either?

Here's a thought, maybe several things can be wrong at the same time. One person doing a below par job does not exclude that other persons are also failing. This includes TK, Coaches, players etc. Even if TK has allegedly failed to bring in the right players it doesn't mean that the coaches and players then get a free pass. They are paid handsomely to do a job. Jokanovic was dealt a bad hand, and played it badly in the PL in my opinion. The game should not have been over though, but apparently TK thought that the main problem was the manager, and as a reward he got his pants pulled down by the absolutely clueless Ranieri. Hopefully that at least taught him something.

This year it is far too early to tell in my opinion, especially since the transfer window is open for another 2 weeks. However, if we take the game against Leeds in isolation I would put the blame mostly on the players since there were several occassions were they as professionals absolutely should have done better. The tactics worked, we were better than our opponent and yet we have nothing to show for it. In the broader perspective that may be blamed on TK but several of those players are able to play better than they did on the day. We had enough to beat Leeds, we were set up in a way that allowed us to beat them, and yet we didn't.

In my opinion.   

Some fair points. To address briefly.

Kev - yes, of course, but you simplify my point. He also made contradictary comments about Ranieri. So his word is not gospel and as with all employees in any industry, will always have gripes. It's the nature of the beast.

Well, that's the thing. Maybe Slavisa wasn't perfect (almost certainly) but I stand by my comment on a different thread, I don't think there is a mangaer in the history of world football that would have kept that team up dealt the same hand. The fact that, as you point out, TK felt it was down to the manager (or certainly a large portion), that was then proven to be incorrect when he brought in a 'risk free' premier league winner who also couldn't make a purse from a pigs ear or however the syaing goes.

And yes, I agree re. the weekend. The team on the field should have done better. It was Leeds rather than one of the elite. It was a game we could have expected points from without any recruitment. But it certainly would have helped.

I don't want to go round and round the same stuff and I don't think we are a million miles away in viewpoint (most on this board tbh, it's just slight differences with where the finger points for the lions share of the blame). I should also point out again that I have no bad bones with TK. I defended him over and above Parker last year (who I felt underperformed with the resources given, agaisnt the resources of the competition). I sway whichever way is best for the club. I posted on here immediately after Brentford (well, once I had cleaned the beer off the front room floor and my hair)  - 'Parker has earnt the right to manage the team next year. He needs to be given the full season and the resources he needs to have a fair crack'. I am frustrated as I don't feel he has been given this yet.

As you say, there is still time, this Marlon chap could certainly help. We all live in hope and want the best for the club ultimately (otherwise we wouldn't waste our team talking what essentially amounts to nonsense on here all day and night).

Agree mostly with this. Disagree that there was no way of us staying up though. As others have mentioned, Slavisa managed to turn things around in the second half of the previous two seasons albeit under less difficult circumstances. But now instead of having to turn it around to be one of the best teams, he would just have had to avoid being one of the worst for the last two thirds or so of the season. I believe he might have done it, but we will of course never know. That is of course on TK. I don't think the work by TK in the 2018 summer was that bad (actually believe most signings made sense, other than signing 2 goalkeepers), but the squad that entered that summer made it almost impossible given how many loans we had and what a small squad we started with. TKs chance would have been to let Slavisa work his magic, but unfortunately as we know TK blew that chance just because he got too scared of the early signs.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. COYW  082.gif

[ByTheRiver]

On another post I made a point of comparing our starting XI vs Sean Dyche's Burnley. On paper ours lookef superior. So our coaching team has to take some responsibility - we do not have the weakest starting XI or squad.

I think this is part of what would need to be a much wider and longer discussion. You are right, to an extent, of course, but I would say it's more that their squad is better matched for the tactics they want to play, and then that the tactics they want to play are a better match for surviving in this league with the means at their disposal.

[toshes mate]

So who would be qualified to assess what has gone and is still going wrong then?

That would seem to be the most senior person at the Club.

Does it have to be only one person? Agree though that the ones best placed to assess the situation must have a senior role at the club. Best qualified, don't know about that. It may be so unfortunate that there is no one particularly qualified to analyse the situation of those well placed to do so. Hopefully I am wrong on that.

But I believe Kmac is better placed and qualified than most of us, but worse than for example Parker.

I am sorry but I don't believe in the context KMc was speaking it counts as anything other than rhetoric.  He also called Ranieri a clown I do believe although that may have been my universal translator having a bad day.  Parker is also in an awkward situation in that he cannot afford to damage any relationship he has especially in a way that will disturb team/squad spirit. 

The truth is often a long way away from what we are asked to believe.  When the senior guy acts however then we pay attention and don't necessarily put the numbers together correctly simply because we are not always supposed to.  I disagreed with Jokanovic's sacking (both method and context) and would argue that the outcome would have been better had he been given the whole season rather than what actually transpired.  Of course I cannot prove what I believe about Jokanovic but I can say it would certainly have been better than what did transpire and may have had several added benefits even if we had been relegated.  For starters we wouldn't have had three managers in one season and a disrupted dressing room for all the wrong reasons.     

We can all pick best fits to suit our search for evidence and I am as guilty as anyone else who does it.   But in a Forum like this you counter specious claims with facts i.e. what actually happened and yet you still find people arguing about the relevance of those facts and trying to cover up the dirtier side of business as if it doesn't go on.  It goes on especally when A is trying to protect B for all the wrong reasons. 

[Matt10]

Tonight's match is exactly what I was talking about in the OP of this thread.

Parker has yet again gone down the path of changing for the sake of change. From system that the team has never put on the pitch before - a 3-4-3....really? To misunderstanding that crosses into the box is as obvious as can be - and it's no surprise Mitro's headers were all contested and pressured.

versus Arsenal, our traditional set up, held our own but it was Arsenal and our first match of the season.

versus Leeds, second match, because they run a man marking defense, he opts to replace slower pace players - not to mention Odoi playing LCB. New keeper, new RB, new RCM - no captain Cairney on the pitch.

versus Villa, third match, all of a sudden we go to a 3-4-3 in which he's placed our advanced wingbacks to stay up pitch to serve crosses in very obvious fashion to one target in the box. In addition, we're countered to death and exposed due to all the space in front of the 3 center backs.

I understand we need a left center back - because Ream played terrible right? Wrong. We need a center back, that's a given. We need our manager to bring consistency so his players can succeed even more though. I admire his bravery - but these are the pitfalls that Slav went through. You know it's so bad when noone can even predict the lineup anymore.