Tosin error/s

[ALG01]

In each of the last three games he has made bad errors.
I do not think his age is a factor, they werew schoolboy style.

Do I think he is a good player, Yes
Should he play the next game, yes
I feel sure he will have llearned from it.
Time to let this subject  go, he doesn't need to be defended, he needs to be his best.
I think we are better with him than without and suspect he will become a very good long term addition to the squad.

Genuinely just out of curiosity, what errors did he make in the Leeds game as I can't remember him making one of the top of my head.

Well whilst he is not the main culprit for their second he had the opportunity to put it away for a corner but simple fluffs the chance.

the first though he does not mark  bamford properly. Robinson is calling him but he does not watch him but ball watcjhes instead, it wasn't good.

so both goals he could and should have done better.

Ok thanks for answering, but I don't think you can call the first goal an 'error' on Tosin's part. He's marking his man and when Bamford hits the ball Tosin is right by him. Let's be frank, Bamford has hit that extremely well to strike it so cleanly first time. If he's going to hit that well first time then there is not much to be done.

The error in that goal has already happened, two markers on one player have let him go at the throw in to allow Harrison to put the ball in. That's an error.



With the second goal, I think you're being a bit harsh.

He does go in with his wrong foot to make the tackle but he is dealing with a winger with exceptionally quick feet and Raphinha manages to shift the ball slightly away from him. Add to the fact Tosin is already in a 2 v 1 situation as Andersen has already gone to ground.

I said not the main culprit for the second but surely the attempt to clear the ball was less than imporessive. The more I see it the worse it gets.
The first is very poor marking because bamford is behind him and so is already on the move when he comes near post so tosin is stationary. That was not good.

You asked my opinion I told you.
Personally i think Tosin is a great asset and has had many brillian tgames, his distributoion does need attention though.

We need him at his very best and to gloss over the errors is an error.

I hope scott does not do anything silly like drop him for friday, I think he should be playing...

[Whitesideup]

In reply to Alg01 and the second Leeds' goal - I too wondered whether Tosin could have made a challenge, and the answer is probably yes. However, we have to remember that against City a tight challenge with minimal contact led to a penalty. He may have thought missing the ball could also result in a red card depending on the ref's interpretation of how likely it was he would get the ball. "Double jeopardy" (ie no red card for denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity) only applies when the ref interprets the challenge as a genuine attempt for the ball and accidental contact with the player. The judgement call, whether to dive in for the ball or not, was made in a split second.

There is no doubt in my mind that Tosin has had a very good season, with a couple of important errors in the last couple of weeks, but I hope that does not consign him to the bench .. or worse. But he will learn from the experiences and realize that the highest level of concentration and decision-making is required for the whole game.

[simplyfulham]

In each of the last three games he has made bad errors.
I do not think his age is a factor, they werew schoolboy style.

Do I think he is a good player, Yes
Should he play the next game, yes
I feel sure he will have llearned from it.
Time to let this subject  go, he doesn't need to be defended, he needs to be his best.
I think we are better with him than without and suspect he will become a very good long term addition to the squad.

Genuinely just out of curiosity, what errors did he make in the Leeds game as I can't remember him making one of the top of my head.

Well whilst he is not the main culprit for their second he had the opportunity to put it away for a corner but simple fluffs the chance.

the first though he does not mark  bamford properly. Robinson is calling him but he does not watch him but ball watcjhes instead, it wasn't good.

so both goals he could and should have done better.

Ok thanks for answering, but I don't think you can call the first goal an 'error' on Tosin's part. He's marking his man and when Bamford hits the ball Tosin is right by him. Let's be frank, Bamford has hit that extremely well to strike it so cleanly first time. If he's going to hit that well first time then there is not much to be done.

The error in that goal has already happened, two markers on one player have let him go at the throw in to allow Harrison to put the ball in. That's an error.



With the second goal, I think you're being a bit harsh.

He does go in with his wrong foot to make the tackle but he is dealing with a winger with exceptionally quick feet and Raphinha manages to shift the ball slightly away from him. Add to the fact Tosin is already in a 2 v 1 situation as Andersen has already gone to ground.

I said not the main culprit for the second but surely the attempt to clear the ball was less than imporessive. The more I see it the worse it gets.
The first is very poor marking because bamford is behind him and so is already on the move when he comes near post so tosin is stationary. That was not good.

You asked my opinion I told you.
Personally i think Tosin is a great asset and has had many brillian tgames, his distributoion does need attention though.

We need him at his very best and to gloss over the errors is an error.

I hope scott does not do anything silly like drop him for friday, I think he should be playing...

Yeah I'm not having a go, I actually tried to change the wording of my post because I thought it came across a bit pointy which was unintended. Just wanted to debate the point about his errors which I've probably bored you to tears with by now.

The first goal isn't poor marking, it really isn't. If Tosin was behind Bamford then people would be screaming that he should have been infront of his man to make a challenge. Why not have a go at Andersen for not blocking off the near post cross if we're covering all errors?

The biggest errors occur elsewhere in both goals.

I find the comments from several members about his distribution a bit weird as numbers wise he makes more passes and is more successful in those passes than Andersen. So I don't get why it's seen as a big weakness in his game when they're basically the same.

[WindyCity]

How much of it do you think is illusionary?

None.  I've got eyes.  (That work reasonably well)  I've watched all the games, and I think my observations are accurate.  I note others in this discussion also agree that Tosin can look unsure of himself with the ball at his feet.  Mind you, all I'm suggesting here is that he needs to work on that part of his game.  He is and can be a good footballer.

[WindyCity]

Fans not beating players up every time they make a mistake may mean they stay. Tosin will be one of the best defenders outside the Big Six Clubs in five years, fans need to work to keep him.

I think this observation is misplaced a bit.  All these guys are highly paid, professional athletes.  Yeah, I know, I know, they're human beings too.  That said, professional athletes need to have thick skin.  They can easily take the adulation when things are going well, but they also need to realize that when things are not going well the heat will come.  They have to be able to manage that.  It's not up to fans to keep Tosin here, it's up to Tosin to keep Tosin here, assuming we wants to be in this team.

[simplyfulham]

How much of it do you think is illusionary?

None.  I've got eyes.  (That work reasonably well)  I've watched all the games, and I think my observations are accurate.  I note others in this discussion also agree that Tosin can look unsure of himself with the ball at his feet.  Mind you, all I'm suggesting here is that he needs to work on that part of his game.  He is and can be a good footballer.

If you're confident in your observations and if Tosin looks, as you say "unsure of himself on the ball moving forward looking to make a pass" how would you account for 86% passing accuracy compared to Andersen's 83%?

[alfie]

Don't muck about with the ball in defence, it's as simple as that. All this passing back to the goalkeeper and trying to play out of defence will never work for us.

Well unless someone moves into space to receive the ball further forward, back passing is the only option,

[Karlos]

I feel sorry for Tosin, our constant passing backwqrds means he is put in these situations far too often.

Yes he has made mistakes but would bet a lot of other players would too if they're constantly getting the ball on the back foot.

As much as I think possession based is the best way we need to stop putting our team under so much pressure at the back and play forward more

[The Rational Fan]

Fans not beating players up every time they make a mistake may mean they stay. Tosin will be one of the best defenders outside the Big Six Clubs in five years, fans need to work to keep him.

I think this observation is misplaced a bit.  All these guys are highly paid, professional athletes.  Yeah, I know, I know, they're human beings too.  That said, professional athletes need to have thick skin.  They can easily take the adulation when things are going well, but they also need to realize that when things are not going well the heat will come.  They have to be able to manage that.  It's not up to fans to keep Tosin here, it's up to Tosin to keep Tosin here, assuming we wants to be in this team.

One day in the not too distant future, Tosin will get a marginally better offer from a bigger club. If he has a thick skin, he won't care about whether the fans love him or torture him, he will take the offer.

If he has a thin skin and the fans touch his heart with love, he will think twice about leaving Fulham (unless the offer is awesome). Tosin relationship with the club and fans will be critical to his decision.

[WolverineFFC]

He needs a rest to work on some arears, bring in Kongolo for a game. These mistakes are not a one off.

I agree, his form has been off since the Burnley game. There are several errors since which have led to goals. Sometimes a player needs time on the bench for motivation and this needs to occur with Tosin. The obvious concern is Kongolo has not done much competitively in over a year. A risk to bring him in but the manager needs to take a few risks at this point for survival.

[WolverineFFC]

Here is my go at explaining away the second Villa goal. Tosin makes a mistake, I'm not denying that, but I think it's an understandable one in the circumstances and there are several small mistakes that have already happened before Tosin has received the ball.



Tosin's first thought when he receives the ball from Lemina is can I get it to Aina. He's also made a judgement that he knows roughly where Watkins is and given how quick Watkins is, he makes a judgement that he can't risk the ball back to Areola in case it's intercepted.

It's worth noting that Villa press really well this season and we basically just forgot about that. They press very well here high up where RLC is pressed by McGinn (?), Aina is pressed by Traore and Tosin is pressed by Davis all while Watkins is lurking in between our centre halves. Villa are set up in a very good position.

Tosin's makes the mistake of getting the angle wrong as he tries to take the ball away from Davis and misjudging how quickly Davis is closing him.



For me RLC makes two key errors in the build up to their goal, Aina maybe makes a slightly bad decision but an understandable one but there is a question of why the midfield 3 are so deep yet our backline are very high.

RLC receives the ball from a knockdown from Reed. Initially he's under little pressure but a very poor first touch allows the Villa player to close him and harry him. He has two options on the ball from here as he begins to dribble into a crowded area in the middle of the pitch - 1. Play the ball out wide into the space that Tete is moving into unmarked or 2. Play to Lemina's feet who with Trezeguet (the goalscorer) close behind him.

Tete has left the player he's marking, but he's done so to get into space to receive the ball. Aina has made the opposite decision, he could make the run in behind Traore to find space or pull Traore away. I think both decisions are valid but both have obvious consequences. |

RLC should have played the ball out to Tete but he is not good enough to have picked out his run.

Excellent frames. There is a lot to say regarding Fulham's struggles this season to me in those two images, but I will keep it simple.

1) Tosin's languid passing makes him susceptible to these quick presses. My opinion is many of the opposition manager's have started to pick this out tactically which is part of the uptick in his errors. The other issue, which I don't fault him for, is his lack of confidence in his left foot. In that scenario, ideally he puts it on his left and drives it forward for Mitro. He just can't do it. 

2) The only player in the RLC frame running with him is Reed, who actually runs into the space he is driving towards. Contrast that to how many of the Villa players are moving. Fulham's attack this season has been so static. Too many guys constantly looking for the ball to feet and not enough players moving in to space and creating passing lanes for their teammates.

[ALG01]

I said not the main culprit for the second but surely the attempt to clear the ball was less than imporessive. The more I see it the worse it gets.
The first is very poor marking because bamford is behind him and so is already on the move when he comes near post so tosin is stationary. That was not good.

You asked my opinion I told you.
Personally i think Tosin is a great asset and has had many brillian tgames, his distributoion does need attention though.

We need him at his very best and to gloss over the errors is an error.

I hope scott does not do anything silly like drop him for friday, I think he should be playing...
[/quote]

Yeah I'm not having a go, I actually tried to change the wording of my post because I thought it came across a bit pointy which was unintended. Just wanted to debate the point about his errors which I've probably bored you to tears with by now.

The first goal isn't poor marking, it really isn't. If Tosin was behind Bamford then people would be screaming that he should have been infront of his man to make a challenge. Why not have a go at Andersen for not blocking off the near post cross if we're covering all errors?

The biggest errors occur elsewhere in both goals.

I find the comments from several members about his distribution a bit weird as numbers wise he makes more passes and is more successful in those passes than Andersen. So I don't get why it's seen as a big weakness in his game when they're basically the same.
[/quote]

I am pleased to have a proper sensible conversation at last regardoing football.
If Tosin was behind bamford then yes it would have been worse but he had to be aware and IMO, alongside a nd ready for that obvious run. I did look at anderson but I think he was probably in the right spot.

Tosin makes loads of passes that a 'safe' I do not count thoise. His distribuution when hitting a longer or more  adventurous type pass are not all that. Anderson attempts and succedes often enough with longer range passing.  In that respect he is a more matuyre and generally more accomplished player. I do not think they are about the same in the passing department.

In the end I said often enough, despite being critical of his last few games we are way better with Tosin than without and want him selected, but playing at his best. Let us hope he finally gets his head on a corner or free kick and gets the poal he actually derves and some well deserved praise as well!.

[Jim©]

What really annoys me about Tosin is that he hadn't learnt from his error v man city. CLEAR THE BALL.
If and it's a big if, he'd cleared that ball  v Villa, we could quite conceivably be out of the relegation zone. I don't agree with the "He couldn't go back to Areola" view. Get rid of the ball and get back in and protect your lead.

I think it was a huge huge moment in our season when we were 12 minutes away from a huge 3 points.
I hope he's learnt from his mistake now, and should 100% play on Friday.

[WindyCity]

How much of it do you think is illusionary?

None.  I've got eyes.  (That work reasonably well)  I've watched all the games, and I think my observations are accurate.  I note others in this discussion also agree that Tosin can look unsure of himself with the ball at his feet.  Mind you, all I'm suggesting here is that he needs to work on that part of his game.  He is and can be a good footballer.

If you're confident in your observations and if Tosin looks, as you say "unsure of himself on the ball moving forward looking to make a pass" how would you account for 86% passing accuracy compared to Andersen's 83%?

I wouldn't say Tosin and Andersen are near equal quality in regards to passing accuracy.  I wouldn't go by those percentages you point out.  I don't think there is any question who can deliver better, and longer accurate passes.  Not even close.